Proud EXPAT Posted February 21, 2004 Report Share Posted February 21, 2004 Guys is it possible for us to change the name of this section to Artsakh rather than Karabagh? Karabagh is a Turkish name. Artsakh is the Armenian one. What do you guys think? I can't stand when I'm talking about this land and Armenians call it Karabagh rather than Artsakh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garo Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Guys is it possible for us to change the name of this section to Artsakh rather than Karabagh? Karabagh is a Turkish name. Artsakh is the Armenian one. What do you guys think? I can't stand when I'm talking about this land and Armenians call it Karabagh rather than Artsakh. I am amazed that this never has been proposed before, and it took so long before someone realise that there is something that does not make sense with the name. <_< Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 It has been brought up several times before. I guess it was the right time (all other updates/upgrades etc done) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thanks guys for updating the name. I think we should all make an effort to stop using the name Karabagh and alert others to as well. Unfortunatley, there are many, many villages in the Republic of Armenia that have Turkish names as well, but recently the Government has been making an effort to change the names back to their original Armenian ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 I can't imagine anyone calling themselves not Karabaghtsi but Artsakhtsi. Besides, toponym-wise, isn't Karabagh actually historically Artsakh AND Utik? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Thanks guys for updating the name. I think we should all make an effort to stop using the name Karabagh and alert others to as well. Unfortunatley, there are many, many villages in the Republic of Armenia that have Turkish names as well, but recently the Government has been making an effort to change the names back to their original Armenian ones. You sound more like the voice of a typical armchair patriot, and a right little fascist git to boot. People like you whine on and on about "Armenian" place names in Turkey being changed into "Turkish" ones - yet you seem to think it is OK for you to commit or advocate such genocidal acts within Armenia. Of course - just like your opposite numbers in Turkey - the last thing that people like you would think of doing is actually consulting the inhabitants of the places whose names you wish to exterminate. That would be too much like democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Dear ExPat, first off WELCOME! You deserve congratulations for a job well done. However, as always, a good beginning is half the job, and as always half a job is not complete. We need people like you to, as the legend goes to point out that the "emperor has no clothes". You my find the following thread interesting. If you don't get the whole story you will notice that the correspondent that ended with a screen name of Artsakh had entered the forum as KARABAGH. You can see th rest. http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=7085&st=0 It is a good beginning yet there is so much to be done. The website below, the official homepage of Artsakh uses the title NKR which is hardly Armenian. They may have a reason. We all know why. But the process must begin now for the eventual day when Artsakh is recognized as an idependent country and launched on the world. Of course we know that when that happens it will no more be known as Nagorny or Karabagh but what? Is it not time we seriously consider the options. As Stormig states above that Artsakh is only a part of the greater Utik region, which in my understanding is as well a part of Syunik, i.e southeastern Armenia. It has been known by many toponyms at different times including yet not only Khmamsayi Melikutyun (Arabic influence as khamsa means five in Arabic). What other names? Let's admit, Karabgh is unacceptable but Artsakh may not be a good choice either as many world languages, specially those that count most have neither the letter and sound for TS or KH. It reminds me of the time when a newsman after struggling with Ed's surname and sweating all over his microphone finally came up with "duzhruzhian". Did you recognize which Ed it is? Why would an Armenian suffer with a surname like Djeredjian? It is neither Armenian nor it has any esthetic or linguistic advantage. NKR; http://www.nkr.am/eng/ Above you also mention that many nonArmenian sounding localities are being renamed. GOOD!! It reminds of the time when shortly after the big Earthquake I wrote a letter to the editor suggesting that once these cities are rebuilt thay should be renamed. Remember that this was before the collapse of the SU and before the statue of Lenin was ceremoniously taken down. Some day I may reproduce what I exactly said in the letter but I do remember saying: "What are we going rename them? Gorbachevashen or Perestroikavan? Was I prophesying? Did the authorities hear me and renamed them Gumri and Vanadzor among others? Have we learned something or are we once again going act with emotion mob mentality and perhaps rename these localities, say after the highest bidder, i.e that who donates the most? Look at the next site. Why is that cathedral in Shushi named.... Who is it named after? I could not find why, but..... Ghazanche....tots? I don't even know how to spell it. Is that an Armenian name? Who are the Ghazanches? Don't tell me it was named after the one time Patriarch of Polis Kazanjian!! Of course not!! Yet, again. What kind of a surname is Kazanji-(ian) specially on a Patriarch? http://www.roguetalent.com/karabagh4.html Dear ExPat, you take it over as you must have a knack of affecting things Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 (edited) You sound more like the voice of a typical armchair patriot, and a right little fascist git to boot. People like you whine on and on about "Armenian" place names in Turkey being changed into "Turkish" ones - yet you seem to think it is OK for you to commit or advocate such genocidal acts within Armenia. Of course - just like your opposite numbers in Turkey - the last thing that peopl Dear Bell, not fair! You are virtually comparing apples with oranges. When the Turks do it it is not to recover their 4000 year old Turkic toponyms, obviously, but to fascetiously wipe out any preTurkish culture, specially Armenian ones as they may have left some Greek, Arabic, Persian and Roman names intact since the Romans and others unlike us have no claims and neither do the Greeks seem to. In our case it would simply be rediscovering their original names before they were superseded by you-name-it. Edited February 22, 2004 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Dear Bell, not fair! You are virtually comparing apples with oranges. When the Turks do it it is not to recover their 4000 year old Turkic toponyms, obviously, but to fascetiously wipe out any preTurkish culture, specially Armenian ones as they may have left some Greek, Arabic, Persian and Roman names intact since the Romans and others unlike us have no claims and neither do the Greeks seem to. In our case it would simply be rediscovering their original names before they were superseded by you-name-it. If I am, then I am comparing mouldy, dried-up old oranges with wizened, acidic little crab-apples. Both are inedible to anyone with any taste. Similarly, the forced renaming of place-names, should be totally unacceptable to anyone. It is very disapointing to know that you do not understand how offensive it is to be advocating such a practive. Anyone with such a "year-zero" mentality towards history is a political dinosaur - I hope such people are not in anyway involved in advocating the democratic rights of the population of NKR within the larger world, they will succeed in doing nothing but alienating everyone from their cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Interesting thing is that I know many people who were born in 'Karabagh' but refuse to use that name. They admit that the land they are from is Armenian land, or more precisely Artsakh. If the people of Artsakh say this what place do we have in this debate? I leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 An extensive site about Artsakh. Be sure to click on other info. I'll start with Toponyms. Enjoy! http://www.karabagh.am/eng/Glossari/toponimika/32topo1A.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 As long as we are talking about Artsakh let us also talk about Nakhjavan or Nakhchavan. Yes I did not spell as NakhIJEvan. There sre several towns and villages by the name even all the way out in Crimea the original of which was detroyed and a Nor Nakhijevan founded. There was also one in the Kars region. The more I read I read about the more I suspect that the original name was Nakhchavan and not Nakh-ijevan. In fact one of my sources does assert historical evidence shows that the town esisted during the 6th c BC and that until the 10th century it was known as Nakhchavan. The latter form was a deliberate corruption to lend credibility to the descent of Noah(which never happened). It seems like the toponym is composed of "nakhch" and "avan". We know what the latter is but who or what was "nakhch/nakhj"? I wonder if it meant something or other in Urartuan. Please those of us who may fear that this will lend credibility to our detractors' insistence that the name is Naxjavan or Naxjvan, fear not sonce as mentioned above Nakhchavan/Nakhijevan has been in existence a good 2000 years before we ever heard of the Turk or the Azeri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johannes Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 Ghazanche....tots? I don't even know how to spell it. Is that an Armenian name? Who are the Ghazanches? Don't tell me it was named after the one time Patriarch of Polis Kazanjian!! Of course not!! Yet, again. What kind of a surname is Kazanji-(ian) specially on a Patriarch? Արցախի Խաչենագետի հովտում, որ Մարտակերտի շրջանումն է, գտնւում է Ղազանչի գիւղը: Արեւելեան Հայաստանի Ռուսական գրաւումից ետք, երբ Շուշին զարգացաւ, Ղազանչի գիւղից հայեր եկան եւ այդ եկեղեցին կառուցեցին, տալով՝ բնականաբար քրիստնէական անուն (Ս. Աստուածածին կարծեմ): Ժողովուրդը, զանազանելու համար այս եկեղեցին, միւսներից, տալիս էր կառուցողների անուամբ: Սակայն սխալմամբ, երբեմն ասում են Ս. Ղազանչեցոց եկեղեցի, ինչ որ ինքնաբերաբար. Ղազանչի գիւղի բնակիչները սրբութեան աստիճանին է բարձրացնում: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irlandahay Posted May 26, 2008 Report Share Posted May 26, 2008 You sound more like the voice of a typical armchair patriot, and a right little fascist git to boot. People like you whine on and on about "Armenian" place names in Turkey being changed into "Turkish" ones - yet you seem to think it is OK for you to commit or advocate such genocidal acts within Armenia. Of course - just like your opposite numbers in Turkey - the last thing that people like you would think of doing is actually consulting the inhabitants of the places whose names you wish to exterminate. That would be too much like democracy. Its very sad to see your reaction there Steve... I happen to be a "right-wing little fascist git to boot" and I dont consider referring to Ancient Armenian sites by their historical names. Calling it something else only furthers the Azeri claim that we are invaders and not survivors. I dont see anything facistic about wanting to preserve every aspect of our culture instead of bending over to our invaders. btw. Abris Proud Expat, this has been an issue with me for a while and I even managed to get my mother to change the name of one of her fund-raisers from karabkh to Artsakh. keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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