ARF historical role

[Guest]

Dear MJ,

My intention here is not to condemn the past.

I'm a Ramgavar and Ramgavars did many mistakes in the past and probably will do in the future. But what annoys me deeply is Tashnaks' PRESENT intransigent and un-cooperative stand in every field with ANY non-Tashnag. They don't seem to evolve and their brain-wash "education" is still going on. That's why they should not meddle in Armenia's internal problems. With their present unchanged mentality they might harm again.

For me the TRUE Tashnaks were those who faught and died on the battlefield.

My grand father was one of them.

Regards.

[Guest]

Dear Bartev, I have no particular sympathy for ARF. I just have one comment - If it is fair to ban ARF, it is also fair to ban Armenian Communist Party, and HHSh - Armenian All National Movement. They all are equally guilty, in my view.

[Guest]

I just thought of this: How come no ARF member ever participates in these discussions? Why don't we have them here? Is it because they don't know about this forum, is it becuase they think they will be attacked, or is it because they have their own "forum?"

[Guest]

BArev dzez

Nax yev arach k@tsankanayi Vorjyunel Hye-fourm'i nor masnakitsnerin .

MJ - Bartev - Boghos yev myusnerin - Barov ek yekel .

 

Naxorok asem vor chem patkanum yev voch mi kusaktsutyan yev nuynisk chem el hamakrum yev voch mekin,im kusaktsutyuns im azgn e Hayots , tsnvel yev metsatsel em Naxkin CCCP petutyunum ur kusaktsutyun@ amen inchits ver er, yev kusaktsutyan qori tak inch eyin anum mardik bavakanin lav gitem .

Galov ARF kam AYF kam dashanktsutyun .

Arten 2 or e portsum em heru mnal iys temayits sakayn chem karor , chem karor qani vor tesunum em te inchpisin e yerel dashanktsutyan gortsuneyutyun@ yev inchpisin e na iysor.

mek korm dnenk te inch e arel dashanktstyn kochvats kusaktsutyuN@ #1 Hayastani Patutyan orok, inchov e n@pastel yeri-turkrin turkyaum rekavarutyun dzerk berelu mej yev um yev inchi gnov e minchev iysor goyatevum.

 

yev chmoranank vor dashanktsutyun kusaktsutyun@ kazmvats e rekavarutyunits yev andamnerits , andamner vorontsits shater@ irents kyank@ k@tan Hayreniki hamar yev te Hayutyan hamar.

Yes chem hadurjum dashank rekavarnerin yev yerbek hargank chem el unena n@ranst n@katmamb,

dashanktsakan rekavarner@ voch avel yev voch pakas shakalner en voronk patrast en amen inch tal vor gone mek angam yevs rekavaren Hayastani petutyan@, yev anum en amen inch iydter hasnelu hamar.

avar janaparh@ iydt parstkali yerazankin hasnelu antsnum e bazmativ hayeri diyakneri vrayov. dashanktsakan rekavarner uj yev yerand chen xnayum ashxarkov mek ishxelu Haykakan masanerin lini da Mamuli - TV - radio - mijotsov ,

sra var orinakn e Glandale qaraki Haykakan TV kayani skandal@ ur Mr. Jan Kosakyan@ yev ir mi kani kusaktsakan @engerner@ urraki l@pirshoren gravets yev durs hanets voch kusaktsakan 24Hr-awtv yev mi kani urish HAykakan Tv tsragirner.

hima irenk en yev irents Zurnayi tak paror Tv jamer@.

sa miyayn mek orinak e .

isk qaraqakan volrtnerum dashankner@ bavakanin mets vnas en hastrel Hayastanin yev n@ra bargavajman@, LTP orok ( levon ter petrosyani ) amen dzevov varqabeum eyin HAyastanin yev n@ra rekavarnerin / portsum kangnetsnel tsankatsats ognutyun ( $ ) vor@ Hayastanin er hatkatsvats tarber yerkrneri kormits, varqabekelov yev aselov vor hayatsanum demorkatya chka yev mafyan e rekavbarum yerir@ Hayots. Axer pos@ poror@ inkn e pos@ @enknum yev inch statsvets verchum ?,

1988 dektemberi yerkrasharjits heto der dashanktsutyun@ konkret dzevov chi karoratsel asel te inch patahets iyn milyonavor $$$ vor@ havakvel er Hayatsan urrarkvelu hamar mi kani teletoneri @entaskum.

dashanktsutyn@ der patasxan chi tvel 1970 tvakanerin beyrutum katarats ir vojragortsutyuneri hamar.

dashanktsutyun@ der patasxan chi tvel OCt27 ir katarats deri masin yev@s,

der patasxan chen tvel te inchu hamar Haraf-amerikyan yerkrnerum ur jamankain haka-komunistakn sharjum er matnum eyin urish kusatsutyuneri patkanor HAYERIN, vorstikanerin aselov te n@rank Komunist en , kani kanisneri glux@ keran iyspes.

der patasxan e talu te inchu > hamagortsaksum e CIA - KGB - MUjahed - IZRAYEL yev turkyai het amen dzev portselov tapalen nerka Hayastani rekavarneri vorpist lini Tagavori Atorin,

shat shateris haytni e te inch kardabalet sarketsin Karabaghum, portsum eyin iys norasterts petutyun@ dzerk berel, kani kanisi gluxnern el ester keran irents kusaktsakan garaparaxosutyamb yev amen amis mi kani x@rjuk $4 talov kusaktsakaneri @entaniknerin.

Kazmetsin DRO karuyts@ heto el hrajarvetsin ,

 

gitek inch karor enk orerov 1000 u mi meradrank tal dashnaktsutyan rekavarneri hastseyin,

 

Sakayn yes kaseyi mi ban, yeraxtapart em dashnaktsutyan@ menak yev miyayn mek banov

da dashaktsutyan propogandayi hamar.

stertsvats Haykakan dprostneri yev Haykakan Akumbneri - HAykakan yekeretsineri hamar,

iyo iyo yeraxtapart em , chnayats vor sa miyayn yev miyayn irents propogandayi hamar e,

Katarel en shat mets gorts azgapahpanman gortsum . miyayn iys mek@ vor@ kartsum em poker ban che. karutsel Haykakan Dprotsner yev Haykakan yekeretsiner yev akumbner asxharkov mek.

Gone es mek@ karoratsel en anel , gone Hayeren lezu yev Hayots patmtyun grakanutyun en sovoretsrel bazmativ Hayerin trainer sharunak .

Bats en pahel Haykakan Yekeretsineri drner@ / sakayn pakel irenst kusaktsakan @nkerneri achkeri .

Zarmanali e che kan kusaktsakaner voronk Kureren pashtpanum en iys kusaktsutyun@, zarmanali e,

Voch miyayn zarmanali iyl apshetsutsich.

 

im kartsikov tsankatsats depkum mer sireli Hye-dashnaktsakaner@ petqe haskanan vor irenk Hye en arachin@ minchev dashnak linel@.

qani vor n@rantsits shat shater@ dashnaktsutyun@ dasum en Hayutyunits yev HAyastanits ver.

yev iyspes dashnaktsutyu yevkam dashanktsakan rekavarner@ darstel en mi kertot mashvats tashkinak , mi petutyun ir kitn e srpum dranov mekn el ir yetev@ . isk mejter@ Hay azgn e tujvum yev yerkparaktvum .

de bavakan e mart ek te dashnak.

 

 

[This message has been edited by MosJan (edited September 01, 2000).]

[Guest]

I am an ARF Member and I posted something earlier which you can check out and actually read before making such strong comments.

[Guest]

They are busy with their propaganda and how to take-over Armenia.

But I have another question: do we need two "gatoghigossner"?

The tashnaks "saved"(!) the Armenian church from Echmiadzin's communist regime.

Now that our chuch is "saved" do we need another Catholocos? Or is he there as a...spare part? Or is it because Echmiadzin is not another tasnnak puppet?

[Guest]

Bartev, I totally agree with you...

[Guest]

Dear Bartev,

 

I think you are absolutely right. Uniting the church should be a priority. The only serious obstacle on the way is the ARF>

 

There are signs that the ARF is losing its grip in the diaspora. Just look at the recent elections in Lebanon. A party bigwig couldn´t get elected !

 

This may mean that they will want to stick to what they have, Antelias, as long as possible. I think they are quite disappointed with their presence in Armenia and Karabagh. Now that they see that even in their traditional strongholds things are not going well, they may retort to their old tactics. I hope not.

[Guest]

iyster LA'um ka mi shat geretsik yev modern Tseranots ( Ararat Home )

ur mer Hye taretsner karor en irenst kyanki verjin tainer@ antskatsnel zbarvel amenorya tarber tesaki mijoitsaruneri, Ararat home'i taratskum e gtvum Dokmekjyan Dahlij@ yev nayev mi geretsik Yekeretsy , vor karutsman jamanak mer metsapativ Kirg Grigoryan@ asel e " iys yekeretsin nvirum em Hye Jorovrtin yev voch echmiyatsnakan yev kam Kilikyo temin , iys yekeretsin tor lini n@rants 2i hamagortselu yev myanalu mek patjar," yev iyspes iys geretsik Ykeretsin Tapur e mnatsel , minchev iysor der chi otsvats kani vor echiyatsnakan tem@ portsum e iren vertsnel yev kilikyo tem@ portsum e ir dzerki tak vertsnel iyn , bavakanin txur e che . yes kaseyi inchpisy korust manavand vor mer tseruniner@ stipvats en 15Mi amen shabat kiraki gnal vorpesi motik Haykakan Yekeretsy hasnen , minchder Haykakan yekeretsy ka henst Ararart Tseranotsi bakum.

ahha yev mek urish orinak Hye Yekeretsu vra dashnaktsakan jnshman masin ,

inchu bajanel / yerkparaktel / yev mimyanst n@kadmamb atelutyun arajatsnel ? artsyok sa e garapar@ dashnaktsutyan - vori n@shanakutyun@ n@shanakum e hamagortsel - dashnaktsel ?

[Guest]

I guess ARF still uses it's intimidation politics. It's a pretty interesting article.

 

Why would parliamentary elections in Lebanon interest us, here in the US or

any other Armenian communities in the world? Because Armenians are involved,

because they herald the beginning of a new political era and because those

elections have implications to Armenian community life as a whole.

Since the Cold War years, parliamentary elections in Lebanon were nothing but

a sham. Today democratic processes in that small country, where Armenians

play a political role, still has a long way from becoming exemplary. Yet a

new dynamics is in play to change the political landscape.

During the Cold War years, the ARF (Dashnag) party had established a full

hegemony in the Armenian community through the help of the Lebanese police

and foreign ties which influenced the political life in that country.

Intimidation, beatings and assassinations were the hallmarks of that party's

policies. That hunger for power had all but silenced any opposition to the

decisions and whims of the ARF leadership.

The same tactics were used to take over the Cilician See in Antelias, to be

used as the world headquarters for the dissident church.

In recent decades, the civil war in Lebanon and the shrinking of the Armenian

community there gradually brought new changes to the political scene. The

ARF, intoxicated by its fanaticism, failed to notice the changing tides and

continued to implement the same outdated tactics and follow the same path

which led the party to a complete failing.

Out of the seven seats allocated to the Armenians in the parliament, ARF

managed to win only one, that of Sebouh Hovnanian, which is still being

contested by the opposing candidate, Raffy Madoyan.

The Protestant seat, which traditionally was assigned to an Armenian

candidates, was won by a non-Armenian, because Armenian political parties

failed to come to an understanding, mostly again because of ARF intolerance.

Sometimes, in the past, to save face, the ARF managed to enlist recruits from

the Hunchak party to do its bidding. This time around, that task was assigned

to one Mihran Seferian, who failed miserably and the incumbant Dr. Yeghia

Djerejian was re-elected to represent the Hunchak party. The ARF was never

able to buy converts from the ADL ranks and that is why that party was never

able to brace the Cold War era intimidation and win a parliamentary seat.

During these elections, the ADL chairman, Hagop Kassarjian, running on the

Rafik Hariri list, won an impressive victory, garnering the highest number of

votes among Armenian candidates in his district.

Kassarjian, who was instrumental ' along with Haigashen Ouzounian ' in

uniting the party after its recent internal crisis, was able to rally the

entire membership around his candidacy. A young and prominent business

leader, the charismatic new parliamentarian has already gotten his feet wet

in the political arena.

This election changed entirely the political complexion of the Armenian

political leadership in Lebanon, where ADL has a crucial role to play. More

transparent democracy is in the cards. The Druze community leader Walid

Jumblat has warned already that the Cold War is over and that the Dashnag

party has to revise its way of thinking and operating. Should that advice be

heeded by the party concerned ,we may witness more democratic representation

in the political spectrum. That welcome change may also be reflected in the

Antelias power structure where Cold War relics still continue clinging to

their seats. Should that also happen we may see the light at the end of the

tunnel, where a divided Armenian Church was confined for so many years.

Herein is the relevance of the recent elections in Lebanon to issues that

concern all Armenians around the world.

With the demise of the Cold War, the fresh air of democracy has been bringing

changes to many countries. Fortunately that fresh air has been also effective

in Lebanon, where Armenians began to enjoy its dividends.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by MJ:
I just thought of this: How come no ARF member ever participates in these discussions? Why don't we have them here? Is it because they don't know about this forum, is it becuase they think they will be attacked, or is it because they have their own "forum?"

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MY ANSWER to all of you is i think you all forgot who decided to punish all the organizers or the genoicde and who sent its fedayis to fight in the wars of Armenian until today, you forgot personal sacrafices likes lisbon 5, 5 young armenians none older then 21 gave their life to help get the armenian genocide recognized, pleae reply.