MosJan

hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 06, 2002 09:44 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Juggernaut, You know NOTHING about the beliefs of the Knights Templar, their pure beliefs in relation to God and the Saints. How DARE you use their battle cry to support your beliefs which are radically different than theirs. Theirs was a pure Christinaty based upon the original teachings of Christ. Yours support the mongrel religion developed by Emperor Constantine and enforeced by the Church hierarchies. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 06, 2002 07:49 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- NO - the statement was meant to be an absolute. You need to put IMO after every sentence you have presented in reply. We no longer live in an insular world where all we know is our local village and its traditions - where we are unexposed to others who think differently and have beautiful, rich traditions of their own. If we are to survive as a species we must get away from the "this is what I believe and it is the absolute truth - everyone else has it wrong....and BTW they are blasphemous and must die" etc) And we must understand our myths, traditions and beliefs in the proper (allegorical and practical contexts..IMO). You might be surprised that I share your uneasiness concerning the changes we are going through and how the unbridaled advances in science are driving cultural change that is both beyond our control and that is even difficult to predict. (and the resultant behavioral problems cause me a great deal of concern - as they do any "normal" people I imagine - though I beleive there is a big difference between just the changing way of certain things (including religion, family & relationships) and the more neurotic and pathological/aberrent etc behaviors that arise from the rapid change, and the inability to cope with such on both the societal and personal levels...and I realize that not all people are "nice" etc....). And while I too yearn for the simpler times and ways, I don't think that it is possible to turn back the clock per se. We need to do better planning our course however - IMO. And you must realize that the religions of man - and our myths and superstisions are not static - but change through the ages. We are now in a time of great change - much as with the rise of civilizations 4,000+ (or so) years ago when new religions began to spring up and again 2,000 years ago...well its been another 2,000 years (and my suspicion is that these periods will lessen. Have you ever wondered why it was "right" for people to beleive in nature gods, then adding gods of certain behaviors or reflecting other realities around them...then abandoning all that for mono-theistic religions (that were less tied to the land)...and now...what will be appropriate...(BTW I don't think Christianity or Islam etc will last [as the dominant cultural pace setters & such)...at least not without major adaptation...and I'm not sure it can handle it... note to moderators, Jugs etc - we should maybe move the posts beginning with Jugs christianity comment into religion (I wouldn't want to take away from Saroyan....) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 374 | From: USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

Juggernaut Member Member # 351 posted March 06, 2002 02:53 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stuff it already - your just wrong. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You forgot to add 'IMO' at the end quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It seems to me that the Church (and Christian belief) fail us now in many respect. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 'It is in time of crisis that we must have faith', like many a times before in our bloody history........ quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- what would you have me do - fake it? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No, dont have to fake it, but dont openly advocate other relligions/beliefs. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- how do you suggest we turn back the clock (you are suggesting that this is preferrable are you not?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- There is no need to turn back the clock (though some technologies need to be banned eg. genetics), the Bible has the basic rules we must obey, and this can be easilly done in a 'modern world'. quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- And the Armenian church (as most traditional churches) is unable (aparently to sufficiantly adapt)...thats the problem with dogma i guess... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- God does not adapt to you, YOU must adapt to Him. -------------------- Vive Deu, Saint Amour! - Templar Knight battle cry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 307 | From: Sydney, Oz | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 05, 2002 04:14 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Juggernaut: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- perhaps Saroyan was (secretly?) a Buddist or a Daoist...what'ya think? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am quite disturbed to see Armenians giving up their faith (Christianity), this is the ultimate betrayal, in my eyes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Stuff it already - your just wrong. In fact you may have it backward. At one time Christianity was relevant to Armenians in every respect. It seems to me that the Church (and Christian belief) fail us now in many respect. Not that I think Christian values are completely bankrupt...but in and of themselves they are no longer sufficient - IMO. Additionally if an individual- such as myself lacks faith (and belief in the Bible as the divine word) - what would you have me do - fake it? Forces are at work that are changing us and our society very rapidly - forces of science and technology - how do you suggest we turn back the clock (you are suggesting that this is preferrable are you not?) Without doing so (eliminating technology) you cannot undo the forces that are changing us. So what is your practical solution? (aside from whining about it?) And the Armenian church (as most traditional churches) is unable (aparently to sufficiantly adapt)...thats the problem with dogma i guess... quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Juggernaut:

Juggernaut Member Member # 351 posted March 05, 2002 04:00 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- perhaps Saroyan was (secretly?) a Buddist or a Daoist...what'ya think? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am quite disturbed to see Armenians giving up their faith (Christianity), this is the ultimate betrayal, in my eyes. When I first started uni (2 years ago) I met with some (practicing) Muslims and became (and still are) good friends with them. Their friendship and the interesting conversations we had on religion sparked an interest in me, in Islam. At one point I was even considering conversion, but I realised that I would be carrying out the ultimate crime toward my peoples and their history, and my faith in Christianity and God has re-doubled because of this inspiration. -------------------- Vive Deu, Saint Amour! - Templar Knight battle cry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 307 | From: Sydney, Oz | Registered: Apr 2001 | IP: Logged

THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 05, 2002 03:49 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Azat: quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by THOTH: ... "In the time of your life, live--so that in that wondrous time you shall not add to the misery and sorrow of the world but shall smile at the infinite delight and mystery of it." ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Winston, Interesting that you wrote that about that quote. I thought making that my signature. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I had the exact same though upon reading it here - I guess since you mentioned it first you get first dibs. It really is a wonderful thought and would make a most excellent sig (though if I used it I wonder if would it curtail me from flaming those deserving of such (in my eyes)? But which adds more to our collective misery: doing so (to the deserving) or refraining from such? I suppose if I'm berrating the naysayers and close minded types it'b OK. And back to the quote...perhaps Saroyan was (secretly?) a Buddist or a Daoist...what'ya think? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 374 | From: USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

THOTH Member Member # 369 posted March 05, 2002 12:18 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yes perhaps this was so....but if Saroyan was anything he was certainly flawed...(isn't it always the way with genius?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 374 | From: USA | Registered: May 2001 | IP: Logged

hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 05, 2002 11:31 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- CONTINUATION OF LAST POST. Last sentence of my previous post should read. "Not too smart a thing to tell your wife." Just think how Gregory Peck must have felt sitting at numerous dinners at the home of Carol and Walter Matthau when Carol would relate Willie's anti-Semitic remarks to her before and after they had made the love that brought their children to the world. No wonder he permanently buried the fact that his grandfather was a British-national Armenian Catholic. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

hagarag Member Member # 494 posted March 05, 2002 11:22 AM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wh00t, Yes, they did. But I don't think that Saroyan did. There is a sickness within the Armenian community that drives so many of us out. Armenians are as guilty for the White Genocide as the Young Turks Ottomans were for the Red Genocide. My brother is now married to a Christian, so I do not know if he still practices Judaism. Saroyan with all his smarts was very stupid on the home front. He once told his beautiful blond young wife that she was too beautiful to be a Jew. Not too smartA THING TO TELLL OUR WIFE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posts: 644 | From: USA | Registered: Aug 2001 | IP: Logged

-=@=- moved topic and posts -=@=- let me knwo if i have all of it or not than i can cleen the other topic. [ March 12, 2002, 02:12 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

i just do not know the name of the Forum - sould it be under HyeForum / Other or HyeForum / Help Movses

hmmm--- HAgarags Corner ---- then he can post all that he has in one forum, liek Ara BAlyozyan is duing...

hmmmmmmm ... the topic of this forum was Willie Saroyan - can we open a new topic and move some of your post??? MOvses

Azat jan karevor@ tsankutyunn e, mnatsats@ chem kartsum eyakan harst e, inchpes vor kuzes. du noyaki shish@ im araj dir heto ov uzuma tor Portsy im arajits et shish@ tani / lav lurj - yekek Handipenq mek or - voroshenq yev handipenq - Klineq mer hyur@ - hravurum em bolorit, vorosheq vorter, yerb, kartsum em kareli e havaqvel, yete voch jashi, gone che surji serani shurj tsanotanalu yev janachelu mimiyants. isk amenner@ l@vanalu masin, hog mi ara mi ban kanenq!!! yes mekin gitem dranist menak amen lvatsor durs k@ga. menak et mi vat ban ka, amaner@ lvanaluts heto ir anun@ yerevi vran gri kam el ir web site hastsen. Movses

Azta jan Achqis vra:) chmornas mi shish en im sirats conyakits korq@ dnes

Azat jan kneres sakayn guluryan yev choreq@ nuyn@ chen Guluryan (kulurya ) aveli chor yev vran el tetev Shaqari poshi en tsanum, isk Choreq@ da Papuk, xmor@ tali pes anjatvor, dernavun, hamov, Xmorerena Ba shat el vor colestrolini patjarov chen trnum ogtvem, zato karor em xosel mets hajuyqov. HAm el Anet@ jishta asum He hi

Hogachap shnorhakal em Sireliner jan :L:) sakayn im taredarts@ 7/27 e urraki sxal or eyi drel knerek sakayn mets hajuyqov @endunum em bolor bari maxtanqner@, shnorhakal em iys tary el 3 amis shut tsnund kanenq.

ChoreQ - Azat jan himnakanum Zatiki yev kam Surb tsnundi jamank en patrastum, Zatiki jamanak nuynisk Xashats gunavor dzu en dnum mejter@, @endunvats dzev@ hyusqi n@man e HAmer, byuravet, geretsik YAm YAm YAmyyeeeeee Hamova sakayn indz chi kareli 5 hatits avel utel Gogly lav bana norits indz chi kareli 2 hatits avel: Movses

"why do the Armenian women clean up so quickly after the meals" answer -  we make way to much mess  I love cooking, mostly BBQ., Traditional Armenian Khorovats  I love it  and if I can find a good master I will have a Armenian Tonir ( Tundir) made in my back yard. Their is nothing in this world that makes me happy then cooking for the family and for friends, I like to have guests, if most of our cousins are present we would have over 35 to 40 guests. Qef time !!! I do not like to stop by at one of the meat markets and get the meat already prepared, I like to do the whole think my self. I love to experiment different ways of cooking, smoking, steaming and use different meat and ingredients. Anything that I can put on top of the MANGHAL I will cook it. HE HE But just like you seaphan jan me to I get the same treatment, and for some freaking reason I will always be on their way . It’s ok, it’s part of having fun ...

Welcome to HyeForum Mimmig Barov es yekel !!! Movses

NO FEDI THAT WAS NOT MY POINT - WE DO NOT NEED TO CALL NAMES TO THEM - AND ONE MORE TIME TO HAGARAG >>>>>>>>>------>>>>>>>> ->HAgarag stop doing this, this is not good, and it's not helping anyone, it's only tarring us apart. In my opinion WE need to find ways to bring Armenians closer not to take them a part.<- you can criticize all you like, but calling one a nazis is not a good think to do ? I’m not a part of any political part.., I have made-up my mined long time a go not to be part of any!!! but i do not teak sides, my good friend HAGARAG has a tendency of labeling , one more time for you my good friend - Hagarag jan - lets find ways to make our communities stronger, lets find ways to be united, lets find ways to understand each other and not point fingers on each other. if HAgarag needs to discus this he can always invite us to Hawaii if this doesn’t work we can always get the color crayons, it works better for some. Movses [ March 09, 2002, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: MosJan ]

do we even have a right to talk about Armenians like this ???? NO HAgarag stop doing this, this is not good, and it's not helping anyone, it's only tarring us apart. in my opinion WE need to find ways to bring Armenians closer not to take them a part. MOvses

http://www.armeniaweek.com/march082002/photos/picoftheweek_l.jpg Armenia's political leaders paid their respects to murdered Prime Minister Vazgen Sarkisian on what would have been his 43rd birthday on March 5. President Robert Kocharian, Defense Minister Serge Sargsian, and Minister of National Security Carlos Petrosian led those who laid wreaths and flowers at Sarkisian's grave at the Yerablur memorial complex in Yerevan. Terrorists gunned down Sarkisian during an assault on the Parliament on October 27, 1999. The trial of those accused of his murder is continuing. Photo By Armenpress ©Copyright ArmeniaWeek March 08, 2002. all rights reserved. WWW.ARMENIAWEEK.COM http://www.mksduduks.com/Gallery/Yerablur/MVC-838F.JPG

Street Libraries: Readers starved of stories turn to book exchanges By Suren Deherian ArmeniaWeek reporter When the greater part of Yerevan's citizens have already sunk into a deep sleep, embraced by the silence of the night, a handful of Armenians surround themselves with different characters before giving themselves up to their dreams. This is the world of the imagination, illuminated by a reading lamp, which visits them at midnight with the help of tired and tattered pages of used novels. Modern stories of love, fantasy and crime by American, Russian and European authors have become very popular in recent years. Street booksellers have responded to the demand by offering to exchange books bought by customers once they have read them. Books costing 350-450 Drams (70-80 cents) at first sale sink to 200 Drams once their pages are well thumbed. Customers who buy one book easily become members of such relay reading clubs. Once they have read it, they can return the book, pay the seller 100 Drams (17 cents) and exchange it for another. In Yerevan's public libraries, the cost of borrowing a book is approximately the same, though there are many fewer new titles to choose from because of a shortage of funds. Many of the books on the shelves are also in very poor condition. Meanwhile, day in day out, books borrowed from the street sellers pass through different apartments, their tattered pages often the only source of entertainment for some people. Former journalist Levon Mkrtchian now makes his living by selling books, standing in the street already for seven years. He sets up his stall near one of Yerevan's busiest streets, in an underground passage which is home to numerous other booksellers. Mkrtchian has read most of the books he sells or exchanges through his "street library". He is happy to see customers returning to exchange books for others in his collection. "It is profitable for me as it often happens when I cannot sell a book during a day. At least a book-exchange brings me money," says Mkrtchian. He observes a generation gap in the types of books that attract interest. The young, busy with their studies, are not interested in fiction at all, preferring to buy textbooks and dictionaries - usually under instruction from their teachers. Those over 40, from all social classes, want novels. They are often people, says Mkrtchian, who have withdrawn into their own inner worlds and don't participate in the social and political life of the republic. "Reading novels is a way to escape from everyday problems for them," he says. Susanna Balayan is typical. She has started to read books again thanks to the ease of obtaining new stories and visits one of the "street libraries" each week to exchange the books she has read for five different ones. She says: "I prefer to read one of these novels before going to sleep than watching boring TV serials." Because the books are so cheap to borrow, many readers don't bother to take care of them. Mkrtchian says books are regularly returned with the shells of sunflower seeds between the pages and oil stains over the words. Levon knows all of his customers and their preferences - he suggests titles he thinks they would like when they come in search of something to read. And each month he brings the latest stories from Moscow with the help of friends traveling to the city. He knows readers in Yerevan are eager to get their hands on them, and with plenty of competition from other sellers, this is one way he keeps customers happy. Teacher Irina Shakhnazarian says the street-exchange network has allowed Armenia's educated class to continue to read books despite the difficulties of making a living. "Of course, they are not from the classic genre. But the novels give people a break from everyday troubles, they offer an alternative to the present life," she says. Photos by Vahram Mkhitarian ©Copyright ArmeniaWeek March 08, 2002. all rights reserved. WWW.ARMENIAWEEK.COM

Typhoid Outbreak: Doctors treat five people from one family By Gayane Mkrtchian ArmeniaWeek correspondent An outbreak of typhoid has been confirmed in Echmiadzin. Three generations of one family have been struck by the potentially fatal illness. A mother and two children are still being treated in an isolation ward at the infectious diseases department of Echmiadzin's Vagharshapat hospital. The eldest victim, 62-year-old Armida Khachatrian, was the first to fall ill. She was taken to hospital on December 27, where she was kept for ten days then sent home. Larisa Khachatrian, 24, and her children Eduard, aged six, and Armida, aged four, remain at hospital and are said to be responding well to treatment. A third child, 18-month old Gayane, has been discharged along with her grandmother. "After many long investigations, we got the laboratory diagnosis of typhoid on February 11," says Zhora Poghosian, director of the city's Hygiene and Anti-epidemic Service. "Initially, Armida Khachatrian was diagnosed with several diseases at the hospital. Meanwhile, the typhoid was developing and she infected other members of her family." Melsida Chilingarian, head of the infectious diseases department at the hospital, says research is continuing into the origin of the outbreak. The last reported case of typhoid in Armenia was in 1998. "Typhoid is one of the acute intestinal infectious diseases and is also called the 'disease of dirty hands'. Infection passes via water, food and contact," Chilingarian (pictured) explains. "We think in this case that it was spread via contacts. If it were the other two ways, then more cases would have been registered during the past three months." She adds: "Symptoms of the disease are headache, dizziness, weakness, and prolonged high temperature that may last for three to four weeks. Infection of mucous membrane of the gut takes place and ulcers appear, which may later cause perforation and bleeding." One source of initial concern was that Armida Khachatrian is employed by the city's water supply service, collecting payments door-to-door. One theory is that she fell ill after handling contaminated money and failing to wash her hands properly. Hospital staff have traced everyone they believe had contact with the Khachatrian family, including relatives, friends, and neighbors. None were found to be infected. "The medical investigation is going on and a well-founded cause hasn't been established yet. One possible variant is that she bought milk products from street sellers that had been prepared in unhygienic home conditions," Poghosian says. Fear is having an effect, however. Many people stayed away from the funeral of a relative of the family last week, apparently afraid that they might be infected with typhoid - even though doctors said there was no risk. "Infected people psychologically endure the disease much harder. They feel bad that people avoid having contacts with them. But we assure that they are being discharged from here absolutely healthy," says Chilingarian. "It's nobody fault that he or she falls ill. It is simply necessary to keep to the rules of personal hygiene. But habits in this regard have fallen to a rather low level among people in our society." Photo by Hovik Avanessian ©Copyright ArmeniaWeek March 08, 2002. all rights reserved. WWW.ARMENIAWEEK.COM is published by the FOURTH MILLENNIUM SOCIETY, publishers of ARMENIAN INTERNATIONAL MAGAZINE. Articles may not be published without prior consent. <== Previous Story To Home page E-Mail YourComments! To story index page Next Story ==>