Anything I can do/provide about Ani from here?

[ThornyRose]

Especially with this quarry business.

Let's brainstorm a little bit. MJ brought up the idea, but it has almost withered.

Who do we go to? What are our fronts? Who do we round up? etc.

I've looked around and found little coverage of Ani recently.

I might have to take a look into that restoration stuff guys' url posted by Steve a while back. I might even go up to them and talk - but what do I ask? You see, that's the point - I am clueless.

All I can say is that, for the time being, structures like the cathedral and all should hold on tight.

I've even thought of writing to a mining engineering magazine I've seen in the library of our school! I don't know what they'll make of it, but that is a quarry out there, and it is about image in the whole world if not in Armenia (and what are Armenians doing all this while?)... All fronts are welcome to be tried, no? There is no such thing as a waste of energy when you are desperate! I/we can do some research and I'll get this address, for example, and take a go at it with a letter.

If we can carry out enough action, we might later put these individual and/or joint initiatives together into a web-site, link it here and there...

Any ideas, come on come on come on. Refuse, agree, anything, get it stirring, get goin'!

[ThornyRose]

Speaking of magazines... National Geographic comes to mind. Wouldn't it be a hot story for them? I don't know how the wheels of the system turn, though, so I might be going wild at the moment.

[bellthecat]

I can almost gurantee National Geographic will NOT be interested. They are a very Nationalistic American publication and thus will not do anything to upset an ally of America (Turkey)/ Although the quarry is not a Turkish creation they will look on anything with the words Turkey and Armenia in the same sentence as a taboo subject.

Im sure there is a way of aproaching those people in Ankara whose url I gave you, perhaps just say you are planning a visit to Ani and want some information - Architects love to talk about their work!

Steve

[ThornyRose]

But EXACTLY what type of info do we need? Sure, I can go and "hit with all you've got and see what you get," but...

I think people can tell me/us what they think.

Any likelihood that anyone from Armen's group might take a look into this?

[MJ]

I think at least having precise references on the reports on explosions would be good.

 

Imagine how stupid our appeal would look, if it would turn out that it is based on rumors rather than facts.

[ThornyRose]

OK, good, thank you, MJ, that's a start!

[bellthecat]

Since I have seen and heard the explosions and seen the damage caused over the last year, don`t worry about it just being rumours (worry about it being all true ).

Steve

[MJ]

Steve,

 

I am far from implying that the explosions are not taking place and are rumors, and I am very concerned about them. However, I don't think that writing to a President that per testimony of Steve Bellthecat explosions are taking place around Ani ads a lot of weight in his eyes.

 

At least the ellmentary professionalsim requires some supporting materials.

[bellthecat]

I understand what you mean, MJ, but all the usual Armenian sources have been deliberately silent over the quarry because the situation does not fit with their stereotypical "Turkey and Ani - bad; Armenia and Ani - good" viewpoint. And because the study of Armenian culture is mainly in the hands of Armenians we will be hard pressed to find any other sources. But as I said before elsewhere - I don't think anything positive can be done anyway. However, getting hold of the original UNESCO complaint about the quarry is probably the only route to go for documentation - on how to get it I have no idea.

Steve

[ThornyRose]

I was wondering... Could there be anyone in the Turkish Ministry of Culture who would be "happy to help" (read "eager to defame Armenia") concerning the original UNESCO complaint about the quarry? That would benefit us...

I mean, this is all I could reach, so I can tell... http://google.yahoo.com/bin/query?p=%2bune...urkey&hc=0&hs=0

 

If that sounds kind of "workable," then that leaves us/me some kind of "tanıdık" (a known person) to help out. :-

Other than that, I might go to that Anıtsal stuff this weekend...

[bellthecat]

I just saw this, it is part of a story on the Agos magazine, by Tatoul Hagopian, Istanbul. It starts:

 

"It is already seven years that Turkish-language (with two pages in

Armenian) Agos weekly is being published in Istanbul. In contrary to

two Armenian-language dailies published in Istanbul- Jamanak and Marmara,

Agos pursues a goal to somehow tie Istanbul-Armenians with those Armenians

who don't speak Armenian. We met Agos editor-in-chief Hrant Dink in

the editorial office of the newspaper".

 

At the very end of the story is the following:

 

Q: People say that Turkey also carried out a cultural genocide, hundreds

of Armenian cultural monuments were destroyed in Turkey. Does Agos

write about it?

 

A: Here is the last issue of our paper, where I wrote how Ani's walls

were destroyed when quarries were being exploded in Armenia. Turkish

press wrote about it. I wrote that "do Turks have a right to speak,

did they make any effort for preserving any Armenian Church in their

territory, didn't they close their eyes when the churches were turning

into ruins?"

 

 

Steve

[MJ]

Thanks.

 

Over the weekend I'll try to bring together a preliminary version of an appeal to the President of Armenia, and will present to the attention of the thread. Then we can make the necessary changes and the edits, and will go from there.

[Mesrob]

Thorny in all sincerity - Are you a wannabe?

 

If you want to respond in inuendos, than just forget it.

[ThornyRose]

?
I guess Steve must be a wannabe, too... Oh, forget it...

[ThornyRose]

MJ, remember? I had mentioned him to you...

[MJ]

Yes, I remember.

[bellthecat]

What's he on about?


I will probably have some new photos of the quarry by the end of the week.

Steve

[ThornyRose]

Beats the hell outta me. I wonder if this is the same Mesrob on Armenia-Diaspora Forum... Probably not.

[MosJan]

http://www.asbarez.com/cartoons/2001/01may19.gif

[MJ]

Steve,

 

Could you provide us with precise references for the issue of the Agos magazine where the above material is published, please? Also, please let us know if you have the photos you mentioned.

[bellthecat]

MosJan - go and read at least one accurate history book!

 

MJ - sorry, I have no idea of which issue of agos is referred to. I found the article I quoted from on (shudder, as I say the words) AOL's Armenia message board (yeuch ...a glass of water please), so you cannot expect things like accurate references!

 

The film was posted to the developers today - back by the weekend, I hope.

 

Steve

[MJ]

Steve,

 

I have posted a material in the City of Ani thread about the explosions being supposedly stopped as of May 31. Therefore, the references may be of not much importance at this time. However, please share the photos with us when you have them.

 

As to the credibility of the materials in Armenian sites... Do you have any example of non-credible and non-challanged material or allegation of any degree of importance in this site?

 

[ July 10, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[bellthecat]

The explosions did NOT stop in May. I was there in the middle of June, and they were still going on - and I suspect they will continue for as long as they can get away with it (which will be forever to judge from Armenian official reactions to date).

 

Sorry, What materials on what sites? When I was talking about inaccuracies all I was talking about was the cartoon posted by mosjan - Ani was not "built" in 962 or "ruined" by the Selcuks.

 

Steve

[MJ]

Sorry, I had misunderstood your comment about AOL Message Board, therefore, it had looked too generalizing to me.

 

I know that Seldjuks had nothing to do with the ruining of Ani.

 

What is the "official" date of Ani's construction, btw?

[bellthecat]

I got the photos back today - five pictures, including one of the aftermath of an explosion in the quarry. But homestead, where I will post the pictures, seems to be down at the moment, so I will try to post them on Tuesday.

 

Steve