bellthecat Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Saw this somewhere. Any more info, anyone? "On the morning of Christmas Sunday, 1933, Archbishop Leon Tourian, Primate of the Armenian Church in North & South America, was scheduled to celebrate Holy Mass in the Holy Cross Church on West 187th St. NYC. The Tiny Church was filled with devout worshippers. All morning the vested choir had sung" Peace on Earth, Good Will to Men". The congregation stood up reverently when a stately figure in the full magnificence of Ecclesiastical Dress emerged from the vestry room at the rear of the church and remained poised at the end of the aisle. In his left hand the Archbishop carried a Crozier of Gold with his right hand, holding a Jewel-studded crucifix, he blessed the bowed parishioners bound for the alter. The procession was led by a censor bearer, followed by 12 members of the choir, then came the resplendent figure of the Primate, 2 acolytes brought of the rear of the processional. Suddenly from the right side of the aisle, a figure jumped into the aisle and stooped low. In his right hand was a 2 edged butcher knife 6" long and whetted to raise the sharpness. Simultaneously from an adjoining pew, a second assailant threw himself on the primate and pinned back his arms, while the first one, with a pumping motion stabbed 4 times through the sacred robe at the Archbishop vital section. The murder was over in a few seconds, the figure of the Primate lurched forward, then fell prostrate the full lenght of the aisle. 9 men were eventually convicted. All were found to be members and officers of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (A.R.F.)" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 Well, it is how it has allegedly started - a new era in the history of Armenian Diaspora. This is what has culminated subsequently to lead to the separation of the Church and has served as precedent for butchering countless other Armenians by ARF in 1950s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted June 23, 2004 Report Share Posted June 23, 2004 I can´t recall any deeper schism in the last 500 years of Armenian history. As MJ mentioned the assassination of Bishop Tourian marks, simbolically, the ARF vs. rest mentality that should not by an stretch of imagination be discounted as a minor event. Perhaps the emergence of the Republic in diaspora terms affected somewhat this dynamic, but not so long ago in many places a ramgavar marrying a tashnak was almost a crime. And rightly so . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 I've heard about this before, except until today I haven't been able to understand what beef they had with Tourian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 24, 2004 Report Share Posted June 24, 2004 My mother was in that church that morning. She saw the whole episode.She was horrified and never forgot it. She wasn't even an church member. She was an Armenian Catholic who was there with her best friend who was a church member. Some rude awakening for a young girl. She rejected all her Loosavorchgan suitors and ended marrying another Hye Catholic. So much for public relations of the Armenian Church. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 My mother was in that church that morning. She saw the whole episode.She was horrified and never forgot it. She wasn't even an church member. She was an Armenian Catholic who was there with her best friend who was a church member. Some rude awakening for a young girl. She rejected all her Loosavorchgan suitors and ended marrying another Hye Catholic. So much for public relations of the Armenian Church. Only to find her own children molested by Catholics? What a sad world, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Only to find her own children molested by Catholics? What a sad world, eh? But what an amazing woman she was... She has dated every other celebrity American Armenian, has known every third prominent family and has been present at every seminal event in the history of American Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 But what an amazing woman she was... She has dated every other celebrity American Armenian, has known every third prominent family and has been present at every seminal event in the history of American Armenians. Wait a minute, I'm getting confused here - he's talking about his mother, not his ex-wife, right? I can't remember which one had the Anglo lesbian bi girlfriend married to Greek tycoon - or was it Greek to English tycoon? Never mind, we know too much already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 Wait a minute, I'm getting confused here - he's talking about his mother, not his ex-wife, right? I can't remember which one had the Anglo lesbian bi girlfriend married to Greek tycoon - or was it Greek to English tycoon? Never mind, we know too much already. Aaaaa.... don't remember....there was so much information... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 25, 2004 Report Share Posted June 25, 2004 :overload: :bleep: :bleep: :bleep: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Given both Martin's and Stormig's viper-tongued comments to others in this forum, I view their comments from the source they come from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Martin, The son of the founders of Peter Paul Candies and Avedis Derounian does not equal "every other celebrity Armenian-American." Peter Balakian's grandmother was not prominent whn she knew her. As for the Morgan-Vanderbilts, Carol Saroyan-Mattau, etc. she was in a business where she came into daily contact with celebrties. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Stormig, Perhaps if you or your children were molested by Catholic officials, you would not laugh about my pain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Stormig, My mother was a devout and religious Armenian woman. Your comments show how low class you are. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Martin, The son of the founders of Peter Paul Candies and Avedis Derounian does not equal "every other celebrity Armenian-American." Peter Balakian's grandmother was not prominent whn she knew her. As for the Morgan-Vanderbilts, Carol Saroyan-Mattau, etc. she was in a business where she came into daily contact with celebrties. As I admitted, I have forgotten some of the details from her life. Could you, please, present a brief essay, depicting the most important parts of her life (please no spicy details and do not exceed three pages, otherwise, I will forget again) so that next time I don't make misrepresentations? Also, when you are done, please ask the administrators to pin the thread with the material, so that it is always on the top of the list of the latest active threads. This way, you would help to minimize the possible errors when discussing that amazing woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Amerikanski, who said I was laughing? I laugh often but I can laugh neither with nor at you. Not that I care for either church, but I wouldn't have been tempted if you hadn't ended your paragraph with "So much for public relations of the Armenian Church"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 My mother was not THAT amazing, but the wife of my father'a cousin was. A woman who went to an American dental school and graduated as the first female from that illustrious institution. A woman who had her only daughter at 42 years of age. A woman who retired form her dental practice at 65, went back for a degree in violin and then played with the city philharmonic orchestra into her 80's. Some Armenians ARE amazing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted June 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Errr ... could we maybe get back to the actual topic. I was asking about the historical background to the assasination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 26, 2004 Report Share Posted June 26, 2004 Your little friends hijacked this thread, not I. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted June 27, 2004 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 Your little friends hijacked this thread, not I. Then why not help put it back on track, since you seem to know something about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 The Archbishop was seen as a traitor to the Armenian Cause. He was co-operating with the Soviets who incorporated Armenia into a Transcaucasian Republic, thereby completely relinquishing Armenian sovereignity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nakharar Posted June 27, 2004 Report Share Posted June 27, 2004 I don't see his unwillingness to make a sermon under the Armenian tricolore a justification for assassinating him. The flag was still seen as a Dashnak symbol during that time. The Dashnak hijacking of church services is what cost him his life in the end. As for his complicity in relinquishing Armenian soverignity. That's just pure - to put it politely- hearsay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-=VAHE=- Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I didn't know the Armenian Flag came from the Dashnaks. Is that really true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I didn't know the Armenian Flag came from the Dashnaks. Is that really true? No. It is not true. The Dashnak flag is red (like a communist flag) with some extra symbols on it, partially borrowed from the Masonic Fraternity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted June 28, 2004 Report Share Posted June 28, 2004 I didn't know the Armenian Flag came from the Dashnaks. Is that really true? Those are the exact words for which that son of a bitch was extreminated when in Chicago he declared, with interspersed x-rated words that he would not stand in the shadow of that "Dashnak flag" The Tricolor was never a Dashnak flag, it was the flag of the Republic, even if the majority were Dashnaks. The sad part is that even today some people still refer to the Tricoolor as the "Dashnak flag". The SSOs (shunshannaordi-s)! Where were they when their ilk were using the Tricolor to wipe their toilets with??!! Above all. What business that son of a bitch called Turian had to do with the flag? Is not his flag supposed to have the sign of the cross on it? Note; The SOB designatation is not my invention. Remember the patritotic song that goes; "Turian shun@ spannetsink yekeghetsvo mej". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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