Hellektor

Zartonk jan, vochinch. Gar mi yergir, Hyastan er anun@. 543 dari strkutiunits heto, motavorabes 20%@ azatagrvets, heto dra 60%n el aretsin ou dvetsin gazan Turkin, hima el vor 70 dari dranits heto mi pokr mas@ het enk vertsrel, eli norits seghani shurj amboghj@ bashkhum enk nuin aryunarbu Turkin... Verchatsav, Hyastan@ gnats... miayn huyss Artsakhi joghovurtn e vor voch mi gerb chi hamadzayni daradsk dal Turkin... I have come up with this solution which I desperately hope someone to whom it all concerns will see. By this, I do all I can on my humble part, using the only channel available to us ordinary mortals, to save Armenia from destruction. Knowing that this will never be seen or heard, while I also have lost sleep (literally), I am preparing myself for the inevitable and horrible end of our statehood in less than a couple of decades from the moment this document of capitulation (despite a mighty victory in our baggage) is signed. Just another ancient nation being erased from the face of the earth, so what? One day, approximately eight billion years from now, the sun will cease to exist too. That the damned names of the traitors, the midgets Serj Sarkissian and Edward Nalbandian will go down in history alongside Vassaks and Merujans of history, while the last two did have some positive traits as well, the former two, the lousy thugs at the head of today's Armenia will always be remembered as the most impotent of politicians in our history. The end is near, may the survivor instinct of our nation be rekindled in these Sodom-Gomorrah days where Armenia has given in and has traded all our age-old traditional values to the lures and the mirage of the decadent Judeo-Saxon anti-civilization of Jewmockracy and Hebrewdom of speech...

Then the Judeo-Saxon sonofabitchery will have their pretext to accuse Armenia for being hardline. This is the very fruit of the sonofabitchery of Levin Peterstein who brought about the March 1 disaster on Armenia, using the money paid by the architects of colorful hebrewvolutions, the Jew George Soros and Co., which resulted in the miserably weak start of Serj. Don't get me wrong, the current statesmen of the RoA are mere lousy, career-monger thugs, but the whole situation is the result of treachery and weak Armenian diplomacy, not to forget the blunders of the predecessors of the present government who brought the victorious Armenian nation to the level where we have accepted the lousy, stupid, impossible and defeat compelling formula “territorial integrity vs. the right for self-determination”. Thus -to reiterate your Harout inspired golden---no make it platinum--plate-metaphor- the victorious Armenia has accepted that Artsakh is indeed part of the nonexistent “territorial integrity” of a fake state, counterfeited on historic Armenian territory in 1918 for pan-Turkist, genocidal purposes that stole its name from the northwest Iranian region and which does not have a single legal document that it has ever existed as a sovereign state before 1991, nor is there a document to show that it has ever sat down with its neighbors to delineate its borders. What territorial integrity are they bsing about? What about Armenia's territorial integrity? Unless they bring the solution of the Artsakh issue under the principle of territorial integrity (that of Armenia of course), the conflict will never be “solved” without the victorious Armenian side ceding blood-earned historic Armenian territory to the sore, genocidal, warmongering “Azeri” losers. This is the core of the whole scam of the Turk-Armenian “reconciliation” farce, which as we can see, is going in the Turco-Judaic friendly direction because of the incompetence of our stinking diplomacy. See above. Also see above, plus I fear any such revolution, given the current state of mind of the population of the RoA, will end in a colorful Jewvolution which will bring the downfall of the Armenian state even faster. I’d prefer a coup.

Hellektor's Humble Prescription: Take ONLY ONE WORD Out of the Protocols and Solve All Armenian-Turkish Problems Regarding the commotion around the protocols in the Armenian community where you don't see the forest for the trees, the countless (mostly too complicated to be feasible) suggestions and given the emotional reaction of our nation which has been the root of all our problems (see how the Turks are playing their role whether it's the charade in Davos or the “Azeris” faking being pissed by Turkey while they have everything under control), I on my part humbly suggest the removal of JUST ONE WORD from the protocols to solve the Artsakh conflict, neutralize the denial of the Armenian Genocide and ensure our right to our occupied homeland. From the sentence “Confirming the mutual recognition of the existing border between the two countries as defined by relevant treaties of international law”, I suggest the statesmen of the RoA demand the removal of the term “existing”. I assume the audacity to ensure that the solution of the Turk-Armenian problem will be put on the right track and no compromises from the Armenian side will ensue. The Turk-Armenian conflict/problem is exclusively TERRITORIAL. The Turk destroyed the Armenian nation in their own homeland for thousands of years to prevent the liberation of Armenia and the establishing of an Armenian state. I. When after Lenin's revolution in 1917, the part of Armenia under Russian rule became free and when they saw the danger of the resurrection of an Armenian state on that territory which would spoil their meticulously and successfully carried out extermination of the Armenian nation all over the Turk occupied Armenian territories and most of Asia Minor, the cunning Turk counterfeited the artificial state of fake “Azerbaijan” on that liberated Armenian territory, stealing the name from the northwest region of Iran for later territorial claims from that country, killing two birds with one stone, which would further their delusional ambitions according to their sick, pan-Turkist delirium. II. The reason Turkey obstinately denies the Armenian Genocide is because of the fear of an obligation of compensating the Armenian nation and since the crime was perpetrated to steal Armenia, beside the fact that Turks know their country was founded on other peoples’ homeland through annihilation of the landlord, the primitive, nomadic, cattle-herder mentality of the Turk throws them in a hysterical fit when the detachment of any territory from Turkey is discussed. By removing the word “existing” from the mentioned sentence in the protocols which will render the phrase: “Confirming the mutual recognition of the border between the two countries as defined by relevant treaties of international law” the Turkish preconditions will be neutralized. This will: I. solve the territorial problem. While under the phrase “relevant treaties of international law” Turks and the international Jewry understand the illegal Kars treaty, we understand the ONLY valid document which is the Wilson arbitration, where the borders were delineated according to all prerequisites of international law. Notice that this is no compensation for the Armenian Genocide and to get the legally specified territory back, we do not have to utter the word genocide. Compensation for all the murdered Armenians, the destruction of our civilization and monuments we will demand after Turkey's recognition thereof, whenever that may be. I do not pretend from one day to the other Turks will cede the territory, but with the raising of the Wilson arbitration issue, the Turk (and the international Jewry) will lose their weapon of the Armenian Genocide denial (or the infinite wait for hearing the phrase “Armenian Genocide” from the lips of a US president) and will fall into a constant panic of finding ways to counter this legal document. This will: II. solve the problem of the denial of the Armenian Genocide and defuse the stubborn and costly fight of the Turk, redirecting their efforts to counter the Wilson arbitration. Let them create a thousand and one sub-commissions to infinitely discuss whether “it was genocide or not”! And most importantly this will III. solve the Artsakh problem, more precisely, the question of the liberated territories around the Soviet era drawn, genocidal borders of NKAO, the main reason for coming up with this scam of Turk-Armenian “relations”. Every time a Turkish official will be about sniveling like hyenas regarding the “Armenian occupied “Azeri” territories”” or howling like wolves concerning the ““return” of “Azeri” “refugees””, they have to think twice about the Armenian territory they have been illegally occupying since 22nd of November 1920, the day Woodrow Wilson signed and sealed (with the big seal of the Union) his FULL REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE UPON THE ARBITRATION OF THE BOUNDARY BETWEEN TURKEY AND ARMENIA, where incidentally there is also an interesting phrase: “The government of the United States has never recognized the de facto governments either of Georgia or of Azerbaijan.”, yet another weapon in our hands to solve the issues of Artsakh, Nakhijevan, Utik and Javakhk. ***** Since all we do is grumble about implicit Turkish preconditions, I have made the above simple suggestion which I believe will (for the first time and without much effort) give Armenia the brilliant once in a century chance to implicitly state our precondition that is the key to the solution of our problem/conflict with the Turks, namely to raise the issue of the Wilson arbitration that will lead to the solution of all Armenian-Turkish problems and make these protocols the most positive document in our hands since Sèvres. I wish I could somehow get the attention of Armenian politicians or analysts. I hope the readers with the connections will see this worthy of bringing up in the relevant circles. I am sure if the Turks want to make us believe they do not have anything to hide and they are sure about the legality of the Kars treaty, they wouldn’t have to object to this suggestion.

He's only a step away from the unspeakable term and the unleashing of my "Eastern Anatolian" bet. Hey WesternHye, Asia Minor/Anatolia ends at the 38th eastern meridian where the Armenian Highland starts. He obviously is confused.

This is more because of the customs, the way different people in different regions dress, do their hair, talk, eat, etc., not because they are from different races. The best example: the very second generation of all those who emigrated from Iran in 1946 to ARmSSR and were called Akhpars look, talk and walk exactly as what you label Hyastantsi.

A HUGE expert? WTF is “Giligian Armenians” and what's the difference with “Cilician Armenians”??? P.S. Add this to your HUGE expertise: more than 50% of the Armenians in today's Republic of Armenia are the descendants of the survivors of the Armenian Genocide who migrated eastwards. One more thing: there is no “Eastern Armenia” or “Western Armenia”. Remember that Kars (Ani), Ardahan, Surmalu (Mt. Ararat), Nakhijevan, Utik, Pytakaran are parts of the so-called “Eastern Armenia” that are still under Turk occupation. I prefer the expression Turk occupied Armenia for all the parts of our homeland under Turkic yoke.

I suggest you read the ICG report to be reassured Turks are not about giving anything here, they’re not about bargaining, they never have been. The whole farce called Turkey-Armenia “relations” is NOTHING but forcing Armenia to cede the liberated territories, period. I'll dust my comparison of Turkey to an old and horrendously ugly prostitute that with an ultraheavy makeup manages to sell its putrid cadaver at an exorbitant price to the West and indeed all the world. Everything they say is in the line of presenting themselves as IMPORTANT. This despicably repulsive looking prostitute now says “give me the universe and I'll open”. Even if you give it the universe, it still won't open. It's not about the prostitute opening itself, it's about taking the universe. That's why I say it's better the prostitute keeps it closed so that the cadaverous stink and the influx of all the germs and microbes that will be unleashed after its opening, will stay right where they are.

One more thing: there's no “road map”. It's a completely blank paper with not a thing on it. The whole charade was staged by the Jew infested US administration to give a pretext to Obama not to say Armenian Genocide. That they had to go this far to stage such a farce, shows what an important lever Armenia can have if our lousy statesmen were wise enough use it. P.S. There are three preconditions put by the genocidal vermin Turkey: I. Stop Armenian Genocide recognition campaign II. Recognize the illegal Kars Treaty, hence, the present genocidal borders of Armenia and Turkey III. Cede the liberated territory The first condition is already met. It doesn't matter whether there's a single word about it on the blank paper called the “road map” or not. The football diplomacy achieved this and the announcement of the signing of the blank “road map”, on 23rd of April, within the shortest sufficient news breaking time before April 24, put an end to the recognition campaign. If our lousy statesmen don't say a thing about the recognition or not of the Kars Treaty when asked, seems they are going to capitulate on this one as well. Since when referring to Artsakh, they don't clearly say they mean the present, actual borders, then it means they have capitulated on that too, none of which need to have been mentioned in the “road map”. If this happens, the Armenian state will be abolished in no time.

The thing is, what it is we understand by Artsakh. Our statesmen reassure us that the ceding of Artsakh is out of the question. The problem is what is it they understand under Artsakh? If it's the territory of the former NKAO, the fetus-shaped area with borders illegally drawn by genocidal “Azeris”, which means they don’t consider the liberated historic Armenian territory around it part of Artsakh, this is lethal to Armenia. So what do we gain by signing this petition? I suggest these people set up a petition where it clearly states no ceding of ANY territory. Not a square nanometer! We have no territory to give the Turk, we have territory to take FROM the Turk.

What the heck, to answer/confirm the above, I'll copy/paste my view on Turks in Eurofagland for the nth time: @Europeans They'll enter Eurofag Union without recognizing Cyprus, a member of the same. From the moment Turkey enters the EU, given that they'll cross the 100 million line by then, there will be a one to four proportion for a Turk male of the species and European women. Since each Turk male can have four wives according to their faith and since founding a family is passé for Europeans, they'll f*** all your women; since they like pink butts of so-called white men (see Midnight Express), they'll f*** your men too for fun and since Turks are famous animal-f***ers, they'll f*** your dogs as well. If they needed nine centuries and genocide to turkify the entire population of Asia Minor and all of Turk occupied Armenia, I give less than two centuries after they set their paws in EU before Europe will be completely turkified. Then they'll prove beyond a shadow of a doubt and without the need to present any proof that Beethoven, Mozart, Bach, Rembrandt, Da Vinci, Michelangelo, Rafael, Dante, Shakespeare, etc. were all Turks. Serves them right, those arogant, indifferent, racist Europeans.

Dear DominO, The problem in your view is that you believe Turks are here for bargaining. They want it all and they won't give a thing. It's always been this way, as Z'areh appropriately puts it, it's the very Karabekir attitude. Go further back: San Stefano, English faggots faggotate it and hey presto, we have Berlin. What does the bloody sultan do? Slaughter more Armenians. Turks agree on “reforms”: the bloody sultan creates the army of the Hamidiye thugs, slaughters hundreds of thousands of Armenians. Armenians are happy, they cooperate with the Young Turks, what happens is they burn Adana for thank you. Through more English faggot faggotation finally they consent to two Eurofags watching over the situation in Armenian vilayets, Hoff and Westenenk hardly (or never) arrive, war breaks out. What do we get? The worst genocide in human history. Why worst? Because the result is 100% success and a perpetuation to this day because of impunity. Turks have reneged on every treaty they have put their signatures under even Lausanne and the illegal Kars. Turks won't give, the whole Turkey-Armenia opening of border charade is nothing but a Judeo-Saxon, Turkic treachery to force Armenia to cede the five districts. The borders will never open. These relations are dead fetus. They want territory, this is the main issue of Turk-Armenian problem.

My (an ordinary Armenian's) only outlet is this type of internet forums. I will repeat this a quintillion times if possible, so that only a few would also change their attitude and in turn, compel others to do the same. Just learn a lesson from the Turk: they do not accept the loss of a single square meter of (for us) liberated Artsakh. They even consider today’s tiny Armenia as “historic” fake “Azerbaijani” territory, while they have absolutely not a single moral, historic or legal proof that a single square meter of the land they call “Azerbaijan” after the northwest region of Iran belongs to these leftovers of Oghuz invasions. You are taking the words out of my fingertips. This is the attitude. If all of us ordinary Armenians constantly shove this into the faces of our lousy politicians, this may start having an effect in the end. What would we achieve if we kept on sharing the defeatist attitude of our statesmen?

Z'areh, Do not be pissed when I say you don't have the right. You have to TELL me that I don't have the right to be defeatist. I TELL Serzh that he does not have the right (no matter they call me akhpar) to cede a square nanometer of our LEGALLY rightful land. And those are what you see in my avatar. Thank god or whatever we have the Wilson arbitration, otherwise if 3 million out of 8 to 9 million Armenians cared about our Cause, if asked to draw what we want for our future Armenia, we would have 3 million different maps. We have to play according to the rules of international law. I don't say from one day to the next we'll get that territory, but our collective aim should be to focus on what we can claim LEGALLY. You think I don't want Kharbert or Cilicia or Sebastia or Caesarea? I want to see Turkey reduced to rubble (Turkey is the virus program and fake “Azerbaijan” is the crapware installed with it, it will automatically be deleted once the virus is uninstalled). I want to see their hairless Tatar asses deported back to Mongolia, the hell they crept from and the hell they belong. But what I wish is only what I wish. There are only four kinds of levers where a country can exercise their wishes: I. Economical II. Political III. Military IV. Legal A powerful economy will also entail a powerful army and powerful political leverage. Armenia with its present borders and given the hostile region will NEVER be able to attain a considerable height regarding any of these levers, thank god or whatever we have the legal lever, don't tell me no one cares, whether they care or not they know its bulletproof. Proof: the ICG report, Proof: all the filth coming from Mattjew Brazen Bryzas and Daniel Frieds and Jaap de Hoop (Jakob Gijsbert) Shapiros that constantly whine Armenia should drop all territorial claims to Turkey. They know we have the right according to their own laws. This is the reason the good old US of A has not recognized Lausanne, hence, Turkey, the very IMPORTANT ally they always love to cry to the world. The USA does not recognize IMPORTANT Turkey because of poor, little, resourceless, landlocked Armenia, because they cannot work against the law of the land of the US of A and all this despite the heavy Jew infestation of the entire fabric of western policy making among other things. We can win, until then we don't have the right to be defeatist. The sore genocidal losers don't want give up a square meter of what they have already lost, which has never belonged to them legally. So why are we saying that we have to give the five districts? No effing way, Never, ever think that way.

I know dear DominO, but this looks like a bluff strategy that may someday ruin our statehood. I would like to hear our statesmen say: “We have no territory to give the Turks, let's sign a peace treaty and get on with our lives. Be gentlemanly and gracefully accept defeat. Forget Artsakh that has never belonged to you. Get on with your oil business and be stinking rich, otherwise, if you start the war this time we will go all the way to Bagavan”.

I rapidly F3ed the garbage ICG puke report and see what kind of filth it contains. This is just one part , the most important subject in it, there's also a huge shitpile of shameless Armenian Genocide denial, the insignificant Khojaly incident scam where they brazenly announce Armenians massacred 600 “Azeri” “civilians”, while they totally denigrate and downgrade Sumgait, Baku, Gandzak, Maragha, Shahoomian, etc. pogroms. A Turk could not have prepared this report with more anti-Armenian/pro-Turk prejudice than these filthy, lying, genocidal Jew hollow hoaxers. See for yourselves. From the “International” Cryjew Group puke tank: Note that the title of this report is TURKEY AND ARMENIA: OPENING MINDS, OPENING BORDERS: 1. “Armenian occupation of Azerbaijani land”; 2. “the absence of Armenian troop withdrawals from substantial areas they occupy of Turkey’s ally, Azerbaijan”; 3. “Ethnic Armenian forces’ rapid advance into Azerbaijan in 1993”; 4. “…withdrawal of Armenian troops from occupied territories in Azerbaijan”; 5. “Agree together with Azerbaijan to the OSCE Minsk Group basic principles on a Nagorno-Karabakh settlement; then start withdrawals from Armenian-occupied territories in Azerbaijan”; 6. “The war resulted in the occupation of most of Nagorno-Karabakh and considerable adjacent Azerbaijani territory by ethnic Armenian forces”; 7. “Armenia’s efforts to pursue international recognition of the 1915 events as genocide32 and its refusal to withdraw from occupied Azerbaijani territory”; 8. “Armenia captured the Kelbajar district of Azerbaijan”; 9. “Turkey’s major stated pre-condition for opening the border and diplomatic ties with Armenia was withdrawal by ethnic Armenian forces from occupied Azerbaijani territories”; 10. “In the case of Nagorno-Karabakh, this would include troop withdrawals”; 11. “Armenian withdrawal from occupied Azerbaijani territories before it agrees to reopen the mutual border”; 12. “Yerevan realise progress in bilateral relations will be sustainable only if it withdraws in due course from occupied Azerbaijani territory after a border opening with Turkey”; 13. “They have to do something. Maybe pull back from one square kilometre, a few villages, then announce a timetable. Even if they are lying”; 14. “deployment of international peacekeepers and carry out withdrawal of Armenian forces from Azerbaijani occupied territories”; 15. “Armenia’s withdrawal from occupied Azerbaijani territories has long been Turkey’s major stated precondition for opening the border”; 16. “Azerbaijan disputes the idea that normalisation before Armenia withdraws from its occupied territory would be helpful”; 17. “The strategy and wish of Armenian policy makers is to drive a wedge between the two brotherly states”; 18. “If the border opens before Armenian forces have withdrawn from occupied Azerbaijani territory, this will be against Azerbaijan’s national interest”; 19. “Azerbaijani governmental and opposition parties declared in a rare joint statement that the opening of the Turkish-Armenian border as long as Azerbaijani territories remain occupied “is nothing more than justification to Armenia’s aggressive policies””; 20. “As long as this problem [Armenian occupation of Azerbaijani land] is not resolved, it is not possible for us to adopt a healthy decision”; 21. “…if Turkey compromises by delinking the opening of the border from Nagorno-Karabakh withdrawals, any further normalisation will be unsustainable if there is no progress in its disputes with Azerbaijan”; 22. “Armenian forces occupy at least one eighth of Azerbaijan” (What happened to the 20% lie? A “positive point” in the whole pile of reeking rubbish. Here they have realized they cannot sustain the lie, that's why we have to go all the way to force them to back down from the rest of their history distortion. H.); Twenty two times (after a rapid search) and all this in a report about 30 PDF pages long (minus indexes)! This only shows how desperate these Judeofag-Turcofag-Anglofag-Eurofag bastards are and how powerful and important Armenia actually is. This is a sign of their bottomless despair. They were miserably defeated on the battlefield and they resort to such cunning to steal our sacred eternal homeland. More reason for us not to cede a single square nanometer no matter what. I copy/paste the following for the millionth time, yet it doesn’t seem to worry anyone here. In the present situation, though not as wide as it should be to be the last nail in the coffin of pan-Turkism, the Armenian wedge is wide enough to guarantee a certain degree of security against the unquenchable thirst of the wolves in human shape, for Armenian blood: http://www.welcometoarmenia.com/images/map_armenia_regions.jpeg This is what they want. As soon as they get the historically Armenian territories around the artificially drawn genocidal borders of NKAO, the wedge will be as vulnerable as in Soviet times. Emboldened by the usurpation of land even when they lost the war they started, the brazen Turk will start demanding Meghri to have direct access to stolen Nakhijevan and Armenia will drown in a Turk quagmire: http://www.vikenk.com/images/armenia/armenia_map_black_small.jpg They do not need to commit massacres to drive Armenians out of the girl’s profile. They constantly howl about a “million” “Azeri” “refugees” and once they took the liberated land, they’ll use their weapons of mass population, unleash a million ferocious “Azeris” on us, settling them in those areas which will stifle Artsakh and Armenia.

While I more or less agree with the rest of your post, the above statement is so dangerous, so lethal that there's no limit to it. How shall I put this, I have said it a quadrillion times and I'll try to search my mega text file and copy/paste (with updates) the points to make it as clear to you as possible. Here I beg you on my knees, PLEASE read carefully, while I have said these things some years ago, and I keep on tearing myself in pieces repeating it, the fact that you for one (an example of a large percentage of our nation) think this way worries me to death: If you follow ALL the reports (update: here I invite you to read the recent puke defecated by the “International” Cryjew Group as well where this is so blatant, the stink paralyzes you from the PC monitor), resolutions, statistics from all jewmanitarian organizations, you'll see that the ONLY issue is the “return” of the liberated territories to fake “Azerbaijan” and the “return” of “one million” “Azeri” parasites to stifle Artsakh. Not a word about Sumgait, Baku, Gandzak, Shahoomian, Maragha, etc. monstrosities, not a word about the 400,000 to half a million REAL Armenian refugees, not a word about the “Azeri” aggression, not a word about the destruction of Armenian monuments, not a word of justice. NOT A SINGLE WORD concerning the rights of Armenians to their home/freedom/life. The whole 90 year Artsakh issue has been reduced to “…withdrawal of Armenian troops from occupied territories in Azerbaijan”. In my view, our most important issue is not the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, not the forced resolution of Artsakh issue, not the poverty not the lack of freedom in Armenia but the question of the liberated territories around Artsakh. The ceding of any territory to the “Azeri” losers would mean I. the legal confirmation of a border between Armenia and fake “Azerbaijan”, something that does not exist yet, II. giving up any future demands of Nakhijevan and northern Artsakh territories, III. endangering Artsakh, rendering it vulnerable to future “Azeri” aggression, IV. emboldening the genocidal loser to demand more territory, eventually south of Siunik (Meghri) to have a border with occupied Nakhijevan (if they can get territory even when they lost the war they instigated), V. therefore, endangering Armenia. Ceding liberated territories = ceding Artsakh = ceding Armenia, period. Whatever the hell our politicians do, they do not have the right to do any of these two: 1. Recognize borders of Turkey and fake “Azerbaijan”. 2. Cede a square nanometer of the liberated territories. If they do any of these, they will have betrayed our nation in the most shameful and miserable way. I for one hope if the danger of such a move becomes real, patriotic Armenians will do everything possible to abort the treachery, otherwise, bye-bye Armenia. ***** End of copy/paste (with some updates)***** The whole point of all “negotiations”, history falsification, Turk-Armenian “relations” and border issue, the creation of OSCE, ICG and similar puke tanks is to force Armenia to cede the liberated territory to the sore genocidal, warmongering “Azeri” losers. Not being able to steal more Armenian territory on the battlefield, they are resorting to the most despicable sonofabitcheries to steal that little piece of Armenian historic land. The aim is the same as it was from the beginning: pan-Turkism, the removal of the Armenian wedge, the destruction of Armenia. Try to see it clearly. The territory was liberated with blood, no justification can be concocted to cede it to the losers. By saying “from the start Armenian officials have talked about these regions as buffer zones, and as such they will have to be returned”, you are accepting defeat despite our victory. You do not have the right and I preserve the right to tell you, no Armenian has the right to think this way, just because our lousy politicians have led us into this trap. Turks have always reneged on their promises and have always violated (and are still violating) the exigencies of all the treaties (legal or otherwise) they put their signatures under. Real representatives of the Armenian nation can also tell them to go screw themselves. We have no territory to give the Turk, we have territory to take FROM the Turk.

No one believed but as human beings are over 99% about emotion and less than 1% about logic (even the most logical among us) we had the tiny flame of hope that if Obama could allow the mullahs to make their nukes and he could go talk to Chavez and even start talking to Castros, maybe, just maybe he could also let go of this precious lever and get it over with once and for all. Your own emotional tone also betrays that you were no exception, like any good Armenian. The reason for the title of this thread is to tell them “we know who you are and what you're all about”. I was/am sick of Armenian analysts (and most other Armenians) still blaming ourselves, Serj, etc. and praising Obama for “the progress he made compared to his predecessors”, despite his horrible giant step back from even the Bush addresses. He says Medz Yeghern and we say wow! Yet who the hell knows what it means? The Bush at least translated it into Great Calamity, which this Hussein (his advisors in fact) couldn't even bring himself to do. I agree on all your points except for this one. It has nothing to do with US national security. Turkey is garbage and can't do shit to US. It's about the eternal Judeo-Turkic sonofabitchery. laugh at me as much as you like, this is the reason. One more thing, the whole Turk-Armenian “relation” charade is nothing but the latest Judeo-Turkic treachery to force Armenia to cede the liberated territories to the sore genocidal “Azeri” losers. Read the ICG report to convince yourself they are offering us this sour/bitter vomit candy to get what they want. Despite all the reassurance from the lousy Edward and the lousier Serj that there are no preconditions, the signing of the “road map” which I believe is a blank paper with nothing on it, and that, announced within the shortest news breaking time before April 24, was staged by the Obama administration itself to close the chapter of Armenian Genocide recognition by parliaments of other countries. The AG recognition campaign died a certain death on April 23 2009 and they knew it long beforehand. Here's one proof: from the filthy garbage report excreted by the “International” Cryjew Group released on 14th of April 2009, 8 days before the “road map” masquerade: “Although Obama repeatedly promised on the campaign trail to formally recognise the 1915 forced relocation and massacres of Armenians under the Ottoman Empire as genocide, he should continue to steer the prudent middle course he has adopted as president. The U.S. Congress, which has a draft resolution before it, should do the same”, so reassure yourself who's controlling the US policy making. Turks and Jews are not after Turk-Armenian relations or opening of borders, they’re after the historic Armenian liberated territories around the artificially “Azeri” drawn borders of the former NKAO. If these five districts are ceded, this will be the end of Armenia. I only hope the Armenian nation will stand up and prevent this from happening. They should go as far as a military coup if necessary. There, I said it.

Thanks, DominO. So this article really exists, unlike most of the garbage on tallturkishtale which is pure concoction. I brought this up because I thought this could also be a fabrication like what the Gumen claimed about the Norman book. If you remember, the C. B. Norman book Armenia and Her Campaign of 1877 which is in fact pro-Armenian, is cited by tallturkishtale as pro-Turk and he fabricated the same “Armenians betrayed their master, they got what they deserved” crap which is the whole essence of tallturkishtale hate site regurgitated a zillion times over, as the content of that rare book. BTW, I still haven't been able to get my hands on this book, have you by any chance seen a copy? One more thing, I guess the same applies to the so called Memoirs of a Turkish Statesman by the genocidal Jemal. I couldn't find anything concerning the existence of this “book”.

So do you! The difference is I read your posts and address what you say whereas you constantly miss the point of what I say. In fact there was a lot I typed in the previous post and the population/area comparison was new on this board. A sign you haven't got what I have repeated a million times! What the heck, for the million and first time: “Artsakh is our most important issue, more important than the “recognition” and shedding of a couple of crocodile tears by the United Slaves of Israel congress. I have said this a million times and I repeat: They are using this recognition issue as a lever to emotionally blackmail Turks and Armenians. While we have the arbitration of Woodrow Wilson independent of recognition or not of the AG, the Armenians have been led to believe unless the Armenian Genocide is recognized by the US and Turkey, we are not allowed to demand any form of compensation, let alone that of land. They want us to believe that the Armenian Genocide is like the events of WWII where they got Palestine as a compensation for their self imposed sufferings.” I only said we shouldn't completely stop the recognition efforts, it will mean a victory for Turks and a big defeat for us. Got it? Let me explain what I mean by the raising of the Wilson issue: I don't believe we will get territory from one day to the next. The first benefit it brings, it will show them we do not need recognition of AG to ask for territory, we have a legal document that entitles us to a part of Turk occupied Armenia you see in my avatar. This will also drive the Turks mad. They'll fall in a fit of panic and they'll do anything to make us forget the issue. They may even recognize the Armenian Genocide begging us they'll do that if we leave the Wilson issue aside. Why do you think the ICG and the puke tanks are pushing Armenia to recognize the treaty of Kars? Because they damn well know it's illegal and they are scared shitless someone, someday may bring up the Wilson issue which is a part of the law of the land of the US of A. Capice? I live in this country and I was a little kid when the Islamic revolution happened. Dictatorial regimes must have a lethal enemy. The motto of this dictatorial regime has been “death to America” from day one. You're not the realist I though you were, because Turkey will recognize the AG sooner than this regime will talk to America. If Khamenei dies, there might be a chance they leave the so-called supreme religious leader thing aside by changing the constitution; because this is not really a republic but a monarchy with a man with a black cabbage on his head. Until then no Iran-US relationship is even imaginable. P.S. BTW DominO, do you know whether the article on tallturkishtale, Angora and the Turks from The New York Times Current History (Feb., 1923; pgs. 758-764) by Arthur Tremaine Chester, son of Admiral Chester is true? If so, do you have something on this Antheramine guy? Thanks in advance.

DominO, I can't fathom this coming from a man of your knowledge. Fake “Azerbaijan” is Turkey is fake “Azerbaijan”. Artsakh issue is Armenian Genocide is Artsakh issue. I know you are the cool-headed, rationalist/pragmatist and probably you take people like me as mere dreamers, however, I can't believe you of all people can even think the Turk will ever give. The more you retreat, the more rabid, greedy, bloodthirsty and brazen they become. Not a thing not an inch: they already have 90% of our homeland. 30 million Armenians should be living in a country of about 300,000 square km as of today. It could be the Switzerland + Japan of the region. A prosperous, cultural, highly civilized country whose influence would rub off on the neighboring states and the region could have been the most peaceful, democratic and developed in Asia had it not been for the Turkic savageries of only from mid 19th century to 1920s. How can you forgive and forget and think this evil, murderous wolves in shape of man are good intentioned? Do you really think they are here for bargaining? When in the aftermath of the 1917 Judeo-Bolshevik messy blood fest the Armenian territory under Russian rule was separated from Russia, the genocidal Turk who had exterminated the entire Armenian nation living in Turk occupied Armenia and Asia Minor, devised a diabolical plan to prevent the liberation of that part of Armenia and the establishment of an Armenian state there. Turkey counterfeited fake “Azerbaijan” on an indefinite territory, masquerading the primitive Tatar leftovers of Oghuz invasions that lived according to a backward, tribal clan system, as the core of the bogus “nation”, hoping it would swallow the entire Russian Armenia. It was only the bravery of our people in 1918 Sardarabad, Bash-Abaran, Kara Kilise war that allowed our nation to resurrect the Armenian state once more albeit on a much smaller territory, 60% of which was yet again torn apart after the bestial, sodomizing orgy between the Jew-Tatar ogre Lenin and the genocidal bandit, doenmeh Jew Kemal. This 1921 genocide is as bad as the one in 1915 yet no one seems to care. This bestial sodomy fest virtually killed four million Armenians: the Republic of Armenia of the day with its 72,000 square km would be the home for 7 million Armenians today if this genocidal act hadn’t been committed. Georgia: about 69,000 sq km, population: 5 million; Fake “Azerbaijan”: about 76,000 (we have liberated about 10,000 sq km), 8 million garbage; Armenia: about 30,000 (minus liberated but still waiting to be populated areas), population: 3 million. All three have more or less similar landscape, growth possibilities. If you check Legal Aspects of Artsakh you can see the main reasons for the rejection of fake “Azerbaijan's” bid for recognition and to join the League of Nations, from the 1920 document, League of Nations Memorandum on the Application for the Admission of the Republic of Azerbaijan to the League of Nations regarding “The Transcaucasian territory in which the Republic of Azerbaijan has arisen …As far as “Azerbaijan’s” “historic” territory “occupying a superficial area of 40.000 square miles, appears to have never formerly constituted a State ...The name Azerbaijan which has been chosen for the new Republic is also that of the neighbouring Persian province.” They stole the name of Azarbaijan because they had their eyes on this region since centuries of wars with the Safavid Persian Empire. Since because of Turkic domination in the region these Iranians had lost their original Pahlavi Persian language and had become Turkish speaking, Turks wanted to usurp this region very bad. Because they couldn't do this after centuries of wars, they devised this evil scheme and they are working hard, brainwashing the Iranians of the region whose affinity is to Iran not to pan-Turkism. This has time and again baffled the Jews, yet they don't give up; see especially the Jewey Lewis plan. Here is why they rejected the fake state: From League of Nations Journal N17 of the First Assembly (Geneva 1920, Page 139) “The Committee decided that though the request of Azerbaijan to be admitted was in order, it was difficult to ascertain the exact limits of the territory within which the Government of Azerbaijan exercised its authority. Frontier disputes with the neighbouring States did not permit of an exact definition of the boundaries of Azerbaijan. The Committee decided that the provisions of the Covenant did not allow of the admission of Azerbaijan to the League under present circumstances”. Hardly two years young, the Frankenstein monster already had territorial “disputes with the neighbouring States”, because it was the reason why it was fabricated in the first place. Never recognized in those two years of its miserable existence, later part of the Soviet empire, fake “Azerbaijan” has never existed as a sovereign state, a subject of international law before 1991. It has never sat down with its neighbors to delineate its borders, yet our lousy politicians have brought us to the depths of an abyss where they have accepted to “solve” the Artsakh issue within the principles of territorial integrity versus the right of self-determination. And here the scum in the caliber of the Brazen Bryza, Daniel Fried, the NATO Shapiro (see his recent regurgitation), etc. constantly bully Armenia that as a result of lousy diplomacy has thrown the Armenian state in the web of such poisonous spiders. If I could wish a shift in strategy in talks over Artsakh, I would love to hear from a patriotic Armenian head of state affirming “without giving up the right of self-determination, we have decided to solve the issue according to the principle of territorial integrity”. Let them bring their documents and we would bring ours. They'd see not only did fake “Azerbaijan” not have any legal proof of Artsakh (or Nakhijevan for that matter) being part of their fake nonentity, it did not have any integrity at all. See, you too know it's not for oil. They are after the destruction of the Armenian state. Turks have never given up this cattle-herder pasture conquest. Turks have never, ever tolerated and will never, ever tolerate the existence of an Armenia of any shape, size or form. This is the reason they want more territory and this is the reason we shouldn't give in to any of their demands. They know it themselves. The proof, the stratfor article Global Market Brief: The Geopolitics of Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan which cannot be accessed freely anymore but that I have also treated in this post from And the Fraud Had a Name.

The Judeo-Turkic pack of scumbags known as the “International” Cryjew Group’s latest report on Armenia crosses every line of decency and is too brazen and nauseatingly shameless for words, which is even further amplified when you know the founders and most important board members of this “independent”, “non-profit”, “non-governmental” organization are rich Turkophile Jews and doenmehs like (all have other posts as well): Morton Abramowitz (Abramovich), US ambassador to Turkey; George Soros (Schwartz), the architect of “colorful” revolutions; Stephen J. Solarz who received US$ 400,000 from Turkey for lobbying for Turk interests; Senator George Mitchell, involved in a scandal regarding Azeri State Oil Company; Uta Zapf, the president of German-Turkish Parliamentarians Group; the Ukrainian oligarch Victor Pinchuk of Interpipe that operates in “Azerbaijan” since 2000; Kenneth Adelman; Wesley Clark; the monster Zbigniew Brzezinski, a board member of the U.S.-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce (USACC); Richard Armitage, former U.S. Deputy Secretary of State and member of the Honorary Council of Advisors of U.S.-Azerbaijan Chamber of Commerce; Mort Zuckerman; the alleged survivor of alleged death camps, Shimon Peres; etc., and Turks like Guler Sabanci, Chairman, Sabanci Holding; Ersin Arioglu, Turk MP; etc. What do you expect from this pile of reeking, stinking garbage? I have extensively written about this trashcan of cadaverous creeps in my And the Fraud Had a Name in the relevant chapter Debunking the “International” Crisis Group (ICG). Here from the latest intrusive, out of the line report (available as a 44 page PDF on their shit site) on Armenia from 14 April 2009: “RECOMMENDATIONS (who the fuck do you think you are? H.) …To the Government of Armenia: 5. Agree, ratify, and implement a normalisation package including the opening of borders (as if Armenians closed it. H.), establishment of diplomatic relations and bilateral commissions; continue to prepare public opinion for reconciliation; and avoid statements or international actions relating to genocide recognition that could inflame Turkish public opinion against the current process (the achievement of the retarded “Football Diplomacy” H.). 6. Agree together with Azerbaijan to the OSCE Minsk Group basic principles on a Nagorno-Karabakh settlement; then start withdrawals from Armenian-occupied territories in Azerbaijan (give historic Armenian territory to the sore fucking “Azeri” losers, the whole point of the charade. Noth the brazen commanding tone! H.); and pursue peace with Azerbaijan in full consciousness that only in this way can normalisation with Turkey be consolidated. 7. Make clear that Armenia has no territorial claim on Turkey by explicitly recognising its territorial integrity within the borders laid out in the 1921 Treaty of Kars. What the fffff.... :evil: 8. Encourage universities and institutes to pursue more research on matters relating to the events of 1915, preferably with the engagement of Turkish and third-party scholars; modernise history books and remove all prejudice from them; (i.e. deny the Armenian Genocide in Armenian universities and schools, say the filthy hollow hoaxers. H.) and organise the cataloguing of known Armenian archives pertaining to the events in and around 1915 wherever they may be located. To the United States, Russia and the European Union and its Member States: 9. Avoid legislation, statements and actions that might inflame public opinion on either side and so could upset the momentum towards Turkey-Armenia normalisation and reconciliation. 10. Raise the seniority and intensify the engagement of the U.S., Russian and French co-chairs of the OSCE Minsk Group until Armenia and Azerbaijan reach final agreement on Minsk Group basic principles for a settlement of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict. 11. Back up Turkey-Armenia reconciliation with projects to encourage region-wide interaction, heritage preservation and confidence building; and support as requested any new bilateral historical commission or sub-commission, development of archive management and independent Turkish- or Armenian-led scholarly endeavours to research into aspects of the 1915 events. Istanbul/Yerevan/Baku/Brussels, 14 April 2009” ***** And what do we Armenians do? The moment any of us mentions the J word, we brand them with labels, accusing them of biblical/mythological “sins” of anti-“Semitism” (whatever the hell that means), Hitler, Nazi, etc. All this because they can hide behind their through shoa business cooked and media inflated hollow ghost or whatever the holler-schmoller it’s called. Look how the holy Jew is mocking our tragedy and threatening the very existence of our state, yet we are hibernating…

This happens when you are a cheap whore. This is what I mean when I say the most worthless garbage ever to have been excreted from the rectum of the universe, Turkey is like an old and atrociously ugly prostitute that with an ultra heavy makeup manages to sell her putrid cadaver at an exorbitant price to the West and the rest when Turkey has nothing, Turkey is nothing. We always say Armenia is nothing, we are a poor, little, resourceless, landlocked country, instead of seeing the positive points, some of which shone during the Russian-Georgian war last year, not to speak of the significance of the Armenian wedge that thanks to Nzhdeh, stands between preserving human civilization from the victory of pan-Turkism. I go as far as claiming if Armenia cedes the five districts, the point of all these sonofabitcheries in the last 15 years and the crap coming from the three OSCE stooges, most commonly from that unpleasant Mattjew Brazen, it would be the beginning of the destruction of Iran. Why? If this happens, I. the “Azeri” filth will bring a million specimens of the sub-species and settle them in those districts; II. the Armenian wedge will be as vulnerable as in Soviet times; III. they will force Armenia to count their votes along with those of people of Artsakh, hence, the fetus (NKAO with borders illegally drawn by “Azeris” in Soviet era) will once again go under “Azeri” yoke; IV. the Armenians of what's left of Artsakh will be driven out; V. ultra confident and brazen by having got territory even when they had miserably lost the war they themselves started, they will use every means including military, to force Armenia to cede Siunik so that they'll have access to occupied Nakhijevan; VI. Armenia will drown in that Turk quagmire. Armenia: RIP; VII. with no more hurdles to reign in their wolfish appetite for territory, fake “Azerbaijan” will annex real Azarbaijan, the reason why this fake nonentity was called after this region; VIII. real Azarbaijan gone, the Kurds will definitely go their separate way, so will the Khuzestanis (bye, bye oil) and even the Baluchis. Thus Iran will turn into a desert with some areas around the Caspian and Tehran. This way the Jewey Lewis plan will materialize. We have to let them know of this importance of Armenia. First of all, Iranians must wake up and smell the pan-Turkist shit. What do we do about this? We call Turkish speaking Iranians “Azeris” and hand over 20 million additional population to our enemy instead of planning a policy to inform the Iranians of their real history and counter pan-Turkic distortion of it which they feed to uninformed Turkish speaking Iranians. This will increase the real importance of Armenia to higher than that of Turkey and fake “Azerbaijan” put together. It all comes down to diplomacy, something which our politicians like these miserable Edwards and Serjes are totally incapable of and something which Turks are masters of, which is amplified by the western media, owned, run and controlled by their friends forever, the Jews.

We can't go to court. We don't need to go to court. We should raise the issue and this is something only a sovereign state can do. What we, the people, can do is raise the awareness among all Armenians who in turn should put the pressure on the statesmen to raise the issue of Wilson arbitration, not the Sèvres treaty. Sèvres is irrelevant here. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the Armenian Genocide. This is not about reparations. We, as well as our statesmen, should avoid the slightest reference to the Genocide. This exactly is the winning point of it. It is a dry, legal matter and no “begging” of compensation for the Genocide which will always be denied through denial of the same. This is the reason I keep on mentioning it but it seems it isn't really being understood. With this LEGAL lever, we get the upper hand. We bypass the necessity for AG recognition and shedding of crocodile tears, a lever they don't want to let go of, exactly because they have fooled us into believing we need this in order to ask for reparations. I repeat for the nth time and for the sake of clarity: compensation and damages we will demand when Turkey recognizes the Armenian Genocide, whenever that may be. The agreed Wilson arbitral award cannot be revoked by anybody, Islamic or Kemalist, Ottoman, Young Turk, etc. The Kars treaty is illegal and they know it. This is the reason why they, together with their Talmudic supporters, illigally put such pressure on the Armenian statesmen to recognize it. There are many reasons why the Kars treaty is illegal. First of all, it grossly violates the jus cogens where two powers forced a third country to cede territory to the genocidal savages. But if they would dispute this, suffice be said in 1921 the genocidal bandit Kemal did not have the authority to sign a treaty concerning borders of a country, something ONLY the delegates of subjects of international law, i.e. legally recognized statesmen of a country can do. Kemal was an outlaw, condemned to death by mullahs and by the Ottoman government, the internationally recognized government of Turkey. His “republic” was only recognized in 1923, by the Lausanne treaty, hence until that moment whatever “treaties” he has taken part in are totally worthless and invalid, including the treaty of Kars.

You are 100% right. If a third of our nation could come to realize this and how they have fooled us into giving this worthless thing such importance, which gives them such a precious lever for free; and instead of fixing our eyes after waiting 364 days to be disappointed yet again which forbids us to get to the real important issue, i.e. territory; if instead of this we would force our worthless statesmen to raise the issue of the legally valid Wilson borders, we could: I. render this lever useless; II. put the genocidal savages into a fit of panic; III. get the upper hand, thus, making them forget about already free Artsakh (albeit partly); IV. force them into concessions where they'd do anything (including recognizing the AG 6 million times over) if we would leave their Turk whore alone; All this and more, and even the possibility that someday we would actually get the territory back; If we could be resolute about this, then we wouldn't look like such losers despite an important victory in our baggage, then the Turk wouldn’t, couldn’t win and they would stink like a rotten turkey. How sad that it isn't so and just like a conditioned monkey we are looking forward to be disappointed by the Jew infested Congress! Alas and alack...

You are saying more or less the same thing I am saying. With the sentence in bold you say almost the same thing when I say, “...this “recognition” game is simply a lever in the hands of Jews to push the buttons of Turks or Armenians whenever needed”. The difference is I use the term Jew instead of your imperialism. I hate this word and I never use it. It reminds me of Judeo-Bolshevik era propaganda and that of the Islamic revolution that turned the paradise we lived in into hell. I have always put it this way, “We don't need the Jew appointed clown in the White House to utter Armenian Genocide to achieve the resolution of our Cause”. I also believe that the Armenian Genocide has been recognized since the days of Abdulhamid by civilized humanity. The dealings and considerations of charlatans of politicians do not count. It's so that while months ago I had already said he wouldn't utter the G word, yet considering his repeated, dead serious pledges and his moves toward Iran, Venezuela and Cuba, Obama had kindled the tiny hope inside many of us, that he might really have the courage to get it over with once and for all. He proved that he is nothing more than a run-of-the-mill shameless, spineless, lying scumbag of a politician. We should know that they will only let go of this lever when it has lost its value. There are only two ways that this may happen, one impossible way: if Turkey recognizes the AG, second, if we change our strategy. ***** I copy/paste from the other board: Our present strategy does not work. It will never work. We are conditioned like Pavlov's dog and somehow we have convinced ourselves, the one and only path to the solution of our Cause is through the articulation of the term Armenian Genocide by the president of the US of A. Therefore, this has become an extremely precious lever in their hands while it costs them zilch, 0 penny, 0 cent! They are so sure that we will fall into the same trap that they don't even feel they should move a finger to make the farce look a little different than the previous time. Now, tell me, who would let go of such a precious lever, when year after year our eyes are fixed on the lips of a politician, to see the term Armenian Genocide drip from his lips, eagerly and desperately expecting that he might, just might, graciously let go of the lever? It won't happen! Yet why are we so stubborn? This utterance is non-binding and has no real political or legal value. Our Cause should not be the hostage of this utterance. If we really want to see this happen, we have to change our strategy. I am not going to repeat why the Wilson arbitration is the most valuable legal document in our hands. Check my many posts on the subject. What we, all Armenians inside or outside the RoA can do is raise the awareness for this document, tell our friends and relatives, talk about it in our clubs, etc. As this awareness rises, just like the Genocide awareness, it will rub off and it will eventually reach our politicians and it will put the pressure on them to raise the issue. This doesn't mean that the next day Turkey will cede the occupied territory. However, it will scare them and it will throw them into a fit of panic. You have certainly heard of the Sèvres Syndrome. This will cause the Jews that pull the strings in the West to put their legs down from the table, move their kosher asses and rethink their strategy. One of the first fruits of this for us will be that the president of the US of A will say Armenian Genocide 6 million times for every time he mentions the höller-schmöller. I assure you, they damn well know we are in the right and we have solid, bulletproof, legal rights to that land, this is why all that's happening concerning Armenia, revolves around cunningly stealing Armenian territory despite the miserable defeat of the sore “Azeri” losers and perpetrators of genocide and war. They want territory, first they want to force our government to recognize the illegal 1921 border of Kars treaty, treacherously forced on us after the bestial orgy between Jew Tatar Lenin and doenmeh Jew Kemal. They also want the land around the illegal, “Azeri” drawn borders of the former NKAO, namely the so-called seven districts. Ceding these will mean the end of Armenia, period. Whatever the hell our politicians do, they do not have the right to do any of these two: 1. Recognize borders of Turkey and fake “Azerbaijan”. 2. Cede a square nanometer of the liberated territories. If they do any of these, they will have betrayed our nation in the most shameful and miserable way. I for one hope if the danger of such a move becomes real, patriotic Armenians will do everything possible to abort the treachery, otherwise, bye-bye Armenia.