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Sasun, If the comments are off the subject, they can still post?

Edward, I posted the question, if people don't like the answers, that's their problem, not mine. If they don't like it, they can start their own thread. That was my point, but Sasun's personal attacks have crossed the line. Call it preaching? Fine, the question was theological in nature, and requires a theological answer which will inherently cause separation. Is this board censored? I can't say something that may insult someone indirectly or directly but other's can say what they please about God? My answers will remain the same. Once someone accuses me of being "arrogant" or a "bigot" then I will tell them what the Bible says about them. If that is against the "rules" of this forum, I'll just go to another forum. Looks like the "People's Republic of Hye Forum" prefer it. Let me know, and I'm gone.

Sasun, Cry me a river. I'm the one that started this thread, if you don't like it, then start your own. I'm not going to sit around here and have people, like yourself, spread lies and deceptions about the Lord Jesus Christ. Call me a fanatic or whatever you will, what I tell you is from God's Word. Your beef is not with me, its with God. Whatever I've said I have quoted from God's Word. You need to deal with it, not me.

Sasun, You have no idea what you're talking about. Here's a passage for you: Rom 12:2: "And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect. " Your mind is mush, like mine used to be, from all this false religion that you have embraced. But God's Word can renew your mind, the truth can renew your mind.

Sasun, If that is all you can do is insult me, I will kindly ask you to stop. Since you are a moderator here, maybe I should inform other moderators of your childishness. Christ was right when he said: Matt 10:34: "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." That is with the God-haters like yourself. Do you not see your violent reaction to the truth? Amazing how true God's Word is!

not a bigot, just telling it as it is. and the other voicetrous ones, if you have nothing to add to the question poised in the thread, just leave, you're way off topic. It's obvious the mods won't take control, that's probably why this thread is out of control.

Sasun, It is NOT a small thing to believe in the resurrection, it is critical to one's faith as I explained earlier. And to the second part: I don't know what you are talking about here but then you lessen the importance of miracles. Other false gods may have claimed to perform miracles but they are either self-proclaimed or just trickery. Christ's miracles were witnessed, confirmed and acknowledged by thousands. The Jews even went on to say that His miracles, which they did not deny but confirmed in saying so, were of the Devil. Of course they were not: Matt 12:24: "But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "This man casts out demons only by Beelzebul the ruler of the demons." but Christ plainly answers, Matt 12:27: "If I by Beelzebul cast out demons, by whom do your sons cast them out? For this reason they will be your judges. " Here is what Christ says about actual false miracle workers, Matt 24:24: "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect. Sasun, that is who you have believed, the false Christ.

I've have already proven it. Read my previous post. God's Word is representative of Jesus' Words. They ARE His words. As to your example of the prostitute situation. Yes, Christ forgave her. Who is Christ, but God manifested in the flesh, who is able to forgive sin: Luke 7:49: Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, "Who is this man who even forgives sins?" Christ brought the covenant of grace where previously the people were under the law. The law required the stoning of a prostitute, Christ did not deny that. He did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it: Matt 5:17: "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. What does it mean to fulfill the law? Well, what does the law do?: Rom 3:20b: "for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin. " and now here is faith in Jesus, that the former prostitute had which saved her, Paul continues to explain faith in Christ as opposed to the law: Rom 3:21-26 "But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus." Sasun, your understanding of that passage with the prostitute is stained with neo-mysticism where everyone is good and going to heaven and that there is no hell, a satanic lie.

Sasun/Ludwig, That is not the only thing a person must believe but it is a critical point. Here is Paul the Apostle explaining it: 1 Cor 15:13-22: But if there is no resurrection of the dead, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is vain, your faith also is vain. Moreover we are even found to be false witnesses of God, because we testified against God that He raised Christ, whom He did not raise, if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised; and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. So a "Christian" does not believe in the resurrection then he is still in his sins, and his faith is in vain.

Sasun, I'm not contradicting Jesus. Would you like for me to quote what you said? This is NOT true. How cheap is that accusation?

Gurgen, I think you're referring to: Lev 18:22 'You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination. and then it says Lev 18:29 'For whoever does any of these abominations, those persons who do so shall be cut off from among their people. but it goes further... Deut 22:5 "A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God. and look at this... Deut 22:22 "If a man is found lying with a married woman, then both of them shall die, the man who lay with the woman, and the woman; thus you shall purge the evil from Israel. AHHH the good old days. j/k

Bellthecat, If God only showed His justice to everyone, then everyone would go to hell. But He chose to show mercy and you can care less for that because you think that sending anyone to hell is unjust. Christ is the only One who takes care of the sin problem, no one else does that. I've explained in my post on the thread, "Who is a Christian?", I think you read it. And since He is the only one that takes care of the sin problem, then He is the only way. Accept it or not, it's the truth. Sasun, Your explanation/representation of Christianity is not only false but blasphemous. To say there is no hell and then to accuse Christ of never teaching it, denies God's justice. You do not understand God's character because you have embraced a false religion. Those who love the Father love the Son also because the Son is from the Father. You should stop trying to represent Christianity and just keep to your own gods.

In that verse you have to define church, that's where there is a great separation between protestants and orthodox/catholic, but that's not this thread so let's not go there. Domino answered correctly on the previous page about those who are Christian, who believe that Christ is resurrected.

The right answer is yes: Genesis 9:6: "Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man." also, Romans 13:3-4: For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same; for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.

Hi Armat, There is nothing purer than the truth.

Hi Anoushik, (I am calling anoushik because that's your name ) The first misconception is that life is finite. For humans, life IS everlasting, and has always been this way since Adam and Eve. Physical death does not equate with spiritual death. When you say life, you must refer to the soul, the soul lives forever, therefore life is forever. Sin then entered into the world, and with it death. Now that life is everlasting, what does death accomplish since the soul cannot be destroyed? Well, death removes the soul from this world and puts the soul in the world fitted for everlasting punishment. So when one sins, they do not sin in a temporary dimension, they sin in a everlasting dimension because their everlasting soul sins against an eternal God. The crime does fit the punishment.

This thread is out of control, way off the question I asked. This thread should have been limited to those who believe they are Christians, not those who have embraced other religions. Too bad, no rules in this forum.

I believe I was thinking when I answered, I suppose you didn't read my reply. It was concise and to the point. Please read it. You're right when you say that Christ used earthly parables when speaking of heavenly things but that is not what you are doing. You are comparing an earthly form of justice, which is temporal. When man sins against man, justice is due and paid accordingly. Again, God is eternal, I don't know how much simpler I can say it, punishment therefore becomes eternal.

Sasun, You are doing the same thing TOTH is doing, you are using earthly things to talk about heavenly things, like comparing man to man. It is fair punishment to send someone to hell forever for sinning. You have to remember that sin is against God who is holy and eternal meaning no begining and no end. Therefore punishment is eternal. There must be punishment for sin and since God is eternal then punishment is eternal. Are you claiming to be wiser than God? Or are you claiming to be more just and merciful than God? Since all of God's attributes are perfect, including His attributes of justice and mercy, God must see to it that sin is punished or He won't be just, but because of His mercy, He gave His Son to die for sinners so that sinners my live for eternity in His presence and not in hell. God is either just or is merciful, He is never unjust. Men think too highly of themselves, making that blasphemous claim.

Sip, The paranoia is due to the warnings we were given by God. Hell exists, so what can be done to avoid it? What is the escape? God is not the author of sin, man is. Although man came from God, God, being omnipotent, can create a creature that can sin in and of its own, that does not make God the author of sin. In Hebrews 4:15 it says about Christ: "For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. " In 1 John 1:5 it says about God the Father: "This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. "

Sasun, I have quoted only from the Bible. Here is another quote to answer you, from Paul the Apostle regarding God saving us from Himself, 2 Corinthians 5:17-21, one of my favorite: "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him." and now from the Lord Jesus Christ, Luke 12:4-5: "I say to you, My friends, do not be afraid of those who kill the body and after that have no more that they can do. But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell; yes, I tell you, fear Him!" speaking of God the Father. Now Jesus speaks about Himself, Matthew 13:41-42: "The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness, and will throw them into the furnace of fire; in that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth." The Son of Man being Jesus. There's a lot more but I think this is enough for now.

Vava, 'Good' Christians will give you the full counsel of God, that is, everything that God is, not just his love and mercy and compassion. Once you know all His attributes then you will truly understand the fullness of his love, mercy and compassion.

Hi Sasun, On the contrary, the Bible records Jesus speaking more of Hell and judgement than He does of God's mercy, and love, because both are just as important. Why would Christ preach salvation if we don't even know what we are being saved from. God is saving us from Himself, that is His justice and wrath.

God is Holy above all things. All things exist through Him, by Him and for Him. God cannot sin and does not tolerate sin and therefore will deal with sin on the last day. That is why He cares if we sin because on the last day He will take every unrepentant sinner and cast him into hell, but as a merciful God, He has given his only Son to pay for sin by the only way sin can be paid for which is by death. John 3:16, "And whosoever believes in Him will not perish but have everlasting life." You take sin lightly because you do not understand the holiness of God and the wretchedness of man. You compare man to man as the standard but you should be comparing man to God as the standard. Man fails miserably. And yes, He does exist.

THOTH, Atheism is a religion, its worshipping yourself. You are your own arbitrator for spiritual truth. Here is what Paul the Apostle said about this in Romans 1:18-23: "For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible man and of birds and four-footed animals and crawling creatures." You have worshipped the form of corruptible man, that is yourself, that is atheism.