Maral Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) Anyone have any idea what the translation would be for a 'Madagh'? Edited August 24, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) 1. Madagh is sacrifice in English. Sometimes Armenians also use Ghourban as in: matagh linem janid - I will die for your "jan" (?) or ghourban linem janid - same 2. Madagh is also - a old Armenian "Christian" tradition when they kill a sheep to thank God for some accident they escaped or other that kind of stuff. 3. Madagh - the actual wrap of boiled mutton (the meet of that sheep above that was killed according to some rules/blessed etc.) in lavash that is distributed among neighbours or poor. Edited August 24, 2004 by ArmenSarg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 (edited) I am making a flyer for our next church services and I wanted to see if I could translate Madagh into English...I DO NOT WANT TO CALL IT A SACRIFICE!I'm going to be inviting people to a sacrifice that won't look right...we have it as 'madagh blessing" ,but that didn't seem right to me. Edited August 24, 2004 by Maral Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Maral, I can say with confidence that no western Christian will regard this as a Christian tradition no matter how strong you try to explain them that this is an Old Testament tradition. Once we took a visiting Englishman to Geghard with a couple of friends to a family gathering and one of them conviced others that we should impress the guy with our traditions. Well, the guy fainted. And was also shocked that the priest peacefully watched the whole thing with beheading You guys are not gonna do all that stuff, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Maral, I can say with confidence that no western Christian will regard this as a Christian tradition no matter how strong you try to explain them that this is an Old Testament tradition. Once we took a visiting Englishman to Geghard with a couple of friends to a family gathering and one of them conviced others that we should impress the guy with our traditions. Well, the guy fainted. And was also shocked that the priest peacefully watched the whole thing with beheading You guys are not gonna do all that stuff, don't you? Heavens NO! We will have the meat cooked and put in bread and wrapped and they will be offered to the parishoners... That's funny about the person fainting!I'ld do the same thing...how absolutely gross! I'll just leave it in the flyer as Madagh blessing thanx for the help though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Matagh - offering, sacrifice, oblation But I think "Madagh Blessing" will sound more accpetable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Ok done then as long as you and I agree ,that's the way it'll be thanx again for the help...now we can get back to helping Armat not demolish his house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Actually, the story I told was in 1993. But this tradition is alive in Armenia and the Church OK with that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 I am making a flyer for our next church services and I wanted to see if I could translate Madagh into English...I DO NOT WANT TO CALL IT A SACRIFICE!I'm going to be inviting people to a sacrifice that won't look right...we have it as 'madagh blessing" ,but that didn't seem right to me. You're not gonna like this. Do I assume correctly that we are talking about a Christian church? Then why are we advertising a pagan rite? It seem you are rightfully ashamed of it pagan implications. Where in the New Testament "matagh", as in sacrificial slaying of an animal is prescribed? In fact, if I remember correctly Jesus threw out all the merchants and moneychangers out of the temple. Merchants as in those who were selling animals for sacrifice. Is that why some people anticipate His second coming so He can cleanse the "temples" once a gain? Why then does the Armenian church still practice animal sacrifice? As to the English translation... "sacrifice" is the only word. Consecration may be another, both words are based on "sacre/sacred", holy. As to "matagh", I have not been able to find an explanation to its use as the sacrificial animal, except that the native word "matagh" simply means "tender" (premature), we will recognize it in its other form "matghash". Based on this one would interpret "matagh" as a tender i,.e premature (animal) as in that pagan tradition also known as the Old Testament the animals had to be young, pure and virginal with no blemish. Read your Bible again, both the New and the Old and tell us where "matagh" is prescribed as a Christian rite. Somebody mentioned "ghourban", that is from the Arabic, and again a non-Christian rite. In conclusion. Many English sources interpret "matagh/sacrifice" in a more civilized term as "OFFERING", in which case in reverse translation the Armenian would be nver, nviratvutyun, matuyts, matutsanum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Why not call it a "holy BBQ" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Why not call it a "holy BBQ" ? Just you wait! One of these days we're gonna have a RUMP-ROAST. And guess whose rump we're gonna roast. :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maral Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Why not call it a "holy BBQ" ? so I take it if we call it a Holy BBQ,you'll be joining us? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 You had me at BBQ And Arpa jan, as long as I am invited, I don't care whose rump it is (but I know what you mean ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 holy BBQ ohh this was a good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Is this Holy BBQ for that marrige party in the other thread? Sip, finally you're gonna cognise the Word of God! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 For a vegetarian BBQ is unholy (unless it is a BBQ vegetables) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExtraHye Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Is this Holy BBQ for that marrige party in the other thread? Sip, finally you're gonna cognise the Word of God! Then it's your turn Armen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 As to "matagh", I have not been able to find an explanation to its use as the sacrificial animal, except that the native word "matagh" simply means "tender" (premature), we will recognize it in its other form "matghash". Based on this one would interpret "matagh" as a tender i,.e premature (animal) as in that pagan tradition also known as the Old Testament the animals had to be young, pure and virginal with no blemish. Hey, I totaly forgot this meaning. Like in "matagh serund" - younger generation. Thanks Arpa! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Then it's your turn Armen Do you mean the eating or the marrige? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 I've seen Greeks do a matagh exactly the same way. They marked the cross with the blood on the foreheads just like in Armenia too. Vochxari tptrtal@ mi kich t'ha& a, bayts erb aklorov en anum arandsnapes shat dajan tesaran chi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 25, 2004 Report Share Posted August 25, 2004 Why not call it a "holy BBQ" ? Sip, this was the Gem of the Month!!! Yeah, it is popular among all Orthodox. In Bulgaria is the same and it is done in the same manner. It is called 'kurban' and the day specially designated for it is May 6, St. George's day, or whenever commemorating some event or when you got into trouble and found your way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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