MJ

Yes. He he has an impressions that this book is only the tip of the iceberg. In fact, this is also suggested by the author of the book.

And here is its phenomenological definition: http://armenians.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimat...c&f=10&t=000040

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: How about "wassup, dude ?", Armenian or not ? Dudes and Armenians? Nooh.

quote:Originally posted by Boghos: Yes, you can only tell Armenians from non-Armenians in the US when people use hello instead . or "Wassaup, man?"

If to judg by that measure, everybody in the US is Armenian.

Dear Taguhi, There are a lot of last names ending with "ian," which have nothing to do with Armenians.

Artsax head says it should unite with Armenia or go independent Russian news agency Interfax 29 May 2001 Stepanakert The head of the unrecognized Nagornyy Artsax Republic Arkadiy Gukasyan, is for the republic's participation in the talks on the future of Artsax, he declared at a news conference in Stepanakert on Tuesday [29 May]. "The dialogue between the presidents of Armenia and Azerbaijan has brought important elements into the settlement process, but today it is necessary to include Nagornyy Artsax in the talks," he said. He ruled out the submission of Nagornyy Artsax to Azerbaijan since that variant, in his view, "would sooner or later cause the situation to explode". The way to peace and stability lies through either recognizing the independence of Nagornyy Artsax or uniting it with Armenia." Gukasyan expressed doubts regarding the chances in signing an agreement on a final settlement by the end of this year, as many questions, in his opinion, have not been resolved.

Later... [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

quote:Originally posted by naira: Hi, MJ! It's been a long time. Nice to see you back. I thought to hear some coquettish answers. Your coquettish look actually reminds me someone... ... How bad, I feel like I look into the mirror! Do you think you are really a therapist? Maybe we have met in the past - what do you know? Therefore, don't beat me, please... Yes, I do think. But only a shock therapist.

Dear Naira, Come again, please... (let me see if I may also be coquettish ).

A forum moderator.

Berj, I understand your premise, however, don't see how does it relive Russia from its share of responsibility. I also don't see Bolshevism being something non-Russian. It was very Russian, in my view, as I have slightly articulated it before. After all, if Russia may be allowed to alienate itself from the Bolsheviks, then Turkey also should be allowed to alienate itself from the CPU. [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Sorry, sweaty. I am in the middle of an important business discussion, now. Later!

My (deleted) posting has outlived itself. [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Berj, Thanks for the link. But when was the Armenian population of the Eastern provinces of Turkey subjected to extermination? For example, in the province of Erzrum? The chronology you referenced claims:"April - July MIDDLE EAST Turkish massacres of 800,000 (?) Armenians." Somehow it makes an impression that the Gencided was conducted in three months - April-July. It is a little bit arguable in my view. In fact (as much as my facts may be correct), a significant portion of the Armenian population of the eastern provinces was dealth with after the Russian retreat. [ May 30, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Go, girl!

No... It was just dismissive of your other explanations.

BTW, I didn't say that I was insulted, I just suggested that rather than throwing insults around, we should discuss things based on the merits of the arguments.

Your English is very good, Naira. WWI and WWII have started for very serious reasons, I think. Other than the Ethiopia-Eritrea, I am not aware of any regional wars that have started for non-serious reasons, at least in the 20th century. Illuminate me further, please. I haven’t spoken about coincidences. I have just spoken about not taking things out of their proportions. About Kyoto treaty… What you said is not enough for me. Don’t you think that before we call somebody an "idiot" on the grounds of the Kyoto treaty, we ought to study first what the Kyoto treaty was about, whether it was a rational treaty as far as its merits were concerned, and so on? And then, can you cite one country in the world, other than Romania, that has signed it? Additionally, do you know that the Kyoto treaty was overwhelmingly rejected by the US Senate way before Bushes arrival to the office? As to the material on NATO consultations that you have sited in your previous posting, I have to note that it comes to support my arguments. It say that there were some disagreements by France and Germany on the subject of the “language of the proposal,” but over all, the openness of the US administration not to make serious decisions on the subject without consulting the allies was very warmly received. It goes also to say that even Putin may be open to such discussions. It also sites the US allies wishing that the prposed system "doesn't promote further arms race, but adds security." I don't see any contradiction here with what the Europeans claim, and what the US administration is promoting. Therefore, I propose leaving the subject to the specialists, and taking the uninformed rhetoric out of it.

quote:Originally posted by Tornado: Ach zo almost each Azeri with the exception of few which I've met don't like to be associated with the Turks, sometimes you may get in trouble, because once one of them told me online that it is very offensive to them. Also I have noticed menthality differences between the azeri's of the former soviet union and the Iranian Azeri's. the latter say that the former are historically not Azeri but Aranian or Caucasian Albanian, whatever this may be. As a matter of fact, you are right. Azeris of the republic of Azerbaijan are not only mentally, but also ethnically different from those of Iran. In fact, until 1918 they have not even been called Azeris, and there has not ever been any Azerbaijan outside the Iranian borders. This state was created and the name Azeri was given to them for the sole purpose of pealing off the real Azerbaijan from Iran – something that pops up even in our days. Azeris are not Turks. Though, certainly there is some Turkish mixture into their composition. Moreover, while their vocabulary is rather Turkic, the structure of their grammar is not - in fact the structure of their grammar is closer to the Iranian structure, to the best of my knowledge. Their identification with the Turks is one of the most stupid and irrational things that many Armenians do. [ May 29, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

Dear Naira, I am affraid you have misunderstood my last expression. It has ment to be an encouragement - it is not "Go away." Or did I misunderstand your reaction?

If you have learned history, as you said. Most of wars start from small incidents. Any examples? I never actually doubted that you're not relaxed with what's going in Armenia. Otherwise you wouldn't have spent so much time on our discussions here. You wouldn't really have spent so much time on trying to relax me, if you were relaxed Glad to be the therapist I am. Though, by saying you seem kinda dude, calm relaxed about Armenia, I meant that from far its easy for you (as well for me) to define Armenia's internal and foreign policy strategies. And your suggestions, which I find very interesting and I'm sure they make more sense than what's happening in reality in Armenia, are mostly floting on the surface of goodwill than trying to dig into profound of reality to give actually 'reasonable suggestions' for those who face hard days in that suffering country. Those who deal each day with their unfriendly neighborhood and deep economic crisis as from inside as well from outside. Let me disagree with you one more time, please. A couple of postings ago you admitted that what I advocate is pretty much in-line with what the government of Armenia is trying to do. Additionally, what do you want me to do? Hara-kiri? Would that satisfy you? May those of us who have relatively good lives also have the right to express opinions? After all, we are not guilty in the negative developments surrounding Armenia… Or are we? But what reality were you referring to? There are so many levels of reality… To which scope of reality should we confine ourselves? I care less about his level of education. He can be a "diploma" collector. Afterwards I didn't say he doesn't have education, that wasn't the issue. The issue is that he is an "idiot". Why? I have three reasons for calling him that way. I hope it's enough:- 1. The leader of one of world's largest democracies and world's largest economies. Cannont justify the rejection of Kyoto treaty, where the world environment is concerned, by saying we leave an economic crisis. I'm not saying the situation is easy in the USA. Though there is a crisis. Any word said by him is scannered. And saying that we can't sign we have economic problems. It's like let's pollute the air, and when the economy will get better will try to restore. There are things that humans cannot restore. I think you have misheard him. Can you refer me to the speech where he has said that? Additionally, I have expressed my opinion on this subject in our forum in the past (see Energy related issues of our forum). Would refrain from repeating myself. -2. He suggested new anti-missile program (luckily EU declined it). What an ass? Where he'll get money for anti-missile program. At the same time he is the guy who refused to sign Kyoto treaty, because of so-called economic difficulties. Well, he seems to be stuck in Cold War era. I can't imagine you support him, when you talk about demilitarisation of Armenia. Why are you concerned about the American budget, and where they would find money from? Isn’t it his problem? Again, as to Kyoto, where do you get your information from? And how can EU accept or decline a US anti-missile program? Third. When he was governer of Texas, this state was the biggest US 'slaughter-house' (it didn't change either after his departure, but whatever, he is responsible for that as well). During 5 years the State of Texas has executed 152 prisoners. You talk about his education. So what? What his education means to him, did it enrich his poor head? He critises chinese regime, and he behaves like chinese leaders, who execute their prisoners as well. Let me disagree with you, again. The ‘slaughter-house’ Texas may be, is characteristic to Texas and the culture of its population. The absolute majority of US is supportive of the death penalty. Unlike in Russia (and Armenia), in the US, the Judicial, Legislative and Executive branches are separated on both Federal and State levels, in the real sense of the word. The governor of the state has nothing to do with the executions, other than being able to postpone it for a very limited period of time (if not mistaken 24 hours), and even that when recommended to do so by a special independent committee. And even then, he can do it only if there is an evidence that the guilt of the charged is not established beyond the reasonable doubt or the charged has not had adequate access/representation in the courts. By the way, how about his proposal that US may be ready to share the anti-missile defense with Russia and other countries? Why does the anti-missile defense project bother you this much, when I don’t see that the missile projects bother you? Why is this defensive military mechanism so bad, when the offensive ones are OK? No. I don't mean by that the erudition.I've visited many times the USA. I love this country. But I won't live there. I stay in Europe as for now. The reason, why I refused to stay in the US (even for 6 months), is the way US people actually eat, drink, make parties, think, make love and joke. There was a huge cultural shock for me, after dropping by there from Europe (Paris, London, Amsterdam, Berlin). It is just a question of preference. I prefer European culture and education. That doesn't mean that US culture is non-existent or poor. It exists one way for Americans and another way for non-Americans. That’s fine, Naira. But why all this anger? What has US done to you? You don’t like it, you don’t go there… What’s the problem? Education is something for rich mostly. You are so misinformed about it... Do not tell me about computerised classes or science in the US. There are lots of stuff that US doesn't have and Europeans do have in education sector. US economy is rich that's true. But it's poor when you look at general education. All people I met in US, where relatively mid-class americans from 18-35. They knew very-well US. Some, who have been abroad, knew a bit the world. I did have fun with those people, but it's shocking the way they think about existential questions "health" "love" "sex" "drugs". So categoric, intolerant! Boy! Is this an education, when they say why I pay taxes for the one who got cancer because of "smoking". I quit smoking! They should all quit! It may sound rediculous. But that's the education for me. Social awareness. In Europe, if they will discuss the problem with "smoking" they will never bring tax issues in the middle of that talk. It's unwritten moral rule in most of European societies. And this is a part of education, which is brought by many participants: school, government, society, media, family. I should say, Naira, that your views on US are too simplistic and uninformed, and your exposure is so limited... The US is a very diverse country with a population of a very broad spectrum. The American model of life for me will be "born for working", European way "work for living". I don't know if I expressed properly. And the way Americans consume their attitude to the work, the same way they built their education. Fine. Means you don’t fit in that culture. But is that the criterion for judging America and Americans? Well, here... sorry!.. but you sound like...ex-soviet radio-speaker...turn inside-out. This what Bolsheviks would say if they were Americans...Outch! What I'm saying... Instead of throwing insults, could you express yourself on the merits of the issue, please? P.S. BTW, how did all this relate to Armenia and Russia? Especially the Bush-part?

Azerbaijan News Service May 29 2001 NO SECOND ARMENIAN STATE NEAR AZERI BORDERS: PRESIDENT ALIYEV Source:ANS 29.05.01--BAKU--The Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia, Alexiy II was received by President Heydar Aliyev on the Republic Day, Azerbaijan's Independence Day. This caused the Russian Patriarch's special joy which he expressed to the Azeri leader. Alexiy II presented President Aliyev with Saint Daniel Order. After that, Russia's Ambassador to Azerbaijan, Nikolai Ryabov passed to the head of the Azeri state Russian President Vladimir Putin's congratulations on the occasion of the Independence Day. Mr Aliyev rated the Russian Patriarch's first ever visit to Azerbaijan as a momentous event. Touching upon historic relations between Azerbaijan and Russia, the Azeri president noted that although various religions exist in the world, the God is one for all. As for the Armenia-Azerbaijan conflict, President Aliyev noted that the OSCE Minsk Group co-chairs suggested to solve the problem between the two nations' presidents. But Mr Aliyev added that one needs to take into account the fact that the two countries are not on equal terms. Said the Azeri president: «The co-chairs insist three proposals should be accepted. They demand to grant independent status to Nagorno Artsax. There can't be a second Armenian state near Azerbaijan. According to international law, UN and OSCE principles, territorial integrity of any country is untouchable. Armenians want our lands in Nagorno Artsax in exchange for those occupied around this region. It will take 50 years to restore all those occupied lands.» Reminding that he's been conducting meetings with his Armenian counterpart since 1999, President Aliyev noted that meetings of religious leaders sometimes have bigger impact in solution of conflicts than those held between political leaders. The Azeri leader also said a meeting of Azeri and Armenian religious leaders was necessary at Patriarch Alexiy II's initiative. By Natavan Babayeva

PROBABILITY OF WAR STRENGTHENING By Farhad MAMMADOV AZERBAIJAN BULLETIN No:21 (275), May 24 2001 Co-chairs return empty-handed from the trip to the region. The trip of the OSCE Minsk Group's co-chairs to Baku and Yerevan that has begun since May 18th has finished resultless. The main goal of the visit was to prepare the next talks of the Azerbaijani and Armenian presidents planned to be held in Geneva and at the first day of the trip the co-chairs stated that they would try strengthening "the important progress" gained at the Key West talks. It is notable that co-chairs, concretely American co-chair Carry Cavanaugh was very optimistic before the trip to the region and has several times given statements expressing great hope for the settlement of the conflict during this year. Even before the co-chairs' trip to the region, there was spread news on being held of Geneva meeting on June 15 citing on Mr. Cavanaugh. But after their meetings in Baku and Yerevan, as well as in the so-called "Nagorno Artsax Republic", the co-chairs stopped thinking on gaining a peace in near future and left the region empty-handed. And its reason is strong reaction of public opinion to possible compromises both in Azerbaijan and Armenia. In the words of Cavanaugh, the presidents- Heidar Aliev and Robert Kocharian go in the forth of their nation by being ready to compromises. But the nations are far from the idea of adopting the compromises. Naturally, such a peace can not be firm. Mr. Cavanaugh himself confirms it: "To go to concessions for the sake of peace is a dangerous game". After the trip to the region co-chairs have come to such an opinion that there is no use of holding the next stage of talks without agreeing the parties with compromise. This is why, it is not known when and whether the Geneva talks will take place. In fact, the probability of breaking the Azerbaijani-Armenian talks again was strong yet before the trip of co-chairs to the region. Armenian president Kocharian has received the leaders of fraction and groups at the Armenian parliament and informed them of the course of talks after returning back from Key West talks. And a week later after that meeting, fraction and group leaders of the Armenian parliament issued a very aggressive statement and rejected any compromise. According to that statement, Upper Artsax either should be unified to Armenia together with another 2 regions of Azerbaijan or get a status of full independent state. Naturally, the Azerbaijani community did not approach silently to becoming the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the country to an object of compromise at the talks. Major oppositional forces of the country, as well as the entire public opinion regarded as impossible of abstaining from these two principles and called Aliev to come out from this position at the talks, as well. Generally, the method used by co-chairs for the settlement of the conflict was wrong and over 7 years of history of Artsax talks also confirms the impossibility of gaining any positive progress by this method. That method considers that the moderators while knowing Armenia is an occupant party, do not pressure on him, and on the contrary, are trying, indirectly, legalize the military successes of the occupant. Having been lasting the resultless talks for many years and Armenia's use of its military successes as a pressure increase the probability of beginning the war again. Aliev himself has confirmed it, as well. In his meeting with the representatives of the European parliament on May 22, he has confirmed that there has increased dissatisfaction in society with extending Artsax question and stated that "the situation is very dangerous". At last, Aliev has admitted that the impossibility of settling the Artsax conflict without regarding the opinion of the community, as well as opposition. "If Armenia does not go to compromise, then I can not do anything alone. This is why, the probability of war will increase time-by-time".

Yeah.. So much on the topic of the thread, and so full of merits, Alpha.