ARR

Gino, Then why wouldn’t you quote a reliable historical source? When were Azeris as a nationality first mentioned in foreign sources? Here is what I found about Caucasian Tatars in another Russian encyclopedia. It is in Russian, though. Азербайджанские татары, мугалы многочисленнейшее из закавказск. племен, живут в губ. Елизаветпольск., Бакинск., Ереванск. и Тифлисской, 1139 т., частью оседлые, частью перекочевыв. со стадами в горы и обратно. Большая часть шииты, меньш. сунниты. Фанатичны и склонны к грабежам. Source Link Armenians have nothing to do with that website.

Both Fuzuli and Khatai were Persians. They also translated into Turkic some poems but wrote in Persian. Sayat Nova too, wrote some Turkic songs, but that does not make him Azeri. I bet you would claim him to be Azeri too. Don’t pretend you don’t know that Azeris never had ther own alphabet to write in. Under Perisans, they gave you Persian to write in, under Russians cyrilllic, and a couple of years ago, you have changed it to Latin. I wonder why? You choose not to believe real people, but bogus data from expired Soviet encyclopedias because you live in imagination. This reminds me of old soviet story that one person was asked to bring a "spravka" a document proving he is alive.

First, I can talk about what ever I want. Second, why aren't there any historical documents, books, historical monuments that would mention an Azeri nationality? What is the reason for the change of heart of Caucasian Tatars that one day decided to be Azeris? Here is a clue; you did not have a written language back then. So, what ever the Russians, the Persians, or Armenians called you that were your nationalities. And Communists liked Azerbaijani the best and renamed you. Russians gave you an alphabet and taught to read and write in it. So what did Azeris start doing? They started renaming names of the cities, stilling folk songs, creating a "history" in part Turkic, part Russian, part Persian mixture of language that became known as Azerbaijani. A Kurd is not a Kurd in Azerbaijan, most Kurds were forcefully turkified. Shahumyanovk was never called Lower Aghjakend, neither was Stepanakert called Hkankendi. Those names are fruits of Azerbaijan's racist and anti-Armenian policies. Shahumyan for thousands of years was called Nerkin Shen. Just like Getashen and Verin Shen near by. There are no links on the internet, but there are thousands of people who lived there and know it. You can call it whatever you want. But people living in those cities know it better.

Gino, It does not make sense to you because you don’t understand it. Quanta-mechanics would not make sense to a first-grader too. So what my question has to do with city names? It is simple. Some 100 years ago there was no country Azerbaijan, not even a nationality Azerbaijani, no Azeri alphabet. When Russians came to Caucasus and took Baku from Persians, they met Armenians, Kurds, Lesgins, Caucasian Tatars, Persians, Talish, etc. After revolution, communist started a "nation building". They came up with Azeri as a nationality and during passportization most Kurds, Tatars, Talish, some Persians, got their new nationality. At the same time they allowed the newly created Az SSR to create a national identity, translate names of the cities, translate folk songs and even write for them a "history" in Cyrillic alphabet. In other words how can there be an Azeri name for Armenian cities, when there was no Azeri nationality back then? And keep your bogus links to expired encyclopedias yourself. I don’t need a link on web to prove a name of city. I can just ask the people who live or lived in those towns and villages. That is the bottom line.

Gino, I am sorry that you have hard time understanding written English. But if you go back and read my posts you will see that I was giving you an example after example. That paper sited on Armenian website "According to agricultural census of Azerbaijan in 1921" is a great example of changing the names of Armenian cities by Baku. Other examples of that is the fact that Baku decided to change the names of Artsakh cities to what ever they like after 1991. A question comes up, "Who in the hell is Baku to change the names of Armenian cities without their consent?" You can sign thousands of documents in Baku, but that does not have any legal binding because they do not have consent of people living in those cities and because they are politically motivated as anti-Armenian. Now, the legislature in Artsakh or Armenia can come up with a document renaming Baku into "Geotastan" will you in Baku agree with that? By the way, were you able to find a person with Azeri nationality backed by historically verifiable document before Russians came to Caucasus and collectively renamed Kurds, Tatars, Talish, and other Muslim tribes into Azerbaijani?

Gino, Like I told you before, what Baku names or calls are not relevant for Armenian cities and towns in Artsakh. It was a wide practice in Azerbaijan to translate Armenian names of the cities into Azeri or to change them to whatever they wished. However, the real name is the name that people who live in the town or village call it. For example you call you nationality Azeri. Find at least one person before 1917 revolution whose passport or another official document stated that his or her nationality is Azerbaijani. The Armenian site is showing a paper "According to agricultural census of Azerbaijan in 1921". And Armenians unlike Azeries do not change or translate names in documents.

Gino, Your links are from "Great Soviet Encyclopedia", a communist, racist, “turkophil” institution, which thanks God seized to exist. Great Piderast Lenin gave away all of the Western Armenia to Turks, after Tsarist Army had liberated Kars, Erzurum, and Van. Great Tyrant Stalin cut of Javakhk, Artsakh, and Nakhichevan from Armenia and gave to Georgia and Azerbaijan correspondingly. Should we be any surprised of pro-Azery definition in its encyclopedia? Lower Adzikend again as in the case of Khankendi is a name that Baku came up according to its racist, anti-Armenian policies that rooted in 1920. As it is very common for your nation to change alphabets several times, to come up with new names for cities, and even to come up with a new nationality like "Azerbaijani" for yourselves, it is very different with Armenians. Even after Nerqin Shen was renamed Shahumyanovsk by Communist Party, its inhabitants still called it Nerqin Shen as did their ancestors for thousands of years. Hey, why dont you search the Great Soviet Encyclopedia for Lenin, Stalin, and other bastards and see what kind "heroes" they were?

Dear Azeri "friend" Gino, For your information Stepanakert has nothing to do with Stepan Shahumyan. There are many Stepans in Armenian history. Stepanakert literally means built by Stepan. Just like Mardakert, which means built by people. Kert or Kertel is an Armenian word of Persian origin meaning build, create with hands. Not to be confused with Krtel that means to castrate. As for Stepan Shahumyan, in his last name was created a raion Shahumyan in the north Artsakh, and a town of Nerqin Shen was renamed Shahumyanovsk.

Gino, keep your Aziri propaganda away! Kashatagh means kash - low or lower, tagh means - neighborhood! The name Lachin was given after 1920 when Artsakh illegally was put within Az SSR. Envy Azeries came up with name Khankendi in 1991, when Artskah proclaimed independence. Real name is Stepanakert, which is self-explanatory. Jebrayil is not part of Artsakh and has nothing to do with Armenians. It was just a stronghold of Azeries from where they used to pound Armenian villages and cities, which was eliminated.

It is so typical of most Armenians to see grand conspiracy in everything. An international organization like IMF with its wealthy supporters has nothing to do but under the name of poverty reduction plan to bankrupt already socio-economically devastated countries. There is a link to IMF's Armenia mission statement: Armenia -- Mission Concluding Statement Yes, IMF gives money with preconditions and those conditions are aimed at keeping the funding on its intended targets not on something else. After all, what can you offer instead of IMF loans to a cash-trapped country like Armenia that is need of cheap money to solve its socio-economic problems?

Can anyone lend me $1,000,000 for 10 years with annual interest rate of 0.5%? Or even $1,000? Malaysia and Taiwan have built up so much in capital investment in manufacturing that local capitalist bankers want to make their own lending with higher rates. IMF in that case represents a competition to local Bankers. I hope one day Armenia will have enough strong businesses that would rather compete with IMF. But in the meanwhile, Armenia needs cheap money to develop small-businesses, create jobs, increase tax collection, etc. Anyways, my loan request is pretty serious, only a fool will not take money on such terms.

Dear anileve, Don't you think IMF knows a little more about economy than you?

Sasun, I agree with you for the most part except Armenia is actually less corrupt then Georgia, which was recently published by an international organization. If I remember correctly Armenia ranked 75th, while Georgia and Azerbaijan 123rd. Also, Armenia is more democratic. Kocharian does not really have a real opposition except for a bunch of envied ex-prime ministers, ex-ministers, sons and brothers of ex-you name it. Stephan Demirchian is a dummy whose only quality is his dad’s name. Artashes Geghamyan is a demagogue who is unhappy with everything his eyes see or don’t see. Vazgen Manukian lacks a backbone by switching sides to many times he has no respect. Kocharian might not have won with 80%, but surely he got over 50% of votes. I think after 5 years most people will realize that he was the right choice.

The International Monetary Fund has formally disbursed a fresh $14 million loan to Armenia in a further endorsement of its government’s policies accompanied by robust economic growth and increased fiscal discipline. A senior IMF official was quoted on Tuesday as praising the country’s “very strong economic performance,” while Armenian Finance and Economy Minister Vartan Khachatrian said his government will continue to borrow from the fund. armenialiberty.org It looks like opposition’s claims that Kocharyan and his government are inflating economic growth rate are not true. Armenia is seeing an unprecedented 15% economic growth.

I get plenty of news about Armenia. And if you follow the trial, the testimonies, etc, it becomes pretty clear he did it. Most people who defend him don’t have any factual evidence except for feelings and passion. I feel sorry for judge in the case; you should have seen how he gets interrupted, how defense lawyers try to teach him how to do his job instead of presenting a sound defense. However, "kardabalet" did not work this time and the court had enough factual and testimonial evidence from several sources to actually prove he did it. The times of outlaw for brother of Sparapet and dummy ex-prime minister have passed. Tigran Naghdalyan was pretty racy in his pre-election programs, but killing another person should not go unpunished.

ARR what does this have to do with elections? Armen Sarkisian by ordering Tigran Naghdalyan was helping his brother Aram and his friend Stephan Demirchian to get elected. Tigran Naghdalyan was a fierce critic of Stephan and Aram and a supporter of Kocharyan. For the first time in Armenia, justice has been served. But Armen Sarkisan should have been sentenced to life in prison.

Trucks packed with explosives blew up at a London-based bank and the British consulate Thursday, killing at least 26 people and wounding nearly 450. The worst terrorist bombing in Turkey’s history coincided with President Bush’s trip to Britain.

Court sentences Armen Sarkisian to 15 years in prison http://www.armenialiberty.org/images/photo/Armen-Sark2.jpg armenianliberty.org

The point is not about Jews or being Jewish related. The point is that Turks the "allies" of the United States are participating in al-Qaida sponsored attacks. Recently the Turkey's “little” brothers, the coward Azeris, have been trying hard to create rumors and disinformation about Armenian "terrorists" in Artsax and linking them with ASALA. Then even being shameful enough claiming connections of Armenians with al-Qaida, which is not only stupid, but also funny. Now having facts about Turkish al-Qaida terrorists on world's news headlines, we Armenians should discuss it and talk about a lot.

I have read the article, but for most part it sounds like tale. The numbers of aircraft shot down is definitely exaggerated. Also, the role of Russians on Armenian side is inflated. All helicopter pilots on Armenian side were Armenians. Russian transport Mi 26 was flown by Russians up until it was shot down with over 50 civilians from Shahumyan on board over the mountains of Kelbajar in early 1992. After that incident and withdrawal of Russian forces from Stephanakert in early 1992 no Russian pilots were involved on Armenian side. Also, during the entire course of the Artsax war, Armenian side neither used any jet, nor had any. However helicopters were used excessively especially for transport purposes, whose pilots truly played a heroic role in the war.

Two Turkish suicide bombers and their Turkish accomplices who sympathized with and may have worked for the al-Qaida terrorist network carried out weekend synagogue attacks, Turkey’s foreign minister told The Associated Press.

Arrested Brother Of Opposition Leader Running For Parliament By Shakeh Avoyan The brother of opposition leader Aram Sarkisian is running for the Armenian parliament despite being kept in custody on charges of ordering the killing of state television chief Tigran Naghdalian. Businessman Armen Sarkisian, arrested on March 15, has been nominated as a candidate in a constituency in his home town of Ararat in southern Armenia. He enjoys the strong backing of Aram Sarkisian’s Hanrapetutyun (Republic) party which has condemned the murder case as fabricated and politically motivated. Hanrapetutyun leaders told RFE/RL on Tuesday that they have already collected about 1,000 signatures of local voters, much more than is required for his registration as a parliamentary candidate by Armenia’s Electoral Code. They said they will submit the signatures and other registration documents to the local election commission later this week. Armenian law allows individuals kept in pre-trial detention to contest various-level elections. Hanrapetutyun, which is a key member of the opposition Artarutyun (Justice) alliance, hopes that Armen Sarkisian’s election to the parliament would deal a blow to the credibility of the charges leveled by state prosecutors. The prosecutors insist that they have compelling evidence showing that the suspect paid one of his distant relatives, Hovannes Harutiunian, $75,000 to arrange Naghdalian’s shooting last December. Hovannisian’s videotaped confession was recently aired by state television. Sarkisian, however, has denied any involvement in Naghdalian’s death. His lawyers say he was blackmailed by Harutiunian. Further details of the case are not yet known. A top prosecutor told RFE/RL earlier that the ongoing criminal investigation will likely be completed and sent to court before the elections. Sarkisian is vying for the parliament seat from the Ararat constituency along with seven other candidates. The most influential of them is Firdus Zakarian, a deputy mayor of Yerevan backed by Prime Minister Andranik Markarian’s Republican Party. Incidentally, Zakarian was a longtime friend of Sarkisian’s second brother Vazgen who was assassinated in the 1999 terrorist attack on the National Assembly. Ararat and surrounding areas have been the Sarkisian family’s political stronghold for much of the past decade. www.armenianliberty.com

It is the truth, Why don't you guys count the number of posts with regard to Armenian Republic, Armenian President, Artsax, Armenian culture that are in negative tone and compare it the once that are positive, you would see that overwhelming majority of post are portraying almost everything about Armenia or Armenianness negatively. Maybe it is a national trend, but I doubt it. No wounded people on this forum are more interested in the topic of "why girls like black guys" than in "helping a sick little girl from Armenia".

Andranik, If you carfully read some of the post on this forum especially with regard to Artsax and recent elections in Armenia, you would conclude that some of the forum members are oppenly anti-armenian.

quote:Originally posted by alpha: Lastly those of you who are interested to reading impartial news from Armenia check out Radio Free Europe website. http://www.armenialiberty.org Radio Free Europe is a pro western news agency. It tends to put to much attention on opposition for the sake of opposition. For example instead of publishing the arguments that the Armenian procecuters had in arresting Armen Sarkisian in Tigran Naghdalian's case, they publish that Mrs. Gretta said she did not brought up a murderer and demands release. Most of you people, live in the United States, just imagine what would happen if protesters here start insulting policemen or politicians. Just a few days ago police arrested 1300 anti-war protester in San Francisco. Several hundreds of protesters were arrested in NY, Chicago, Washington DC. In Spain police were shooting rubber bullets and using water guns to calm protests. Does Radio Free Europe defend those protesters? [ March 25, 2003, 01:47 PM: Message edited by: ARR ]