onnig

Thanks Sasun

THOTH, The Bible says that you are already perishing, but in death will God's wrath culminate to its fullest degree because your sins are still yours. God has given you a way out but you turn around and insult Him because you love your sin. It's that simple. Turn away from your sins and beseech God for forgiveness, as I have, before you die in your sins. Hell is real, you have believed a lie.

Edward, no I'm not, if that was a serious question.

well, if this is going to become a big joke then I'll ignore that as well, but as moderators, maybe you guys should enforce some of the thread rules here, instead of breaking them yourselves.

(ignoring THOTH because it doesn't sound like he really wants an answer)

People, you have completely strayed off this thread, if you want to talk about other religions go right ahead, but start your own thread, not here, stay on the topic of discussion please, thanks.

Hi ArmenSarg, No, in Christianity, God is doing the work, God has supplied the the unblemished Lamb, God opens the unbeliever's eyes and grants faith, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, has lived the sinless life, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, died for sins, the incarnate God, Jesus Christ, rose again. That is what I am mean as Devine accomplishment in which God accomplished salvation, man did not.

Hi Sasun, I have explained with my own words, it's in my first post.

Hi Sasun, My claims are only truth not by my own concoction but by what is stated in God's Word. Not only is it stated in God's word but these things are evident in the world. Look at other religions, they either deny sin or they think they can repay sin with good works. The Word of God is clear about how sins can be paid for, in Romans 6:23: "For the wages of sin is death," not good works. If one sins, one must die, not just physically but spiritually and since the soul is eternal, spiritual death is equated with everlasting punishment in hell, and that is literal. In actuallity, if one is trying to pay for sin with good works he is yet sinning again. See what the prophet Isaiah says, Is 64:6 "For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment;" Righteous deeds are works. And also, Paul says in Rom 3:20: "because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." and in Rom 11:6: "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace." and in Galatians 2:16: "nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified." and so on and so forth. There are many passages but I think I've posted enough for now.

Hi Sasun, The Apostle Peter speaks of one who is saved unto good works or can also be stated saved and then Spiritual fruit is produced. The passage in 2 Peter 1:1-11: "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of our God and Savior, Jesus Christ: Grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; seeing that His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust. Now for this very reason also, applying all diligence, in your faith supply moral excellence, and in your moral excellence, knowledge, and in your knowledge, self-control, and in your self-control, perseverance, and in your perseverance, godliness, and in your godliness, brotherly kindness, and in your brotherly kindness, love. For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they render you neither useless nor unfruitful in the true knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. For he who lacks these qualities is blind or short-sighted, having forgotten his purification from his former sins. Therefore, brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you; for as long as you practice these things, you will never stumble; for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you." If you notice, he lists the fruit of the Spirit in faith from moral excellence to love and then at the end says 'for in this way the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ will be abundantly supplied to you.'. If you have other questions about this passage, let me know. Also, in Luke 6:46 the Lord Jesus asks: "Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?" and in John 3:36 it says: "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." and about Christ it says in Heb 5:8-9: "Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation" Again, Christ is the key.

Hi ArmenSarg, The world has only two forms of religion. One that is true and one that is false. The false form will take on many names and many structures but it is still controlled by the same person, that is Satan. Here is the difference with Christianity. All the religions of the world are based on human achievement, Christianity is based on Devine accomplishment. Other religions require man to reach out toward God but with Chrstianity God has reached down and saved man. That is the difference. I can explain further if you like.

Hi Edward, Thank you for the welcome. Well, it is clear in the Word of God that Jesus is the only way. In John 14:6: "Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.'" Now to read this statement is one thing but to believe it is another. Please read my response to ArmenSarg for an explanation.

Sasun, I understand what you are saying. No one in this life will ever be sinless, we are born in sin. We sure can't live a sinless life either and I am far from ever claiming to be in that position. But the Lord did tell us as I quoted earlier that, "So then, you will know them by their fruits", so that the believer can discern what is true and what is false including who is true and who is false. Passing judgement is not a sin but passing judgement incorrectly is. In the same chapter of Matthew 7:1-2 the Lord makes that statement: "Do not judge so that you will not be judged. For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you." Although, there are several things you said that do bother me. For instance: Correct me if I misunderstood, but a Christian IS guaranteed the Kingdom of Heaven automatically, speaking of course of true Christians and not the ones from Matthew 7. You also said something about having a chance to be saved; it's not the question of 'having a chance' because everyone has that 'chance' since their hearts are still beating. You are either saved or you're not. The question is; Is one born from above like in John 3:3, born again? That is the question and the answer is validated in the believer's Spiritual fruit.

On the contrary Sasun, I feel every need to validate one's Christianity. In God's Word, Matthew 7:15-20, the Lord Jesus Christ is clear about this kind of deception: "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, you will know them by their fruits." and then right after that look how the Lord approaches these people who think they are Christians in Matthew 7:21-23: "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'" so the fact is that there are those out there who think that they are Christians but in fact are not. The Lord is stating the truth of it all. So to respond to you again Sasun, there is actually one answer, not many. There is only one way to approach the true and living God of the Universe and that is what my question points to; how do you (general public) do that and validate that relationship?

In the discussion of who is Christian or not, one's association to a Church or religious structure is not the validation, which includes their outward religious practices and the like. What makes for a true Christian; one who is saved from eternal hell? It is one who has been inwardly regenerated, a new creature, and in turn has professed Christ as Savior AND Lord by that enabling and so continues a life of obedience to Christ Jesus. The key is the Lord Jesus Christ and the fruit of the Spirit validates the so-called believer's position. How do you validate your Christianity?

In the discussion of who is Christian or not, which I think strays off this thread, one's association to a Church or religious structure is not the validation, which includes their outward religious practices and the like. What makes for a true Christian; one who is saved from eternal hell? It is one who has been inwardly regenerated, a new creature, and in turn has professed Christ as Savior AND Lord by that enabling and so continues a life of obedience to Christ Jesus. The key is the Lord Jesus Christ and the fruit of the Spirit validates the so-called believer's position. How do you validate your Christianity? (question posted to the general public)