Just A Thought

[Harut]

Countries are made up of communities; communities are made up of families. To build a healthy, democratic country with justice and equality, we must start the process from within our families, for the country is the larger reflection of the family.

As long as we have families where equality and justice are only dreams, where patriarchy is promoted over equality, where curroption and fights rule, where the young is discriminated against, we can only wish for free, democratic country.

[Vigil]

Harut, I am just curious, but how does this tie in with RoA?

[Boghos]

Hello Harut jan,

 

I agree with you. Some academics even make a link between family structures and communal structures to show how certain ideologies are more appealing to them. In our case, it will take time.

[Harut]

Harut, I am just curious, but how does this tie in with RoA?

RoA is a country where democracy is being built (at least we are told so).

[Armen]

As long as we have families where equality and justice are only dreams, where patriarchy is promoted over equality, where curroption and fights rule, where the young is discriminated against, we can only wish for free, democratic country.

Very valid observation. I would add that corruption comes from strong (in negative meaning) family ties as well. Everyone tries to help and promote his relatives because in Armenian mind family is the first priority in everything including his professional responsibilities. This is why novorich metality prevails over everything. We're back to the times of Toumanian's "Gikor", when Bolsheviks redirected the development of our national mentality for 70 years. But now the shopkeeper/carpetseller metality is back in its full capacity in every level of Armenian society even among the so-called intelligentsia.

[Harut]

Our country is not Gikor that we repress, abuse, exploit her, and throw her the leftovers from our plate.

She is our dearest child.

 

Մեր երկիրը թողել ենք անտեր...

Edited August 1, 2004 by Harut

[Sasun]

Մեր երկիրը թողել ենք անտեր...

I think that we are all hypocrites, sitting far away from Armenia and trying to tell ourselves and others we care about Armenia. Perhaps we care a little, but let's be honest and face it, this so called care is nothing. Those few who have left behind what we are unwilling to leave and gone to Armenia really care and deserve much respect and admiration.

[Anoushik]

I don't think we're hypocrites, Sasun. Es bolorovin havatum em vor ete hnaravorutyun liner vor du Hayastanum karoghanair goyatevel inchpes du hima karogh es mi ayl erkrum du miangamits het kveradarnair. Es het kveradarnai. The few who have left behind had the opportunity to do so.

[ED]

Anushik jan bayts goyatevel u gone nvazaguyn@ normal standartrerov aprel tarber haskatsoxutyuneren, esor hayastanum mets masamb goyapahpanman payqar e gnum, bayts yes kavelatsneyi nayev vor ishxanutyun kam iradrutyun, miayn joxovurtne vor karoxe poxel, isk dran hasnel ay da urish xntir eh, ay chgitem ov bayts shat jisht e asel sa

 

"hay azg qu miak prkutyun@ qu miasnakan uji mej eh"

[Anoushik]

Exactly Edward

That's why we've encouraged our relatives (and continue to do so) to stay in Armenia. They experienced difficult times in Armenia but they weren't abandoned and we'll continue to help, just as long as they remain in Armenia.

[Sasun]

Anoushik jan, no offence, but if we encourage our relatives to stay in Armenia while we ourselves have left and are not willing to go back, that's exactly what hypocricy is

 

If the conditions were as good in Armenia as in the US and we went back, that would mean we care about conditions mainly and a little bit about Armenia. Caring about Armenia first of all means to go and live there and do something to improve the conditions, even if that means to have much lower standards of life than we are now used to. I am not saying that many poor people who are in Armenia are helpful, they are rather a burden on the country. They also may or maynot care, but many people do care and work in different ways in Armenia. There are not many opportunities to be useful for Armenia staying far away from it. Those cases could be when one has significant business and makes significant monetary contributions, or opens businesses and employment in Armenia, etc.. in a way that his/her staying in a foreign country is crucial to the way he/she is contributing. In most cases, we just care about our own lives and would like to believe that we also care about Armenia.

Edited August 3, 2004 by Sasun

[Anoushik]

Sasun, if we had stayed in Armenia we wouldn't have survived. Because unlike our relatives we wouldn't have had anyone taking care of us. We wouldn't have contributed to the improvement in Armenia and most likely we would've ended up homeless, together with our relatives... Actually, after the earthquake we were homeless...

So, my point is that my aunt, for example, knows that she has financial support from us so instead of worrying about not being able to feed her son she can go ahead and prepare for that lecture in the university where she teaches. The money that she earns from the university is really little, but by staying in Armenia she is supporting Armenia and taking part in the improvement of Armenia. This wouldn't have been really possible for my aunt without our support. And we all know that there are thousands of families like my aunt who get support from their relatives in other countries.

[Sasun]

Anoushik, sorry I didn't mean to include special cases like earthquake survivors or refugees who didn't have a place to stay. It would be really cruel to require people who have no homes not to move to places where they can have homes. What I was saying was about others (like myself ) who were not homeless.

[Anoushik]

Then why did you leave Sasun? Did you have a good job that you could support yourself pretty well? If so, why did you leave?

[Sasun]

Then why did you leave Sasun? Did you have a good job that you could support yourself pretty well? If so, why did you leave?

Actually, I was a student when I left, and as you know students are poor in all countries

[Anoushik]

We all had our reasons to leave. I think we, the Armenians who left, are being too critical of ourselves. We make it seem as if everything was perfect and good and we just left Armenia without a reason. That's just not so. In your case I'm guessing that it was during the Soviet times... Just because we left doesn't mean that we don't care about the well-being of Armenia, and doesn't mean that we wouldn't do everything possible for the improvement of Armenia if we had the chance to do so.

[Sasun]

We all had our reasons to leave. I think we, the Armenians who left, are being too critical of ourselves. We make it seem as if everything was perfect and good and we just left Armenia without a reason. That's just not so.

Of course, we all had reasons to leave, and those reasons were to have better lives, for ourselves. That's not a crime at all. If we help our relatives in Armenia that's fine and good. However, I think that's not enough.

 

In your case I'm guessing that it was during the Soviet times...

 

A few years after.

 

Just because we left doesn't mean that we don't care about the well-being of Armenia, and doesn't mean that we wouldn't do everything possible for the improvement of Armenia if we had the chance to do so.

 

I understand from your saying that if we could help Armenia in ways that doesn't require taking too much trouble then we would help. Well, that is still something and better than nothing. But what I am saying is that's very little care. It is better to say that we care very little about Armenia, that would be a truthful statement IMO. If someone wants to leave the country and asks me if he is doing the right choice I would hate to be a hypocrite and tell him he should stay while I am here supposedly helping Armenia.

In the end I think it is a personal attitude, a matter of personal outlook.

[Stormig]

I think at some point a person who lives under circumstances such as the above as descriptive of Armenia in the aftermath of the collapse of the USSR faces the issue of "stick around" or "do that which you have to do." By the latter I mean accomplish the things in life they are capable of, destined to do, in a sense. "Sticking around" and tossing opportunities is unfair for that individual's life, especially if he'd only be an arithmetic loss for leaving. There is no such thing as a brain drain (as I think of these things) if there is no environment for that brain to flourish in to begin with, for until then it is merely underutilisation of a human resource.

[Anoushik]

I think that we are all hypocrites, sitting far away from Armenia and trying to tell ourselves and others we care about Armenia. Perhaps we care a little, but let's be honest and face it, this so called care is nothing. Those few who have left behind what we are unwilling to leave and gone to Armenia really care and deserve much respect and admiration.

Yes, now I think you are right Sasun. Due to some unpleasant things that took place in my family recently and this forced me to rethink about this question now I believe that we are hypocrites as well. It's just so damn hard to admit it, but you are right, if we truly cared for Armenia we would all just go back and live there, facing all the hardships like the rest of the people left in Armenia.

[Sasun]

Yes, now I think you are right Sasun. Due to some unpleasant things that took place in my family recently and this forced me to rethink about this question now I believe that we are hypocrites as well. It's just so damn hard to admit it, but you are right, if we truly cared for Armenia we would all just go back and live there, facing all the hardships like the rest of the people left in Armenia.

Welcome aboard fellow hypocrite

[Anoushik]

Welcome aboard fellow hypocrite

 

It's sad, though, isn't it? And why is that? If we really prefer to live outside of Armenia because of better life then why do we constantly long for Armenia?

[Sasun]

It's sad, though, isn't it? And why is that? If we really prefer to live outside of Armenia because of better life then why do we constantly long for Armenia?

It is sad Anoushik. It seems like we want the best of two worlds and end up not having any of them completely: driven by materisalism we come here yet long for a non-materialistic motherland and are not satisfied by the life we have here. If we were in the motherland then we would long for an easy materialistic life and feel unhappy there too. This is a crazy world.

[Harut]

one thing that has to change in the people's way of thinking is the thinking that there are we the people and there are them the government. even with the emergance of democracy, many don't grasp the basics of it that we the people are the government.

that we are not only the "imaginary" owners of the country, but also the legal and factual owners of it.

[Twilight Bark]

even with the emergance of democracy, many don't grasp the basics of it that we the people are the government.

that we are not only the "imaginary" owners of the country, but also the legal and factual owners of it.

That's because it isn't true in a republic. You vote for your representative and pretty much wash your hands off the dirty business of running the country. What you are saying can approach being true in a direct-democracy, however. And the sooner Armenians realize their natural form of government, the better. But I am not holding my breath. We wouldn't do it until we see somebody else do it. So we should start working on the Georgians. [Edit: Except, of course, their natural form of government appears to be a loosely associated feudal fiefdoms; too bad]

Edited August 20, 2004 by Twilight Bark

[Proud EXPAT]

Parents from the Mid East, born in North America, yet left 2 years ago with great job opportunities back home for Armenia. I've been here since and I love it. Sure it's not paradise, not even close actually, and the rest of Europe is more beautiful, but I love it and I'm glad to witness the making of our new Empire.

 

I never twist arms for people to stay here. Everyone is free to do whatever the heck they want, hypocrite-mypocrite, who cares. Living here is not as difficult as some people think. And NO I don't have a good paying job at the US Embassy or USAID. No offence to those American Armenians that come here for those jobs, but I've heard many of them admit they will leave as soon as their contracts expire. In the meantime it's good to know they are spending at least some of that cash here.

 

You know there are some fields that have many job openings in Armenia that pay pretty decent money, unfortunately many teens here don't go for that opportunity and study fields that really have no future. I'm not saying they shouldn't follow their dreams, but studying IT or whatever else that has a good future, then studying history or acting or music on the side because it's a passion, is really the way to go I think.

 

To each is own. And for all the diaspora that just talk to much, get off your a_sess and give it a try damn it. It's not a big deal to try living here temporarly. I know otars (non-ARMOS) that live here, that don't even have good jobs, but they love it. Isn't that embarrassing for our diaspora? Especially for those that have never seen Armenia yet spend all their money on other stupid things? Oh ya, to each is own.

I'm such a hypocrite.

Edited August 21, 2004 by Proud EXPAT