aitzolpari Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I'm a basque language student, and now i'm looking for the ethimology of a word: "Sirats". In basque means "fate, luck". But it's not very clear its origin. Lookin for it, I found many armenian web pages were this word is mentioned (this forum was one of them). It has intrigued me because there is a hypothese that conects the basque language with the armenian (as remains of pre-indoeuropean languages). Can you tell me what is the meaning of this word in armenian? Or else, where can i found an Armenian-English dictionary on-line? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 (edited) Not being any sort of a language expert, let me be the first to respond But no worries, we have a few very knowledgable folks around here and I'm sure they'll chime in, in no time. The root "ser" in Armenian, especially how it is used most often, pretty much translates directly to the noun "love" in English. "Sirel" would then be the verb corresponding to "loving" or "to love". "Sirats" I would say translates to "loved", but maybe "favorite" is more appropriate based on how it is normally used in the language. So my favorite food would be "my sirats food". Edited July 27, 2004 by Seapahn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 Dear Aitzolpari, could you please supply us some info/links as to this alleged Basque-Armenian relationship? Layperson here, but for me it just doesn't seem to add up. I would recommend the Depi Hayk - birthrightarmenia.org - website for the dictionary, under the tutorial section. It requires registration but is no big deal. You can choose to view transliteration to English as my snapshot below demonstrates: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aitzolpari Posted July 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 First of all, thanks for being so fast answering to me. Trying to do the same effort to answer to Storming, i'm looking for links about this subjet, but i can't find an english link yet. But i found many pages in basque. In one of them, there is a translation to spanish of an interview to Vahan Sarkisian, an armenian linguist. www.euskonews.com/0059zbk/elkar5901es.html I will give you more information when i found. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 (edited) Does my screenshot download properly for you? It downloads only less than an inch from top for me. Edited July 27, 2004 by Stormig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vigil Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 (edited) Hello Aitzolpari, and welcome. Try sending a personal message about you’re findings to Arpa. Usually, she is the one that replies to anything relating to language, however, in no way am I stating that other members are incompetent in answering you’re questions. Edited July 27, 2004 by Vigil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 27, 2004 Report Share Posted July 27, 2004 I'm a basque language student, and now i'm looking for the ethimology of a word: "Sirats". In basque means "fate, luck". But it's not == It has intrigued me because there is a hypothese that conects the basque language with the armenian (as remains of pre-indoeuropean languages). Can you tell me what is the meaning of this word in armenian? Or else, where can i found an Armenian-English dictionary on-line? It may be a mere coincidence. Although this is not the first time that there have been attempts to connect Basque to Caucasian languages in general and Armenian in particular. Armenian sources, one would be inclined that they would be the first and formost to corroborate, have this to say; "There have been many who have tried to find connection to Caucasian, American Indian, Etruscan and many others, yet neither have been shown to be provable". Many words in many languages look and sound similar when their meanings could be totally unrelated. A word like "bar" that means word/logos in Armenian appears in many languages with many different meanings. A refresher course in Armenian. "sirats" is the past participle of "sirel", to love, which in turn is the verb form from the noun "ser". There are several "ser"s in Armenian. It all depends on the vowel E and the consonnant R. Ser, spelled se-yech-re has two meanings, one as dynasty, sperm, germ, seed. Seldom used in the simple form, it is more commonly seen in words as "serund". The other meaning is "cream". Ser, spelled se-yech-ra means gender/sex. Ser, spelled se-e-re is the one that "sirats" is derived from. It means "love". It is a native Armenian word based on the proto-EU "ki-e-ro". How "kiero" ends up as "ser"? I give up! However it is easy to see that it is common with the French "cher", Italian cara,caro and Spanich "charo/chiero". Does the English "dear" fit here? Further. Ther reason the E in ser turns into sIro/sIrats, i.e I instead of E is beacuse the E in this case, not the yech, was not meant to sound as E originally but something between E and I, probably something like the A in the English "bad". The reason why also "esh" become "ishu" , and "eg/femal" become "igakan"in declension. As to the Basque. It may be simply a coincidence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aitzolpari Posted July 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted July 28, 2004 It seems that Arpa is right. The armenian-basque relation as remanents of a pre-indoeuropean languages seems to be a very weak theory that almost nobody accepts. But it's curious. Vahan Sarkisian, an armenian linguist has write a 600 words list with similar words between basque and armenian: toponimics as Araxes or Deba and ancient words as "ardo" in basque ("wine") and "ort" in armenian (also means "wine"?). If I found the list, I'll post it to you. Despite of this, basque linguists are agree with Arpa's opinion that they are only coincidences. I supose that you know this article: a evolutinary-like tree with all indoeuropean lenguages. The armenian seems to be a very ancient branch, but it's INTO the tree. The basque is OUT, it's pre-indoeuropean. In fact, they don't mention it in the article. http://www.psych.auckland.ac.nz/psych/rese...tkinson2003.pdf So, I must continue looking for an origin for the basque word of "sirats". I'll try with the old french languages. If I find a forum with people that helps me as well as you have done, I think that in a week I'll became an expert linguist. Thank you very much for everything. If some day you want some information about basque language or our country, write me without fear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 sirats also can mean lover. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 I think the possible connection could be through our neighbors to the north. Their country before being Georgia was Iberia, same as the peninsula where the Basques inhabit today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 I think the possible connection could be through our neighbors to the north. Their country before being Georgia was Iberia, same as the peninsula where the Basques inhabit today. Very good Gams! In fact I was going to come to that. Now that you have said it here is a test. Why, of all the people Armenians are the only ones that call that country Vrastan and the people Vratsi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted July 31, 2004 Report Share Posted July 31, 2004 Very good Gams! In fact I was going to come to that. Now that you have said it here is a test. Why, of all the people Armenians are the only ones that call that country Vrastan and the people Vratsi? for the same reason that they call us by similarly unique name, Somkheti. btw, i think Vrastan used to be Virq in old Armenian (or was Virq an Armenian state in the north?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 for the same reason that they call us by similarly unique name, Somkheti. btw, i think Vrastan used to be Virq in old Armenian (or was Virq an Armenian state in the north?) Very good Harut. Remember in another thread "Van" we saw how V and B are interchangeable as in Van and Biainili, similarly Iberia becomes Iveria and eventually Viria or Virq. Or is it the other way around, i.e. the Armenian Veria/Viria became Iberia. Here is another two. We may have talked about these before. Why are we one of the very few if not the only to call Poland Lehastan and Greece- Hunastan? Why do rge Vratsis call us Somkheti? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaunt Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 I have read that Huyn comes from the Old Persian word for Ioanians, Yauna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelina Posted August 1, 2004 Report Share Posted August 1, 2004 In the dictionary I have noticed the word scori I would like to stress that it is not an Armenian word. The scori comes from Russians meaning emergency I have no clue why they included the word scori in Armenian dictionary. The word for scori in Armenian would be shtap ognution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 for the same reason that they call us by similarly unique name, Somkheti. btw, i think Vrastan used to be Virq in old Armenian (or was Virq an Armenian state in the north?) I think there is actually a party in Georgia named Virq, looking out for Armenian interests. I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 In the dictionary I have noticed the word scori I would like to stress that it is not an Armenian word. The scori comes from Russians meaning emergency I have no clue why they included the word scori in Armenian dictionary. The word for scori in Armenian would be shtap ognution. I wonder if skori has anything to do with "succor"... Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
groul Posted August 3, 2004 Report Share Posted August 3, 2004 "skori" - is a distorted form of Russian "скорая помощь" which means "շտապ օգնություն"։ It is slang, and it is not something to be kept in Armenian dictionary. RE: Virq Yes, the old Armenian name for Georgia is Virq. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 Why do rge Vratsis call us Somkheti? Reference to the south? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted August 4, 2004 Report Share Posted August 4, 2004 if the memory doesn't fail me, somkheti was yet another proto-armenian tribe in the north-eastern armenian plateau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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