Stormig Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 As eligible as I might not be for an opinion on this topic, I think that discussing whether it is worth the life of the kid or not if it is going to be born unwell is pointless, because you are allowed abortions even if it is going to be born blissful and happy. I think this is more something that the "pro-life" should ponder. On the other hand, I would have difficulties deciding if the baby were to have a perfect mind but not body. If it were perfect body but not mind, I'd abort and give it another try. The former is not that easy to decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted January 19, 2004 Report Share Posted January 19, 2004 imagine urself getting hit by a truck, and only thing that is alive is half of your brain,,, I would get Anon to inject Chlorine into my balls just to get amused by its effects (and hopefully die) - at least I'd die laughing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Hyebruin jan, thx jigyar.. I have been through very similar dicusions for whole semester.. lol.. the only argument not refuted was the potential for enjoyable experiances in the future being why we are killing when we abort... can anyone argue against that?? I would love to hear it.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 just to clear something,, im not going towards abortian is bad blah blah blah.. but the argument fits here because if by aborting you are killing, then abortion is murder.. NO? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Dan, I feel exactly like you regarding this topic. I know that I if I was born with a birth defect and had the ablility to understand what life is and what this world means, I would've chosen to wish that I had never been born in the first place. I'm glad someone agrees with me. lol.. i lost track of this thread cos I had to go to bed early last night, and I'm not gonna read others' long replies so heh.. I pretty much said what I thought about this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 (edited) if by aborting you are killing, then abortion is murder.. NO? lol yes, that would be correct, because you are saying the same thing (i.e., both sides of the equation are the same thing). but how you arrived at "aborting is killing", I am not sure.. murder is when you kill a conscious human being. the embryo might not qualify under those laws. Edited January 20, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I was born as the first child of a woman at middle age. Probably due to her age, I am blind in one eye (although on the surface you can not tell except that the eye drifts), have excessive allergies and food sensitivities and have had to have had surgeries to correct other birth defects (such as having a vestigial tail removed). No human has the right to play God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 It's not about playing God. Fact is, saying that someone has no right to do something because X (who has not been proven to exist) is the one who should decide these things, qualifies as null and void. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Kill america-hye, a total drain on our economy and not worthy to live, because the family has to worry, spent money, government has to take care of....etc... BS!!! thats not an arguement..... I am sure accelerated you wouldnt want ur parents to kill you... u couldant really tell though till ur in that situation.. .. Dan, i will get back to u as soon as i get back home.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 (edited) gevo, i think we are talking about more complicated birth defects...... an example of that would be the birth defects of the children of those who served in vietnam, etc. and who were exposed to chemical material... i know they should've known that there's a high risk for birth defects in that situation, but if it happened, what would you do? do you sit around and stubbornly still argue that all those arguments are BS? i am talking about VERY extreme physical deformities, not the "blind in one eye" type (no offense, A-H, not trying to minimise the important of what you went through). edit: just to add the following: it hurts most when it hits close. people's views and their reaction to this thread might vary if they are faced with that situation in real life. Edited January 20, 2004 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I am sure accelerated you wouldnt want ur parents to kill you... u couldant really tell though till ur in that situation.. .. My parents wouldnt have the heart to kill me - their only child, no matter how badly mangled I would be: thats what friends are for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I am sure accelerated you wouldnt want ur parents to kill you... u couldant really tell though till ur in that situation.. .. we are talking about aborting the "child" in the womb, not killing a grown up person. so i'm not sure how that's relevant, gevo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Dan, its relevent as to his feelings... but you are very right when u say edit: just to add the following: it hurts most when it hits close. people's views and their reaction to this thread might vary if they are faced with that situation in real life. ok, well here is a story,, true ofcourse,, My cousin, like 35 years was pregnant, and was due at like any day... an the doctors found a bump, or lump or something defective with the backside of the brain tha side that controls all you bodily activities which you dont have to think about,, the uncouncious mind,,, they told them the baby was defective, and was gona be borna vegitable... they were givin a choice, abort now (like next 24 hours) and you will be fine, or if u have the baby, then you have to do everything you can to help it survive.... the baby was born, and died less than 48 hours later.... so the point is, if the baby is"extreme" enough,, as u were reffering to Dan, then it will die on its own, the doctors dont have to chopp it up in pieces, not at 9 months anyways.... so Dan,,, u bring up a good point, but if it were that extreme, the outcome would be death most likely anyways right, so why not take the chance of your baby, (which really isnt at all giving it a chance, but for lack of better term) surviving.... Cause i have also heard of many people with birth defects, some very much mor serious than american-hye,, and they are better now and they would trade life they lived for nothing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 20, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 Gevo, I'm sorry to hear that about your cousin. Unfortunately there are some babies who are born and suffer from day one. I read about this baby in whom the doctors had inserted a tube in the brain. The tube was necessary to drain the blood from his brain. The doctors said that he was blind and would never see and they couldn't yet predict what other kind of disabilities the baby would have. Just because of the tube the baby was in a very high risk of getting a bacterial infection (and this happens a lot), suffer blood loss, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 20, 2004 Report Share Posted January 20, 2004 I don't know if I suffer from birth defects, but I certainly suffer from birth effects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 so the point is, if the baby is"extreme" enough,, as u were reffering to Dan, then it will die on its own, the doctors dont have to chopp it up in pieces, not at 9 months anyways.... so Dan,,, u bring up a good point, but if it were that extreme, the outcome would be death most likely anyways right, so why not take the chance of your baby, (which really isnt at all giving it a chance, but for lack of better term) surviving.... no, gevo.., not necessarily.. some people don't die and have to live with those defects for the rest of their lives. Cause i have also heard of many people with birth defects, some very much mor serious than american-hye,, and they are better now and they would trade life they lived for nothing.. i don't know if fortunately or unfortunately, but that's the hollywood heroic story of the person who overcame all hurdles, etc. well guess what, life isn't that easy.. this coming from someone who has ADHD (not a birth defect, but a diagnosed condition nevertheless), and I must say, it's not all that easy. let alone when someone is deaf or blind, or both. or even worse... there are millions of permutations / variations ... so to say that those who are born with birth defects love life and wouldn't trade it for anything, is a huge myth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 I don't know if I suffer from birth defects, but I certainly suffer from birth effects. Perhaps we could arrange for your retroactive abortion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Perhaps we could arrange for your retroactive abortion... ouch!!!! he's only a mouse! not a rat! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Yeah Bruin...and what does he know about birth effects anyway...he is really not even a mouse...he is only a man... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Perhaps we could arrange for your retroactive abortion... If there is one thing on the forums you can boast of is that you have a black belt in banging your pointy forehead on the keyboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 Last night I was watching something about "life before birth" - featuring among other things this Greek doctor (http://www.ob-ultrasound.net/nicolaides.html). I found all that stuff with the poking of the needle through the tummy and the uterus and the placenta quite yucky, but I watched it regardless. (Actually laughed at this one Chinese-looking assistant joking with one of the patients when he saw the tattoo just above her navel - a floral design. He said some patients had a dolphin on their tummy which later turned into a whale as it happened to swell up.) Anyway... It just made me realize the sorts of dilemma a couple can face when they find out their child is going to be unwell - what this does to them, the rest of the family, if they have other kids already, etc. Some carry on regardless and don't terminate. Just hearing all these stories and fears, I think it is pretty pointless to accuse them of being cruel or something, as one is not in their place, in their shoes under their circumstances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted January 23, 2004 Report Share Posted January 23, 2004 (Actually laughed at this one Chinese-looking assistant joking with one of the patients when he saw the tattoo just above her navel - a floral design. He said some patients had a dolphin on their tummy which later turned into a whale as it happened to swell up.) Reminds me of a recent news story. About a man who had "I love women" tattoed on his arm. After an operation on that part of his arm, it ended up reading "I love men"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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