Armat Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 (edited) This topic was split from another thread Edited August 24, 2004 by Sasun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 23, 2004 Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 Sorry mods that this is off topic but could not help myself Armen please provide evidance of Kerry's charlatanism or you risk yourself being one! Kerry's recond on Armenian issues is an established fact.No Armenian with character should trash someone who has been a true friend all along. My evidence is the undeniable statistical pattern of both republican and democratic presidents giving electoral hopes for Armenians before elections and then not sticking to them after they get into the office. U.S. foriegn policy does not depend on either democratic or republican values. They are for domestic consumption. The only difference in foreign policy conduct over long time already has been in the style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 23, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 23, 2004 (edited) Armen please provide evidance of Kerry's charlatanism or you risk yourself being one! Kerry's recond on Armenian issues is an established fact.No Armenian with character should trash someone who has been a true friend all along. Armen-My evidence is the undeniable statistical pattern of both republican and democratic presidents giving electoral hopes for Armenians before elections and then not sticking to them after they get into the office. U.S. foriegn policy does not depend on either democratic or republican values. They are for domestic consumption. The only difference in foreign policy conduct over long time already has been in the style. Armen First you generalize both parties on mainly Genocide recognition issue however there are lot more issues then just genocide. Throughout his 20 year tenure in the Senate, John Kerry has been a principled and effective champion of issues of vital concern to Armenian-Americans. He has led efforts to fight for US recognition of the Armenian Genocide; he cosponsored Bob Dole's 1990 resolution and is currently a sponsor of S.Res.164. He has led initiatives to lift the Turkish-Azeri blockades of Armenia and authored Section 907 of the Freedom Support Act, has fought to increase aid and expand trade with Armenia (he is currently a cosponsor of S.Res.1557), supports the full participation of Nagorno-Artsax in the peace negotiations and has fought to maintain military parity between Armenia and Azerbaijan How is the above make him a charlatan!You have not shown any evidance hence I got to assume you are the real charlatan,judging without any substance. Edited August 23, 2004 by Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Armen First you generalize both parties on mainly Genocide recognition issue however there are lot more issues then just genocide. Throughout his 20 year tenure in the Senate, John Kerry has been a principled and effective champion of issues of vital concern to Armenian-Americans. He has led efforts to fight for US recognition of the Armenian Genocide; he cosponsored Bob Dole's 1990 resolution and is currently a sponsor of S.Res.164. He has led initiatives to lift the Turkish-Azeri blockades of Armenia and authored Section 907 of the Freedom Support Act, has fought to increase aid and expand trade with Armenia (he is currently a cosponsor of S.Res.1557), supports the full participation of Nagorno-Artsax in the peace negotiations and has fought to maintain military parity between Armenia and Azerbaijan How is the above make him a charlatan!You have not shown any evidance hence I got to assume you are the real charlatan,judging without any substance. Armat, There are lot more issues where we can get information on Kerry's conduct as a politician. Let us not focus on Armenian issues only. Go here: http://www.georgewbush.com/KerryMediaCenter/ and read what a charlatan Kerry is. He has been unpricipled and ineffective on a very big number of issues. This brings me to a conclusion that he is going to change his position on Armenian issues as soon as his interests change. This proves his former conduct on Armenian issues to be a mere coincidence. This effectively makes you a misinformed and lost voter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Armen I thought you might have had a better judgment then visiting Bush site and reading trash, far cry from objectivity. Bush has overturned the military parity between Armenia and Azerbaijan which was established by Clinton adm.Bush has actively been against many Armenian issues including the latest about using public funds by Turkey for lobbying purposes. Let me take the opportunity and state that Kerry as a Mass senator has helped Armenian American politicians get elected such as RACHEL KAPRIELIAN from Watertown and supporting Armenian issues. The record is pretty solid. I rather base my judgment on the substance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Armat, If we go back to Clinton era, let me remind you that Lisabon OSCE summit - the single most heavy Armenian diplomatic defeat - happened during Clinton and with active participation of his administration. Not to mentioned how actively the Bush father cabinet helped Armenia in everything in early 1990s. Turkey's most strong threat to Armenia (military attack) happened in winter 1993, during Clinton and calmed by Russians not Clinton. As far as Kerry is concerned, he is just as much a hypocrite as Bush. That's the nature of US politics (and modern politics in general). They need to raise money and they do it with every possible way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Armen The main point is that Kerry has been supporting Armenians for long time. That is on record and that's why all major Armenian organizations indorse him. I would reserve to call him hypocrite, charlatan what have you until he proves to deserve those adjectives and untill then you don't have to vote but don't spoil it for others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Armat, If I were to chose between Bush and Kerry as an American I would chose Kerry. Simply because he can speak logically and is actually going to be the President, unlike the Bush situation, where you don't know who is the actual president Cheney or Bush. And most importantly you don't know why is it that way. Other than that, my personal view of U.S. electoral system is that everyone who gets to the top is a charlatan, which means he cannot fully deliver his promises. That's just technically impossible. Who is more or less charlatan is a different issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 Granted that 99% of politicians are liars (is it news to anyone?), Kerry seems much better positioned for Armenian issues than Bush. I think it is obvious. However, I don't think Kerry or anyone else for that matter could go against the US national interests. I am sure Kerry will deliver only a small portion of his promises, nonetheless he will do more than Bush for us Armenians. Other than that, I don't like his unclear stance too. For example, I try to understand his stance on Iraq war but cannot understand it. Is he for the war or against it? Sometimes he makes the impression that he is against it, and sometimes that he is for it, depending on how his response will support his election chances. But I would not go as far as to say that he will not deliver any of his promises to Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted August 24, 2004 Report Share Posted August 24, 2004 That all depends on whether his new buddies will agree or not when he becomes president. I think he'll change his 'principles' in a split second if that suits his interests. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Armenians know what we have in Bush, re: Armenian issues. Not a very good record. I for one would take a chance on Kerry. His past record is very good on Armenian issues. It could not get much worse from that of the Bush Administration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I saw an information somewhere that Kerry has rejected reports that he backs Armenian issues. I am not sure the information is right though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 KERRY DENIES ACCEPTANCE OF ARMENIAN 'GENOCIDE' YEREVAN, OCTOBER 8. ARMINFO. The US Democratic Party's Presidential Candidate, Senator John F. Kerry, put a damper on the expectations of Armenian lobbyists on the issue of genocide. Kerry denied claims made by the Armenian lobby in late August that he will accept the Armenian Genocide resolution. The Presidential candidate told Zaman that he contributed to Senator Robert Dole's initiatives on the subject in 1990, but said he has not made any statement that he would accept the resolution either before the upcoming elections on November 2nd or within the last 10 years. Kerry said, "Turkey is one of America's oldest allies and it will remain so." In the first round of debates between the presidential candidates, Kerry narrowed the gap between him and his Republican rival, US President George W. Bush. Kerry, like Bush, gave his full support to Turkey's accession to the European Union (EU). The Massachusetts Senator added that Turkey's candidacy is a must for both Europe and Turkey. He said if he is elected President, the friendship between the two countries will be maintained as is. At a Democrat Party committee meeting on October 2nd, the Senator paused when he was told that his statement that he intends to accept the alleged Armenian genocide deeply upset Turkish society and voters of Turkish origin. He asked when he had made the statement and was told "last month." Kerry responded by absolutely denying it and stressed that he has said no such thing over the past ten years. At a musical festival titled "Armenstock-Kef for Kerry" held on August 28, 2004 that was organized by the American National Committee for Armenians (ANCA) in Massachusetts, a letter allegedly sent by Kerry was read by Democratic Congressional member, Barney Frank. The letter conveyed that the Democratic Presidential candidate would accept the resolution on April 24, 2005, the 90th anniversary of the alleged Armenian genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 I am very up front as to my support for Kerry, as I was about my role in the Wesley Clark campaign and my support of Republican John McCain. Armen clearly is attempting to undermine any support for John Kerry among Armenians. Isn't it interesting that he mentions this article and then produces it moments later? The Armenian establishment (to be read as wealthy and socially conservative) have been hoodwinking rank-and-file Armenians for decades to believe that their well-being lies with the US Republican Party. In truth, it only assures the well-being of the affluent Armenians who are in charge of our community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Here is your answer. Armen is an avid Bush supporter Armen Posted on: Oct 6 2004, 01:57 PM Don't make a mistake! Group: Moderator Posts: 1432 Joined: 5-October 03 From: Armenia <-> US Member No.: 1446 Vote for Bush!...I mean would you give LTP a second chance? Vote and leave a comment!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 America-Hye, I don't care who becomes U.S. president because I know it's all the same for Armenia. I just provided an article, which - if it is true indeed - effectively proves that Kerry is not only a charlatan but also a lier. Same goes for Bush, with a little difference. Bush is a funny stupid lier Carry on with your campaign, I mean Kerry on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 Here is your answer. Armen is an avid Bush supporter Armen Posted on: Oct 6 2004, 01:57 PM Don't make a mistake! Group: Moderator Posts: 1432 Joined: 5-October 03 From: Armenia <-> US Member No.: 1446 Vote for Bush!...I mean would you give LTP a second chance? Vote and leave a comment!!! style_images/master/snapback.png America-Hye you made my day. Thanks man Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 If Bush had not used his dirty politics in South Carolina in 2000, McCain would probably be President today. Has Bush been any more supportive of Armenian issues than McCain would have been? I would have supported McCain over Gore. Bush is an absolute disaster as President. Why anyone would want to vote for him is incomprehensible, unless they are an avowed Evangelical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 You see Armen EVEN wants Bush as President of Armenia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 9, 2004 Report Share Posted October 9, 2004 You see Armen EVEN wants Bush as President of Armenia style_images/master/snapback.png Oh yes, THAT I would love to see. Just imagine, we would bomb Turkey back to 11th century! We would have 12 aircraft carriers delpoyed in Sevan lake! Oil contratcs with Saudy Arabia! A fine company like Halliburton would be based in Armenia! Dear God make this possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 Armenian National Committee of America 888 17th St., NW, Suite 904 Washington, DC 20006 Tel: (202) 775-1918 Fax: (202) 775-5648 E-mail: anca@anca.org Internet: www.anca.org PRESS RELEASE October 9, 2004 Contact: Elizabeth S. Chouldjian Tel: (202) 775-1918 KERRY CAMPAIGN SETS RECORD STRAIGHT ON FALSE STORY IN THE TURKISH PRESS -- Reinforces Strong Record on Armenian Issues; Stresses Sharp Differences with President Bush WASHINGTON, DC - The text of the Kerry campaign's response to a fabricated story that recently appeared in the Turkish newspaper Zaman is provided below. `We appreciate John Kerry's quick action to set the record straight regarding a blatantly fabricated attempt to misrepresent his 20-year record of principled support for U.S. recognition of the Armenian Genocide, strong U.S.-Armenia ties, and other issues of special importance to Armenian American voters,' said ANCA Executive Director Aram Hamparian. `Senator Kerry's rapid response to this latest act of desperation by deniers of the Armenian Genocide underscores the depth of his commitment to recognizing the Armenian Genocide, highlights the importance he attaches to reaching out to Armenian American voters, and dramatically illustrates the contrast between his record of principled leadership and the President's neglect and opposition to a broad range of Armenian American issues.' ##### For Immediate Release Contact: Mark Kitchens, 202-464-2800 October 9, 2004 RESPONSE TO FALSE REPORTS IN ZAMAN ABOUT JOHN KERRY'S POSITION ON ISSUES OF IMPORTANCE TO ARMENIAN AMERICANS Today John Kerry Spokesman Mark Kitchens issued the following statement in response to false reports in Zaman about John Kerry's position on issues of importance to Armenia Americans. "There is no truth to the report published recently in the Turkish newspaper "Zaman." "John Kerry's record in the Senate and his statements during this campaign have consistently supported U.S. recognition of the Armenian Genocide. "John Kerry is a long-time leader on issues of concern to Armenian Americans and is proud to have been endorsed by the Armenian National Committee of America. "The choice for Armenian Americans is clear. They can either have four more years of neglect and even outright opposition from the Bush administration, or a Kerry-Edwards administration that supports the issues they care about and welcomes their input." - 30- [GROONG NOTE: Here's the Zaman article in full. Over the last 2 days it has been submitted to us 8 times. --AB ] Kerry Denies Acceptance of Armenian 'Genocide' Zaman Online - Zaman.org INTERNATIONAL 10.09.2004 01:57 Saturday [some versions also dated: October 8, 2004 Source: Zaman Gazetesi http://www.zaman.com/?bl=international&alt...041008&hn=12850 ] The US Democratic Party's Presidential Candidate, Senator John F. Kerry, put a damper on the expectations of Armenian lobbyists on the issue of genocide. Zaman Turkey -- Kerry denied claims made by the Armenian lobby in late August that he will accept the Armenian Genocide resolution. The Presidential candidate told Zaman that he contributed to Senator Robert Dole's initiatives on the subject in 1990, but said he has not made any statement that he would accept the resolution either before the upcoming elections on November 2nd or within the last 10 years. Kerry said, "Turkey is one of America's oldest allies and it will remain so." In the first round of debates between the presidential candidates, Kerry narrowed the gap between him and his Republican rival, US President George W. Bush. Kerry, like Bush, gave his full support to Turkey's accession to the European Union (EU). The Massachusetts Senator added that Turkey's candidacy is a must for both Europe and Turkey. He said if he is elected President, the friendship between the two countries will be maintained as is. At a Democrat Party committee meeting on October 2nd, the Senator paused when he was told that his statement that he intends to accept the alleged Armenian genocide deeply upset Turkish society and voters of Turkish origin. He asked when he had made the statement and was told "last month." Kerry responded by absolutely denying it and stressed that he has said no such thing over the past ten years. At a musical festival titled "Armenstock-Kef for Kerry" held on August 28, 2004 that was organized by the American National Committee for Armenians (ANCA) in Massachusetts, a letter allegedly sent by Kerry was read by Democratic Congressional member, Barney Frank. The letter conveyed that the Democratic Presidential candidate would accept the resolution on April 24, 2005, the 90th anniversary of the alleged Armenian genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 I think this false report will be a true one onces he is elected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 So the article was a Turkish plant. We know what we got with Bush. It could only get better with Kerry. There may be some backtracking after Kerry is elcted, as Domino states, but the situation could not get worse than it is under Bush. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted October 10, 2004 Report Share Posted October 10, 2004 The Bush administration, and certain members of Congress; our two problems (i.e., the Zionist Congressmen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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