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Lately I found this in Wikipedia. I am just pasting here some interesting parts of the article: Alexander Vasilyevich Suvorov (Russian: Алекса́ндр Васи́льевич Суво́ров) (sometimes transliterated as Aleksandr, Aleksander and Suvarov), Count Suvorov of Rymnik, Prince of Italy (граф Рымникский, князь Италийский) (November 24, 1729 – May 18, 1800), was the fourth and last Russian Generalissimo (not counting Stalin). One of the few great generals in history who never lost a battle, he was famed for his manual The Science of Victory and noted for the sayings "Train hard, fight easy;" "The bullet is a fool, the bayonet is a fine chap." Early life and career Suvorov was born into a noble family of Novgorod descent at the Moscow mansion of his maternal grandfather Fedosey Manukov (a landowner from Oryol gubernia and an official of Peter I). Since Manuk is a popular Armenian name meaning Young, it is often assumed that the Manukovs were of Armenian descent. Suvorov entered the army as a boy, served against the Swedes during the war in Finland and against the Prussians during the Seven Years' War (1756 - 1763). After repeatedly distinguishing himself in battle he became a colonel in 1762. Monument to Suvorov as youthful Mars, the Roman god of war, by Mikhail Kozlovsky (1801). Enlarge Monument to Suvorov as youthful Mars, the Roman god of war, by Mikhail Kozlovsky (1801). Suvorov next served in Poland during the Confederation of Bar, dispersed the Polish forces under Pułaski, captured Kraków (1768) paving the way for the first partition of Poland[1] and reached the rank of major-general. The Russo-Turkish War of 1768–1774 saw his first campaigns against the Turks in 1773–1774, and particularly in the battle of Kozludji, he laid the foundations of his reputation.

I know a good joke for this topic. Do you know why women are watching porn movies till the end? Because they belive that the guy is going to marry the girl in the end...

Boghos your opinion makes sense for the big free market like in US. Vodaphone is foreighn owned same with t-mobile (german) etc. But can't you see the difference? It's a free market there is a COMPETITION. Armentel is a monopoly it doesn't have competition. It is doing whatever it wants. There is no descent Internet Connection in Armenia yet. All you can get is 4-10 Kb/s dial up connection. Even that makes people happy if it works. They are paying $40-$50 monthly fees for that type of connection. Remember one thing. US or any other industrial developed country will not allow aforeign company to take over it's whole communication systems. It will be prevented! That's why it is shared between many foreign and domestic partners. I would be totally ok if for exmaple 20% or 30% of the communication were owned by several foreign parties but not 100% and owned by one company!

Before it was owened by Levon Ter-Petrosyan (through the greeks) now it is owned by Vano Siradeghyan (through the arab emirates) probably. I can't imagine how bankrupt our country and state are that they can't pay $600 Milion to keep this type of strategic and important asset to itself.

Sounds like 2 degree school assignment

Thanks alot guys!!!!

Thanks shaunt, that's what i am expecting from a intelectual person. In my opinion this is a question which needs a scientific approach. I am not a historian but I red alot. I am just trying to find answers to the questions in me. I need facts to be convinced otherwise it's going to sound a conspiracy to me. Hellector I heard about Artak. I promise I will try to find his works and read. I usually research every topic from different points of view I mean I usually read what different sources say about the same issue. Recently I read Alexandr Varpetyan's "Ovqer en i Verjoy Ariaciner@" that's where this question came in me. Do you think that just by reading Xorenaci's "Hayoc Patmutyun" is enough to know our history? I prefer to read other sources too to make my neutral opinion about the issue. Although I am very carefull to choose the source I mean I am not going to take some turkish bull shit as a source. Hellector I am in my early 30's I do not lean on wiki I have red alot of books like you have said. I just reffered to wiki because some of the forum readers may not be able to find books that me and you used. And I am not trying to start a conflict. I just need clear answers or your opinions (like shaunt or Eurocentric). I prefer any opinion with facts that would convince me:) And when I do not agree with your opinion please don't be mad. Different people different opinions... cheers

Hellektor, you got some points in your post but some of it doesn't make sense to me, sorry. How come urartians and hurrians left their inscriptions in hurrian langugae but they spoke armenian? Can you explain what you just said? We know who were Yervandunis and we know who were the greeks. We can understand that part. In my understanding there were aryans and hurrians living next to each other and at some point they got mixed and some of aryans went to east to today's iran afganistan then they went north and finally to the west. Again that means there were two different nations with two different languages and one absorbed the other one. How did that happen who absorbed? Who got absorbed? Which nation was living there which one did move in? I need facts!!! P.S. Jews are semitic they came from north africa. Lookup semitic languages in wikipedia.

ArmoArmeN I think the one who doesn't want talk with facts and the one who imposes his pre-conditioned thoughts on others is you. Instead of talking and explaining you are starting to dispute stuff that does not fit this topic. I studied Philology, I am a linguist (German). You can't take two completly different languages and insist that they are coming from the same root. According to you hurrians are aryans. Then here comes the $ 1 000 000 question: how come they had two different languages? Instead of going rounds please answer it. If you don't know the answer then let me know I won't be mad on you.

ArmoArmeN, you did not answer my question, instead you are insisting your previous post. I agree with you about the names and origins. But I do not aggree with you about accadians. Maybe they have adopted aryan style of life by absorbing summerians but they still are from semitic origin. Aryans spoke a language from indo-european family. Hurrian is an ergative-agglutinative language that, together with Urartian, constitutes the Hurro-Urartian family (from wikipedia). Maybe I am an ignorant person but I still do not see any connection between hurrians and aryans when their languages are different. How did the transition happen and how did the language change? Who came first? Who has got absorbed? I just need a neutral answer. Belive me, I love my country, but I want to know the truth.

ArmoArmeniaN, The information you have provided is very valuable. I know all these historical facts. What is more concerning me is the language. We know that Urartian language originated from Hurrian and they do not belong to Indo-European language family. That means old hurrians and urartians did not talk armenian. My question is who were the real ancestoers of armenians that mixed with urartians (or whatever happened) and established the first armenian kingdom. Were they the Aryans? Or some tribes coming from north? Or were they always living in that region side by side with urartians but somehow always in the shade? I need simple explanation of who were the old armenian speaking people and where did the originate. How can you explain the transitional period from Urartu to Armenia?

I remember in the school they teached us that in China live chinese, in Europe europeans and in africa live negros. Thats what we have learned. And Soviet teaching system was completly free from racizm. So I don't think we are discriminating them by calling them negr (Hispanic people call them negros too) I don't have a problem with black people at all. My 2 cents about the video and song. It's a shame for us. That's all. No Music, No Lyrics. The only thing they have is a good voice which they could use to make better songs. Mez tenc baner chi sazum negrakan jaki juki erger. Aram Asatryanic u Tatulic (turkakan ergichner) chprtsats hima el rapi problem@ tsagec. ... Aram Xachatryani u Komitassi voskorner@ hima irar en galis gerezmani mej.

Armen You probably did not carefully read my post about the expression oghormi ancavornerid (my grandfater was forgetting that sometimes person's parents are still alive, thats why he was turning it to joke). I understand your point. It is possible. Epics are for the people who understand life who can read literature. Children who listen or watch to "Grinch" may not understand epics. But that does not neccessary mean that young people who have a life experince and understang may not understand the epics? I am not talking about young Einsteins, I mean in general inteligent youth.

Armen, I was reffering with 1000 opinions about the epics not to Sasunci Davit. As you can see each of us has its own opinion about epics although they are matching generally. Each of us just describes it with its own words... About zoghormin ti tam akanj aroghneri tsnorghnerin in Sasunci Davit. I still can't get your point I mean I don't know what are you refferenig to. Please go ahead and explain it to us, it is interesting to know. I remember my grandparents (when they were alive) used to use those phrases alot. (astvac) Oghormi Ancavornerid (your loved ones who passed away) Ogormi Hord (your dad who passwd away) Oghormi Tsnoghnerid (your parents who passed away) They used is in my understanding more like a word please. They were using it whenever they had to say please. Sometimes they even were telling oghormi hord to someone whos father was still alive And I like was Grandpa why are you saying that to him his dad is still alive and he was going: well I mean his grandfather:) It's like a please. That's my understanding. But if you have anything else in your mind go ahead and explain it please (oghormi ancavornerid)

1000 people 1000 opinions... Armen I don't get the point of your question. Sasunci Davit was rewritten by Hovhanes Tumanyan don't forget that.

Here are some Satelite Pictures of Erebuni and Tehshebani. http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/google1.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/google2.jpg

Zartonk the pics are here: http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=14...pid=174377& . Thanks

Here are some pictures from the remnants of Karmir Blur Fortress (Tehshebanii destroyed by skiths). The fortress of karmir blur is in horrible situation almost nothing is left. http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/karmirblur1.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/karmirblur2.jpg And some Xor Virap pics where Grigor Lusavorich was imprisoned for 13 years. A real scary entrance. One with clastrophoby must not go there http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/xorvirap1.jpg Inside the hole http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/xorvirap2.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/xorvirap3.jpg Donations... http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/xorvirap4.jpg

This shield according to the gid was not used in the war(too heavy and too big) instead it was hanging on the fortresses wall http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni41.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni42.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni43.jpg Helmet of Sarduri II http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni44.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni45.jpg This Xachqar was made on the back of cuniform writing probably in the 5th century AD. Found in Erebuni. Some stone water tubes found 2-3 years ago in Azatutyan Hraparak. http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni46.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni31.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni32.jpg Some old seeds http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni33.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni35.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni36.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni37.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni38.jpg Artists concepts: http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni39.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni40.jpg

According to the gid scientists still can't find the real definition some of these (maybe moulds?) http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni21.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni22.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni23.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni24.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni25.jpg I still can't understand what those 3 triangle shaped holes mean. According to the gid this is a signature of a master that made it. There is another one on the right lower corner with different marking (star). http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni26.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni27.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni28.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni29.jpg Some artifacts from Macedonian era. http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni30.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni11.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni12.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni13.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni14.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni15.jpg This guy was higher than me (They must have been drinking wine too much:)) http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni16.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni17.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni18.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni19.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni20.jpg

In the mythology section (http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=13031) we had a discussion with Zartonk about prechristian armenians and I promised to post pictures of Erebuni urartian fortress. I think this is the best place to post the pictures. Pictures are from the Erebui museum. There are a lot more to see in the actual museum, thats why I highly encourage everyone to visit the real fortress and the museum. During the excursion I have asked the young lady (gid) if I can tkae pictures she said its ok I can. I am assuming I can post pics here but again I highly recommend everyone to attend the Erebuni fortress there are a lot more to see and to hear. Some of the pics may be blury that's because staff were behind the galss. I have also two videos in Erebuni and Karmir Blur. But I don't have enough webspace to put them there. http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni01.jpg A scaled model of Erebuni fortress(I am dreaming of recreating it in any 3D software) http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni02.jpg Young lady, the gid http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni03.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni04.jpg part of urartian map http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni05.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni06.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni07.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni08.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni09.jpg http://users.adelphia.net/~gegham2/pics/erebuni10.jpg It looks like I can't post too many pics. I have to do them in separate sessions.

Armen, epics are in my opinion like movies, some are imagination of creative mind some based on true stories. Even based on a true story they are more or less exaggerated Epic of Gilgamesh used to be just a story about summerian legendary king until recently a german archeological expedition discovered the city of Uruk and the remnants of riverbed Euphrates (according to epic they changed the flow of Euphrates to burry King Gilgamesh there). You have mentioned about Shmabala as an fortress. For some group of people it's a city hidden in tibet for other ones it's existence is in a different dimension and only the chosen ones can enter there for Elena Blavatskaya it was the source of all her works (she was getting her knowledge and energy from them). Even Nazis and Stalin financed expeditions to find the city and it's habitants (The life in Shambala is known to be absolute and the habitants posses magical powers. Maybe they wanted to get some of those magic in their hands...). In my opinion the heroes in Sasna Tsrer are kinda described like prechristian armenian gods (Mheri Dur, twin brothers, getting pregnant from water etc.). Coming to the Sasun. Why Sasna Tser? Why not Abaranci Tsrer or Ardahanci tsrer? I know only one thing. Mush and Sasun were never completly conquered by any enemy (especially by turks) until 1915 when they left it and spread all over the world. Maybe thats why. Who knows. Level15 is a talented artist he probably doesn't need to know if it is based on a true story or just an imagination. Just wait until he comes out with his next "Shedevr" (wonder) then you will be amazed.

You are welcome 15 levels. The only thing I found (Wikipedia) about Sasun's name's origins is the following. Sasun was a region (Sasun) and family (Sanasuni) in Armenia, centered in Sasun. Its main ruler was Khut Sanasuni c. 590. Their lands happened to Mamikonian c. 772. Mamikonian ruled Sasun until 1058/1059. A ruler called Hovhannes Mamikonian (c. 850) is reported for this region. The traditional epic of David of Sassoun centres on the region. P.S. By the way you guys have an impressive website kinda like 2advanced.com