Joachim Murat

[espanol]

He leido algunas veces que Murat nacio en el pueblo KRKJAN en Karabagh. Es verdad o no ????

[Sip]

He leido algunas veces que Murat nacio en el pueblo KRKJAN en Karabagh. Es verdad o no ????

According to google translation tools: "I have leido some times that Murat nacio in town KRKJAN in Karabagh. It is truth or no?"

[Sebastia]

español, yo pienso, esto no es verdad, porque pienso que él nacía en Francia. En La Bastide-Fortunière. ¿Dónde oyó usted esto?

[Sasun]

español, yo pienso, esto no es verdad, porque pienso que él nacía en Francia. En La Bastide-Fortunière. ¿Dónde oyó usted esto?

I heard that he has Artsaxi origins. Maybe he was born in France but his parents were from Artsax. Or maybe he was born in Artsax but grew up in France.

[Sebastia]

I heard that he has Artsaxi origins. Maybe he was born in France but his parents were from Artsax. Or maybe he was born in Artsax but grew up in France.

 

Hmm... Maybe, I don't know. Did he have Armenian descent or was it just that his parents lived in Artsax?

[Sasun]

Hmm... you know English but typed Spanish??? that's strange, I wonder why

 

The guy looks very much Armenian.

[Sebastia]

Hmm... you know English but typed Spanish??? that's strange, I wonder why

 

who me?

[Sasun]

who me?

Oops.. sorry. I thought it was you my mistake...

[Sebastia]

Oops.. sorry. I thought it was you  my mistake...

 

 

thats allright!!!

[Sebastia]

Español, desatienda mi poste más temprano. Joachim Murat (MURADYAN HOVAKIM HOVHANNES) (1767-1815) nació en 1767 en el pueblo KRKJAN en Karabagh (La región de Askeran de Artsakh).

 

 

MURAT (MURADYAN HOVAKIM HOVHANNES) (1767-1815) Born in 1767 in Krkjan village (Askeran region of Nagorno Karabagh). Served in the French Army. Supported Napoleon in his taking the power. In 1804 Murat received the title of a marshal of France. In 1808 Murat became the Neapolitan king. Jean Murat, his grandson (1888-1968) was a cinema actor.

[Accelerated]

MURAT (MURADYAN HOVAKIM HOVHANNES) (1767-1815) Born in 1767 in Krkjan village (Askeran region of Nagorno Karabagh). Served in the French Army. Supported Napoleon in his taking the power. In 1804 Murat received the title of a marshal of France. In 1808 Murat became the Neapolitan king. Jean Murat, his grandson (1888-1968) was a cinema actor.

 

WHOA! Where did u get this from????

[MartyRoss]

Murat, Joachim

born March 25, 1767, La Bastide-Fortunière, France

died October 13, 1815, Pizzo, Calabria

 

 

Italian Gioacchino Murat French cavalry leader who was one of Napoleon's most celebrated marshals and who, as king of Naples (1808–15), lent stimulus to Italian nationalism.

 

 

http://www.britannica.com/eb/article?eu=55688

[Sebastia]

Murat, Joachim

born March 25, 1767, La Bastide-Fortunière, France

died October 13, 1815, Pizzo, Calabria

 

 

Italian Gioacchino Murat French cavalry leader who was one of Napoleon's most celebrated marshals and who, as king of Naples (1808–15), lent stimulus to Italian nationalism.

 

oh ya!! <_< like the french would admit that one of their best generals was Armenian!!! All this is complete crap.

 

WHOA! Where did u get this from????

Accel, I got it from http://www.karabagh.am/eng/Glossari/31glossa13N.htm

 

and you guys can trust me, the guy was Armenian.

[Stormig]

I thought it was the bodyguard who was Armenian. Oh well...

[Arpa]

I thought it was the bodyguard who was Armenian. Oh well...

The bodyguard you're looking for is this. From the above site.

 

 

MADATOV VALERIAN GRIGORI (MADATYAN ROSTOM) (1782-1829) Born in 1782 in Chanakhchi (Avetaranots) village of Askeran region of Nagorno Karabagh. An aide-de-camp-general. Madatov began his military career as a second lieutenant of household troops of Preobrozhenski Regiment. In 1810 Madatov was shifted to

the cavalry unit of Alexandriysk Regiment as a captain, later - as a major. In 1812 Madatov received the rank of a colonel. He participated in two Russian-Turkish Wars. Madatov's career was marked with heroism, distinction and numerous medals. He had his contribution to the victories over the French, Saxon, Austrian and Polish armies.

[Arpa]

I think you are actually looking for this. Roustam Raza Khachaturian Hovnani. Born in Tiflis 1780, died in Durdan, France 1845. Was captured and sold into slavery by the Tatars, ending up in Egypt and mamlukized. He was in the service of Sheikh Bakr who gifted him to Napoleon as a bodyguard which he served for 16 years and participated in many of the latter's exploits. IN 1814 when Napoleon was exiled to Elba he slipped out and ended in Persia from where he travelled back to his native city of Tiflis. He took part in many of the exploits of the Russians such as the Russo-Persian war of 1826. He once again emerged in France and took part in the funeral procession of Napoleon's remains, and where he stayed for the rest of his life and wrote his memoirs; " Memoirs of the Mamluk Roustam of Napoleon I", a work that many have used in their search for the eperor's biography.

 

Go all the way down to the bibliography;

 

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/or..._mameluks1.html

 

[2] Napoleon's famous bodyguard Roustan was Armenian from Tbilisi, and his real name was Rostom Raza. In his memoirs Rustam wrote that he was born in Tiflis (an old name of Tbilisi) and his father Rustam Unan was a merchant. Being born in Tbilisi Roustan was often considered as Georgian.

[espanol]

español, yo pienso, esto no es verdad, porque pienso que él nacía en Francia. En La Bastide-Fortunière. ¿Dónde oyó usted esto?

Hay una sola problema que primero documento que demuestra presentacion de Murat en este ciudad es de 1782!!!!! entonces el ya tenia mas de 15 anos. Y donde estaba antes?????

Yo soy de Etchmiadzin, pero mis antepasados vivian en Sason y en Karabagh.

Que mezcla eh!!!!

[espanol]

E.Ferri as one of the first has described this process: «In a history of criminality two phenomena are observed: on the one hand, the civilization, as Tard has noticed it, destroys one kinds of criminality, it created, and creates on their place new; on the other hand, the criminality undergoes the double morphological evolution making it with a characteristic parameter of each historical period, for each social group … In Italy we see, how a robbery for the last few years has passed from the form of theft with application of the weapon and collection of the repayment, to the form of a constant payment collection - a way practicing by Tiburtcy and Varsalon, receiving the certain sum of money from the large land owners for their protection against fine thieves».

In the Neapolitan kingdom of 18 century the Camorra gangs has got a special social importance (they have received this name from the name of the clothes used as a uniform, camorra - a short jacket). When an army of revolutionary France has expelled representatives of Bourbon dynasty from a royal throne and the native of Armenia Napoleonic Marshal Joachim Mjurat became the Neapolitan king, former king Ferdinand IV ran to Sicily. There he has collected the considerable army appreciably consisted from the Camorrists. Three outstanding Camorrists - Pronio, De Chesare and Rodio became its generals. This historical event rendered serious influence on criminal transformation of the Sicilian mafia which has originally arisen on island as the revolutionary organization having the beautiful name «Sicilian supper» (some authors consider the term a mafia as an abbreviation consisting of initial letters of the following phrase: «Morte Alla Francia Italia Anela”, that in translation means «the Motto of Italy - death to all French/

http://www.crime-research.org/eng/library/Aht_tem3E.htm

[Roustam]

The bodyguard you're looking for is this. From the above site.

MADATOV VALERIAN GRIGORI (MADATYAN ROSTOM) (1782-1829) Born in 1782 in Chanakhchi (Avetaranots) village of Askeran region of Nagorno Karabagh. An aide-de-camp-general. Madatov began his military career as a second lieutenant of household troops of Preobrozhenski Regiment. In 1810 Madatov was shifted to

the cavalry unit of Alexandriysk Regiment as a captain, later - as a major. In 1812 Madatov received the rank of a colonel. He participated in two Russian-Turkish Wars. Madatov's career was marked with heroism, distinction and numerous medals. He had his contribution to the victories over the French, Saxon, Austrian and Polish armies.

[Roustam]

Dear Arpa,

your Roustam's biography is correct until 1814, but wrong after.

After the fall of Napoleon's empire, Roustam never went back to Persia nor Tbilissi.

He stayed from 1814 to 1830 in Paris (I have the addresses)(except for a short 2 weeks travel to London in 1824). His wife's parents lived in a village near Dourdan (40 miles south of Paris) and moved to this town in 1827. Then from 1830 Roustam's wife insisted on him to stay beside her parent's home. The couple moved to Dourdan and rent a flat there (the house still exists). They stayed there until Roustam's death in 1845.

His grave remains in the Dourdan cemetery (It has been restored in 2001).

 

Roustam left Armenia when he was aged 13. His father Roustam Honan was Armenian from the town of Aperkan (who knows where it is, or what is the actual name of this town ?) , his mother Bouchid-Vari was Georgian. He was brought up from age of 2 to 13 in Armenia, so he can be considered as from Armenian origin, although he got born in Tbilissi.

His family was scattered during the Persian-Armenian War. He was taken and sold 7 times as a slave. Finally he arrived to Egypt and then met Bonaparte in 1799.

During the Empire, Napoleon sent messengers to try to find his mother or sister in Armenia, but in vain (his mother had also been taken and sold as a slave).

 

After the fall of french empire, Roustam was overlooked by the king's police, as suspected (like many others) to be a bonapartist supporter. Supposing he had any projects to go to Persia or Armenia, he would had to ask a visa permit to go there (and he would have get difficulties to get it). We should have documents about that in the french archives, and we don't have.

For his 2 weeks trip to England in 1824, we have a lot of documents and police reports.

Moreover, Roustam has written his memories by 1840 (published in 1911). In the text he says how disappointed he was during the empire for not having got any news from his mother and sister. Surely he would have told about a trip to Georgy or Armenia to find his family, and he does not mention anything about that.

In fact Roustam was a peaceful man, not a fighter nor a politician, and after 1814 he only wanted to retire and relax quietly, after 15 years on battlefields with Napoleon...

My association is publishing an illustrated album (in french) about Roustam's life.

From december 2005, see on www.histoiredourdan.org (website presently on process).

Best regards.

 

B. Durand,

Pdt of History Society of Dourdan (France)

 

 

PS : About Murat : of course he got born in France (south-west) ! There is no history discussion about that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think you are actually looking for this. Roustam Raza Khachaturian Hovnani. Born in Tiflis 1780, died in Durdan, France 1845. Was captured and sold into slavery by the Tatars, ending up in Egypt and mamlukized. He was in the service of Sheikh Bakr who gifted him to Napoleon as a bodyguard which he served for 16 years and participated in many of the latter's exploits. IN 1814 when Napoleon was exiled to Elba he slipped out and ended in Persia from where he travelled back to his native city of Tiflis. He took part in many of the exploits of the Russians such as the Russo-Persian war of 1826. He once again emerged in France and took part in the funeral procession of Napoleon's remains, and where he stayed for the rest of his life and wrote his memoirs; " Memoirs of the Mamluk Roustam of Napoleon I", a work that many have used in their search for the eperor's biography.

 

Go all the way down to the bibliography;

 

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/or..._mameluks1.html

 

[2] Napoleon's famous bodyguard Roustan was Armenian from Tbilisi, and his real name was Rostom Raza. In his memoirs Rustam wrote that he was born in Tiflis (an old name of Tbilisi) and his father Rustam Unan was a merchant. Being born in Tbilisi Roustan was often considered as Georgian.