MJ

This might go into the humor section, but given the pace, Hye Forum may turn into Humor Forum, anyway, so it may go in any tread, I guess: "We can make them [saddam and other regime members] listen to rap music 24 hours a day until he absolutely goes out of his mind," former CIA operative Wayne Simmons told Fox News. "The key is, we don't want to go that way," but interrogators will want to establish a personal relationship with Saddam to make sure he responds to questions and, among other things, make sure at least one interrogator is fluent in Arabic. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105985,00.html

September-October.

To get back to your question, I do think that Armenia had the best chance of survival then. It had 60,000 best trained and experienced army in the region - that was the first guarantee. Second, Turkey was the first country in 1918 to recognize Armenia's independence. Third, Russia, for a while (1919), was interested in helping Armenia to get a special status resembling that of Finland and this was directly offered to the Armenian government, to which, the Armenian delegation headed by the famous writer Shant (isn’t it interesting that almost all leaders of Armenia at the time were poets, writers, publicists…?). Armenian government’s response was, “Great Britan is promising us Armenia from the See to the See – “Dzovits Dzov Haiastan.”) Basically, by taking such a stupid posture and claiming what would never be realistically possible nor in the interests of the Republic, Armenia took itself out of the map – at least as far as Russia was concerned. In 1919 Severs came through – the most devastating and stupid idiocy every proposed to Armenia. This treaty basically forced the collapse of any potential unity that one might have hoped for from the Armenian side. The Armenian political leadership split into two – those favoring Severs and those opposed. It is noteworthy that while living under the Ottoman rule for centuries, Armenians had always pledged loyalty, but after being almost annihilated and practically entirely deported, over the sadden the same forces which had comfortably always collaborated with Ottoman Turks and had completely pushed under the rug the aspirations of Armenia’s liberation, became vociferous advocates of Severs Treaty. It is noteworthy to mention that one of the former prime ministers of Armenia, Kachaznuni, then had said something like this: “If we gather all Armenians from all over the world, hold each others’ hands and line up on the borders of the proposed territory [by the Severs Treaty], we cannot even cover the perimeters of the land.” The government of Armenia had failed to control the territories under its ‘control’ (be it Kars, Nakhichevan, Kharabag, Zangezur or Djavakhq), but was opting for more which was not even in Armenia’s national security interests. Furthermore, what the Armenian leadership had demonstrated was that given the opportunity, Armenian’s are not much different from Turks and may be as cruel. I will not go into details on this subject for now. Pretty much even the allies of Armenia had gotten fed up by the Armenian government, its criminal endeavors, inability to maintain law and order, inability to govern the country, and so on. In about one year, from being a model country Armenia had turned herself into nuisance and liability for others. Basically everyone turned their faces away from Armenia. It is further to be noted that they had succeeded in demoralizing the best army of the region and were busy with the plundering of the enormous foreign aid that Armenia had received – be it cash or food. (Slightly departing from the main topic, I’d like to bring an interesting fact to your attention: During the elections, the government representatives were traveling into the villages and offering sugar, flour, etc, for the vote of the presents. Haven’t wee seen the same this year?) Perhaps I can continue at a later time.

1. No. I don't think so. But it is past midnight, here, and I need to go to bed. 2. I guess, you may say so.

Believe me, I haven't forgotten anything - I remember everything that was essential. And you can go and tell such fables to your unfortunate children - and that before they would have the capacity to inquire for their own.

Dear Arpa, To me, the spelling of “Dashnak” as “Tashnak” is not the worst part of his username. That is an innocent illiteracy. The problem is with the part spelled as “Zinvor.” Just when have ever (except in one instance of chasing the running for their lives Turkish solders in Bash Aparan) Dashnaks have earned the right of being called Zinvor? Isn’t the right word “Mardaspan?” When have they shed blood other than of civilians and, more frequently, Armenia civilians and that by slitting their throats with a shaving blade? And yes, I forgot… How about killing millions of Turks on the Internet?

1. I don’t know if it necessarily attests to the fact of the lack of national consciousness, though, in a proper sense of the word, it certainly was in deficit. The fact of the matter is that while the First Republic of Armenian had evolved with huge leaps since the day of her establishment, effective sometime mid-1919 the downfall of Armenia had started. The Severes treaty was the most destructive thing for her future. Her government had totally failed to define a coherent policy and strategy, had certainly demonstrated that the yoke on Armenian people by an Armenian government was no preferential to the yoke of Turks or Russians, had failed to lead the country, had already started to plunder what little there was, had gotten tangled in admittedly very complicated regional politics and had no purpose. Other than pompous speeches it had not accomplished much. After all, what would you expect from a party, which was opposed to the independence of Armenia in the first place? 2. Even by 1992 or in 1992, Ashot knew that he had no chance to be elected president. He also knew that just for running he would be chastised and ridiculed on a personal level. However, two years earlier he (along with his friends and comrades) had established a new political party (the first national party in the history of Armenia to be established on the soil of Armenia and the first and last national political party formally registered in the former USSR on the territory of USSR), for which V. Manoukyan once said, “you guys just pulled away the most delicious piece of the pie.” Ashot was simply driven by the task of elevating his party’s profile and its transformation from a military-political entity to a political one, for the sake of making a relevant statement for the future and opening the door (as you understand, in few years, his party became the ruling party of Armenia.) Even then, many major political activists/leaders of Armenia were stating, “we know that the power in Armenia will belong to your party in few years of time, but now it is a little early. We all will join you in due time.” Additionally, since his release from the Siberian camps (after spending accumulated 12 years there), he was in terrible health – just going on based on the strength of his spirit - even when defending the borders of Armenia with AK in his hands, fighting Soviet Army in outskirts of Yerevan or Nakhicevan or participating in the liberation of Karabagh. By 1996 his health had only deteriorated more, he was tired of everything, discouraged and depressed by the troubling developments in Armenia, had realized that things had not evolved according to his dreams, was aware of his inability to change the course of events and so on. There was no rationale for him to run in 1996. Furthermore, all he wanted for him, personally, was to go home and lie in bed to take care of his shuddered health and finally spend some time with his family. Besides, the base that he would’ve liked to have around him and rely on was either six feet under, or out of country or denigrated. He gradually became a lonely voice in a desert. By 1996, Armenia was a whole different country than it was in 1992 – a lot had changed for the worst and the worst predictions of 1990 had materialized. He could not bear what was going on in Armenia – in particular her plundering. He was also already isolated, even though formally he was still the chairman of the party he had established. In 1998 he passed away from what is suggested to be heart failure.

1. I disagree with this. It is factually inaccurate. No "disagreement" has cost us Kars... It has been resulted from a simple demoralization and treason from a government and governing party, which was opposed to Armenia's independence in the first place and had done enough in short two years to be hated by her own people. 2. Was it 1996 or 1992?

How about @mpugh?

Used to be. Had enough of it, though. And I agree with your last points, too. I cannot tell you much about the constitution of 1918 - haven't seen nor am aware of the existence of such. However, the structure of the First Republic was a good one - a parliamentarian system with direct elections, with a prime-minister assigned by the winning party. Through, in such systems governments change frequently, as it has happened with the First Republic (in the 2 year period of its existence, Armenia has had 5 or 6 prime-ministers and governments - from the same party.) But I don't think it is bad - if the given government cannot perform, it has to go. If it loses its trust with eh people, it has to go. If the reality dictates change of polices, the presiding government has to go. I know some would say that such system may lack stability and continuation. But as I have once written somewhere, the desirable stability and continuity are not manifested through the preservation of the same government but through smooth passage of power from one elected official/body to another.

The institute of presidency is the biggest flaw of Armenian constitution. In a small country like Armenia, where there is no tradition of checks and balances and no tradition of independent judiciary there cannot be more dangerous institution than that. In early 90's the presidency of Armenia was created for one person - to suit his needs and to perpetuate the prevailing at the time status quo. The next person came to like it, too, since it gave him the leverage to screw the country further and destroy its barely breathing political culture and paralyze the rest of the institutions of statehoods. Today, in Armenia, there is no shred of judicial system and the parliament is a mere formality or nuisance for some. In my view, the system established in 1918-1920 was and still is the best structure of Armenia's governance. How can one get back to it, I don't know. It would be very hard to change it, though. However, I think so far as the current system (which is basically a mixture of German and French systems) prevails, there cannot be a serious hope for a balanced political life in Armenia.

That's about 60 years...

US, practically, has never been a pure capitalistic country (at least in the last 60 years) in the textbook sense of the word. Its system is one of mixed capitalism with fairly high degree of state regulations.

Sip, I am just inviting you to look at the issues with a little bit more seriousness (not that I am insinuating non-seriousness from you.) There were two highly televised wars wit Iraq in the last decade or so. Did you see any US made weaponry in Iraq's possession or would you think that anytime the cameramen came across them, they turned the camera away" Just a rhetoric question to make a point. From all the reports I have seen, prior or around early 80s, US has sold some very limited number of helicopters to Iraq and no one has presented any other statistics or evidence on the opposite so far. Perhaps this is enough from psychopaths to experience verbal diarrhea. I would say, just let it go. This forum is steadily turning into a Trash Bin, and apparently that is its future. Edited by Sasun

So, Sip, what arms has US given to Iraq according to you?

I understand. But this observation (and I am talking only about the letters as symbols/characters) easily identifies the large number of similarities between the letters of both alphabets... And one does not have to be a sophisticated geometer to notice it nor the transformations are to any degree complicated or many - few simple things transform one to another. With Chinese - that would be an uphill battle, I think.

... meant to say rotation by 90 degrees and perhaps axial symmetry, sometimes with a couple of extra such geometric operations.

As to the symbols of Armenian alphabet being similar to latin alphabet (for example), I think it would be hard to deny. Pretty much every Armenian letter is a transformation of a corresponding latin one, when the latter has similar sound. If the letters of Armenian alphabet were written with matches, for example, it would be a simple exercise to do a couple of simple transformations such as turn it around by 90 degrees adn misplace one match, and you would get the corresponding latin letter. The moral is... Mashtots was a smoker... and Armenians had invented cigarets, first...

Yes…and Elvys is alive…

The word “inkatir” was the standard in [Eastern] Armenian language for decades – way before the development of the airplanes with reactive engine (propellerless planes.) I am all for “language police.” The first polices should be the Armenian mothers. The need for this kind of policing in Armenia was recognized in early 1970s, I think. At the time there was some “Committee of Armenian Language” under the auspices of the Institute of Language of the Academia of Sciences. Just look at the way Armenian is spoken around – especially in places like Glendale. It is horrific… “Aghchi, satkats, yes kezi shat karotel em…” If there was no “policing” at the time, following Kh. Abovian, we would have still used the word “shat” as Armenian word for time – “zhamanak.” I can bring many other examples such as “smetan.” Certainly some academicians are more academician then others – like in every other platitude of life. In the past, we have had good traditions – from Atjaryan and on. It is hard to believe that we cannot have it further on – it is just a matter of realizing the disaster that Armenian language is facing due to the lack of maintenance of proper standards. The problem is not only with the language but the whole culture altogether.

Helicopter is "ughghatir." When hearing that word, my sould does not protest. I think it is a better translation, though it is a direct implementation from the Russian language.

I totally agree with this argument. However, there is also another problem - when people "translate into Armenian" some foreign words in a very non-Armenian way. A perfect example is the word "inknatir" from the Russian word "samoliot" (airplane.) And this when there is a perfect word for it in Armenian - "otanav/odanav." Furthermore, there are some pathetic and cheesy words borrowed from other languages which have become inseparable fixtures of Armenian mainstream culture, as tasteless as they are, while one would not use their Armenian equivalents in a similar context. An example is the word "djan," i.e. "enker djan." As Tomanian mentions in one of his publicistic articles, this word, when translated from Persian, means "hogiaks." In an everyday context, when you go around and say "enker, hogiaks," you would be just ridiculed or the other person may feel offended.

THe only point that I would want to make at this time would be addressed to the moderators and it would be something that I would not put in writing in here. But I am sure they would get it.

If we were to compete on the grounds of the knowledge of Western Armenian Language or Literature, I can assure that you would not be the one to shine under a better light. Furthermore, the very fact of the evolution of Grabar to Early Medieval, and then to late Medieval Western Armenian, was due to the fact that outside churches no one could speak Grabar. The rest of your posting is of no interest to me and I will save my time for better endeavors.