DominO123 Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 So, what's the take of the Canadian members. Vava, Zareh...? We're left between a dictatorial party (since it doesn't have a real alternative), and a Right à la Bush Party. Who should win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 16, 2006 Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 How quickly Canadians forget. They're about to elect the leader of the (ex) Reform party - if "Standing up for Canada" means standing up for zenophobia, homophobia, american-style private healthcare and corporate tax cuts, then I'm going to have to move south of the border. The smartest thing that Reform did, was to re-brand themselves as 'Conservatives'. And now, what a pickle we're in... Actually, I don't mind so much if it's a minority - the Liberals need a wake up call. Twelve years has infected their thinking - they were acted as thought they're infallible. So the Conservatives in a minority government will have the additional challenge of reigning-in their hard-liners for an extended period of time if they want to continue portraying themselves as moderates - not to mention honouring their fiscally irresponsible promises. If it's a minoirty I give it less than two years. And I think I'll vote Green - just to at least try to send the message to Harper and his cronies that Kyoto *IS* important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2006 How quickly Canadians forget. They're about to elect the leader of the (ex) Reform party - if "Standing up for Canada" means standing up for zenophobia, homophobia, american-style private healthcare and corporate tax cuts, then I'm going to have to move south of the border. The smartest thing that Reform did, was to re-brand themselves as 'Conservatives'. And now, what a pickle we're in... Actually, I don't mind so much if it's a minority - the Liberals need a wake up call. Twelve years has infected their thinking - they were acted as thought they're infallible. So the Conservatives in a minority government will have the additional challenge of reigning-in their hard-liners for an extended period of time if they want to continue portraying themselves as moderates - not to mention honouring their fiscally irresponsible promises. If it's a minoirty I give it less than two years. And I think I'll vote Green - just to at least try to send the message to Harper and his cronies that Kyoto *IS* important. My feelings exactly. But the real problem is that we do not have an alternative to the liberals, if ever the Conservatives take power, they will try to hold on power, being minority and during the next election after this one, they will stend no chance with the craps they will do and fail. We will again end up with the Liberals, because there is no party at all that can replace them. The long term solution would be to dump a bunch of intellectuals and reasonate people in the NDP party, and expect that one day they could be an alternatives. I will probably vote for the Green too, or NPD... this time the Bloc isen't going to have my vote, because of the irresponsable st they've done here in Quebec. I think they are responsable of the success of the Conservatives here..., also, I really question the intelligence of a French Quebecer who vote for the Conservatives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 ...during the next election after this one, they will stend no chance with the craps they will do and fail. ahhhh, exactly what I use to say 2-3 years ago with the conservatives and uncle Bush down here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 17, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 ahhhh, exactly what I use to say 2-3 years ago with the conservatives and uncle Bush down here. Bwaaaaa... If they win two elections, there will be no Canada left, the moron will make it join to the US as another state. But by then, the Quebecers will vote yes to a next referundum and we'll finally have a state. Don't worry Azat, you will just have to reshedule your retirement, you'll move to the Republic of Quebec insteed of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 It's between the s**t that is Chretien's legacy and right wing Bushites! unfortunately the NDP has not made inroads in Quebec but hopefully that will change because I already voted NDP today in advanced voting, As for the Green party,they simply "hijacked" the name from European parties but in fact have little to do with true "green" ideology. Their leader is an ex-so-called red conservative and is simply talking about how to advocate "good business"with what he says "in an environmently friendy atmosphere" ...yeah right!! I'm suspicious about this guy. The key in having a good system here is to have propotional representation so that no party with a 35-40% of popular vote ends up gaining majority seats and form a majority government. which happened in the second Chretien Liberal term. This is what I think would be the best scenario for this election: -Conservatives should win a minority......Paul Martin's head rolls, as it should! -Liberals and NDP (perhaps Block also) will force an election in a year or two.....Harper's head rolls, as it should. -Liberals come back with a majority with a new leader and hpefully with a strong NDP in opposition. A better scenario of course is an outright NDP majority...but that would never happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 17, 2006 Report Share Posted January 17, 2006 About Harris: True leftists mistrust him because he advocates good business practices - the moderates mistrust him because he puts environmental concerns ahead of other political issues. What a vote for his party accomplishes - if there's enough of them, of course - is to send a message to mainstream parties that: a sustainable energy plan, the responsable treatment of natural resources and a commitment towards environmentally friendly policies are key to this country's future properity. We cannot compromise on these issues without undesirable consequences for future generations. Zareh, I like your scenario - but for two things. The conservatives are precariously close to majority government. The NDP is going to lose its credibility quickly with fanatically 'gauchiste' types like Leo-Paul Lauzon, who seems like a really intelligent person until he starts going on about *Nationalising* the oil & gas industries in canada. That sort of thing happens in 3rd-world countries not in Canada! The second we 'seize' the assets of multinationals - poof! there goes all the foreign investment in this country. Jeeez - I like the NDP, but let's not turn things over to comrade Lauzon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 About Harris: True leftists mistrust him because he advocates good business practices - the moderates mistrust him because he puts environmental concerns ahead of other political issues. What a vote for his party accomplishes - if there's enough of them, of course - is to send a message to mainstream parties that: a sustainable energy plan, the responsable treatment of natural resources and a commitment towards environmentally friendly policies are key to this country's future properity. We cannot compromise on these issues without undesirable consequences for future generations. Zareh, I like your scenario - but for two things. The conservatives are precariously close to majority government. The NDP is going to lose its credibility quickly with fanatically 'gauchiste' types like Leo-Paul Lauzon, who seems like a really intelligent person until he starts going on about *Nationalising* the oil & gas industries in canada. That sort of thing happens in 3rd-world countries not in Canada! The second we 'seize' the assets of multinationals - poof! there goes all the foreign investment in this country. Jeeez - I like the NDP, but let's not turn things over to comrade Lauzon. vava jan, what nationalisation are you talking about, Leo-Paul Lauzon is expressing his views (as weird as they are) but it simply does not represent NDP's policies. Frankly, I don't know what posesses a party leader to appoint (if they are appointed) such idiots to run in ridings. You have similar candidates in Liberals and Conservatives too who say things that have nothing to do with party policies. but at the end of the day let's face it,people in overwhelming numbers vote for the party and not the individual candidate which inevitably end up way at the back of the bench. But I think NDP has a lot of points right on the money! and a strong representation in the parliament can only be helpful for all. I'm hoping 35-40 seats for the NDP, I'll be happy with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 18, 2006 Report Share Posted January 18, 2006 Actually, in my opinion, Jack Layton has run a fairly solid campaign. He's on the CBC tonight in fact - we'll see how that goes. I know that those are Lauzon's own opinions and not the party platform - but the party has too keep these guys in check. The last thing we want here is to re-elect that two-faced brat Lapierre. I'm not as optimistic as your 35-40 seats for the NDP. I don't think they'll get that much - especially if fear of a Harper majority takes hold, and some soft NDP voters abandon ship in order to block the conservatives through the liberals. Martin is already setting his sites on the NDP support. Let's hope for a minority - Martin needs a miracle, and Harper's just a scary Reform party fanatic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Well so far it looks like the Conservatives managed to eak out their minority - but it's slim. And with the house figures the way they're stacking up, I don't think this government will hold. So far CBC reports: CON 124 36.35% LIB 103 30.10% BQ 51 10.53% NDP 29 17.45% IND 1 0.52% Not bad progress for the NDP - I knew that it would be tough for them to crack the 30 seat mark. I figured the Liberals would get somewhere in the visinity of 85-95 seats, so they exeeded my expectations - many polls had them at only 70 seats! I'm disappointed that Quebecers gave the Reformists 10 seats! These must be old Union Nationalistes! Anyway, we'll see what tomorrow brings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 Bwaaaaa... If they win two elections, there will be no Canada left, the moron will make it join to the US as another state. But by then, the Quebecers will vote yes to a next referundum and we'll finally have a state. Don't worry Azat, you will just have to reshedule your retirement, you'll move to the Republic of Quebec insteed of Canada. hold on !!! Azat CAnada es gnum ??? yerb ?? i need some parts for my car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Anyway, we'll see what tomorrow brings. -I think Sponsorship scandal will be put to rest. one head has rolled ! -Conservatives will show their true colours, Harper is a "softy" comparing with his Western red-neck members who will push Harper for more right-wing policies, I don't know how much the old Tories in Harper's party will be able to keep him to the east of "Calgary" ideologically. But if Harper is able to find a bridge between the newly elected Quebec members and the wild-western members of the same party then he really deserves a bouquet! Otherwise his head will be on the bloc(k), so to speak. -NDP unfortunately is a few seats short of balancing the power, so they will not be as effective as I hoped they would. But they are numerous enough to keep Harper in line. -Bloc will simply become more and more obsolete. One thing I cannot figure out is how people could switch votes from nationalistic/socialist oriented/progressive party to one that is right-wing/ homophobic/ and for big business interests. I know that he promissed a lot to Quebecers (not to you Q ) but they are so far appart ideologically... Canadians can be quite wierd as far as elections are concerned for they have given us a "pizza" parliament, with a lot of different coloured "toppings". I'm saddened that Bakopanos lost Ahantsic, she was very close to the Armenians. But again we have Dion, who a lot of people think should take the lead of the Liberal party. Should be an interesting mandate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 25, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 (edited) One thing I cannot figure out is how people could switch votes from nationalistic/socialist oriented/progressive party to one that is right-wing/ homophobic/ and for big business interests. I know that he promissed a lot to Quebecers (not to you Q ) but they are so far appart ideologically... Exactly!!! And what to say about the city of Quebec??? But again we have Dion, who a lot of people think should take the lead of the Liberal party. I doubt he stand a chance. What about Stronach? Edited January 25, 2006 by QueBeceR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 Quebec is a city full of old people - seriously, I think the average age in/around Quebec city is mote than a few years above the rest of the province. I'm sure many of the conservative voters were from the old Union Nationale mold - so that's predictable I suppose. All those ridings were blue in the Mulroney days. As for Stronach - I hope just she doesn't run for the liberal leadership. I much prefer Ignatieff - but I don't think he's got the contacts to pull it through. The liberals need to sort out their in-fighting before they think of coming back into power. I thought the Bakanopos riding is being recounted. The separation was like less than 1% of the votes, no? Anyway, more importantly for Armenians, deniers like Vellacott & Kenney (Saskatoon & Calgary south) both got re-elected. Harper did however support the genocide bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 25, 2006 Report Share Posted January 25, 2006 ohh boy you Canadians can't even fix an Election all you had to doo is call Bush or Qocharyan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Harper did however support the genocide bill. Just as Gilles Duceppe, Paul Martin, and Jack Layton did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Yes but many Reformers did not - and noe they're in power. I just hope that Vellacotte doesn't get a cabinet post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Here's something interesting I just found: A group that advocates "representative democracy has released the following. According to Fair Vote Canada: Had the same votes been cast under a proportional voting system, Fair Vote Canada projected that the seats allocation would have been approximately as follows: # Conservatives - 36.3% of the popular vote: 113 seats (not 124) # Liberals - 30.1% of the popular vote: 93 seats (not 103) # NDP - 17.5% of the popular vote: 59 seats (not 29) # Bloc - 10.5% of the popular vote: 31 seats (not 51) # Greens - 4.5% of the popular vote: 12 seats (not 0) Wow - those results are something like what Zareh predicted. I'm not too sure we need to overhaul the electoral system here, but there are definitive arguments within the material presented above that would support that kind of initiative. Les Quebecois would never go for it - nevertheless it's something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Here's something interesting I just found: A group that advocates "representative democracy has released the following. According to Fair Vote Canada: Wow - those results are something like what Zareh predicted. I'm not too sure we need to overhaul the electoral system here, but there are definitive arguments within the material presented above that would support that kind of initiative. Les Quebecois would never go for it - nevertheless it's something to think about. Vava, if this kind of thing was to be applied, we will rarely get a majority government, when was the last time that the party that won the election got more than 50% I do believe the current system should be changed, and I already know one of the things that should be done. The financing of the parties should be based on the % of votes they obtain. This way the NPD will have more funds to organize. Also, all this party financing st., and benefectors should be seriously reviewed. The Bloc, should be replaced by a team representing it on the Canadian house and its power should be determinated according to the poprtion of population Quebec represent in Canada^, and for evereything that touches Quebecs internal patters directly, 50% + 1 . The decisions taken by this team will be according to Quebecs National Assembly. And then, the Conservative party should be abolished, a decision taken by the Suprem Court, on the basis that it's existance is against the Canadian Chart of liberty and Constitution. The NPD should then be the official alternative for the liberals, and the Green party having the role that the NPD has now. Alberta should pay a special compensatory tax. And a new law in the Constitution should be added, which restricts any party of the Ouest degised or not, be ever capable of forming the government..., no better, making illegal, or criminal the existance of such parties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verginne Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 Bwaaaaa... If they win two elections, there will be no Canada left, the moron will make it join to the US as another state. But by then, the Quebecers will vote yes to a next referundum and we'll finally have a state. Don't worry Azat, you will just have to reshedule your retirement, you'll move to the Republic of Quebec insteed of Canada. Republic of Quebec ...............blech. Yuck. Pooey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 What? Aren't you in Quebec Vergy? I would have though someone like you would support independance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 1, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2006 What? Aren't you in Quebec Vergy? I would have though someone like you would support independance. And to continue..., Virginne, are you not for the independence of Karabakh? Quebec has two resolutions regarding the genocide, it was also the Bloc that introduced the Federal Armenian genocide resolution. It has always been a very por-Armenian nation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted October 8, 2008 Report Share Posted October 8, 2008 New posts on this subject have been moved to: This Thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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