ARF historical role

[Guest]

And now, something really controversial: how do you evaluate ARF´s role in Armenian history ?

 

Please either way refrain from using impolite language.

[Guest]

Boghos, I think this issue is indeed very controversial. Briefly, ARF may be both praised for its role in the establishment of the 1918-1921 Republic of Armenia, as well as blamed for its distraction. Furthermore, one question that I would like to ask to ARF is - Where is the money taken from the Treasury of the Republic of Armenia, when leaving Armenia on the eve of Bolshevik invasion?

 

I cannot be more detailed now. Will probably pick-up at a later time.

[Guest]

Dear MJ,

 

I have thought about many questions that I wanted to ask them, tough questions. Just added another one.

[Guest]

Without any doubts ARF served as a distractive force in the last 100 years of Armenian history. The part of a blame of Armenian Genocide lies on the shoulders of ARF. They supported Young Turks when they came to power. It was the best indication of their political immaturity and naiveness. Today’s ARF leaders never mention the mistakes of their party, they only remember a few flashes of bravery. The whole ideology and the actions of the party throughout years have not been based on reality. Instead of trying to reconcile our differences with our neighbors, we were constantly being used by great powers that are too far from our country. ARF was used by Antante powers during the World War 1. They should have realized the power of Turkish Nationalist movement, and should have sent their delegates to Sebastia to sign peace with Kemal, instead of to Sevres. The Sevres treaty gave us lands on paper, yet the treaty with Kemal would have saved Kars and Ani. Another example of ARF’s inability to realistically assess the situation was in 1913, when Ottoman government asked for Armenian support, the ARF congress in Erzerum, took the Russian side, and therefore Armenians became the enemies of the empire. The only person I admire from ARF, is Aram Manukian, whose foresightedness is a direct result of creation of Armenian Republic in 1918. He was the organizer of defense forces of Van, and he signed the Treaty of Batum, which saved Yerevan, and prevented Turkish forces from further advancement. Besides Manukian, everybody, including Ohanjanian, Kajaznuni or Vratsian were concerned not with well being of common people, but with strengthening of their party. In Paris peace conference in 1919 or 1920, I don’t remember the year, they almost had a conflict with Boghos Nubar *****, luckily they solved their differences and saved us from embarrassment. ARF is outdated, and the era of Revolutionary parties is over. Revolutionary parties are Contras which exist only in Latin America. In it’s existence ARF is a Nazi (National socialist) party. Just like in all normal countries, I think ARF should be banned, since it’s ideology is a direct threat to our statehood.

[Guest]

Dear alpha,

 

I think you raise a lot of interesting issues.

 

ARF is indeed a National Socialist party, even though they have been admitted to the International Socialist. I think discussing their participation on the German side during WWII is not worth of much discussion but just another example of how power hungry they have always been.

 

In the 50s, 60s and 70s, they committed so many crimes that one could almost write an encyclopedia about it. Did you know that in S. America they fingered other Armenians as communists ? These people were imprisoned, tortured, and in many cases they were not even communists.

 

I completely agree that ARF should be banned in Armenia.

[Guest]

Wells, guys, I think banning them in Armenia is a little too much. After all, we would like to build a democratic statehood. But I think whatever historic mission ARF has had (as well as the other Diasporan political parties)it is over. They serve no purpose now, but a further separation of the nation. Maybe they don't even want to do it, but they are prisoners of their heritage. I think it was Kadjaznuni (I start to forget things) who in mid 20’s wrote that “Dashanktsutiunn Haiastanum ailevs anelik chuni.” I think that statement is still up-to-date. But I think that in our days, it has nothing to do even in Diaspora.

 

However, on the subject of socialism, I was surprised to find out how many of the Diasporan intellectuals lean to the left. Probably this is why ARF has decided to keep that ridiculous plank on socialism in their party platform, though they have never tried it, nor have an idea what would mean socialism in Armenia.

[Guest]

Dear MJ,

 

I agree that banning the ARF is a strong measure. But sometimes you need it, especially if a given party veiled objective is to achieve power by whatever means necessary. The ARF sees itself as the only legitimate force in Armenian politics, the standart bearer of the truth, righteousness and of course, hayootioon.

 

On the other hand if the ARF was THE major problem in Armenia today, we would be alright.

 

I also agree with you that the traditional diaspora parties are either dead (such as Ramgavar) or have no real purpose in today´s world.

[Guest]

My fear is that banning those who we don't agree with sets a precedent that everybody else that we don't agree with will also sooner or later be banned.

[Guest]

You are right. This is the dilemma of democracies.

[Guest]

In all modern democracies there are some extremist ideologies that are banned. If the society considers the ideology counterproductive then it should definately be banned. Nazi party is banned in Germany and throughout world. Communist party is banned in many counties. Eliminating parties with extremist ideologies poses no threat to democratic society. It's like picking rotten fruit from the basket. It prevents the healthy ones from rotting.

[Guest]

But let's recognize that this is the mentality of the majority of Armenia's and Diasporan Intellectuals. I don't think it is such a good idea picking them up from the basket.

[Guest]

Dera Boghos,

We should NOT forget that Armenia's independence of 1918-21 was IMPOSED on us by Turkey, in order to isolate Armenia from Russia's influence and protectionnism. The ARF signed some very harmful treaties with Turkey.

 

It IS a controversial subject. But not for the tashnaks...

[Guest]

On a second thought...

ARF should be banned from Armenia. Democracy or not democracy! Their ideology and behaviour has not changed ONE iota, and in the long run they might do more harm than good to Armenia like in the past.

 

Der Bedrossianin agancheh khossi...

[Guest]

Bartev, It is hard to agree with this logic. The independence of Armenia in 1918 was not imposed on us by Turkey, though they where the first one to recognize it. Russia in 1918 was in no position to provide protectionism to Armenia. The Armenian independence was de-facto resulted from the collapse of the Russian Empire. I wonder what treaties do you mean Dashnaktutiun has signed with Turkey? I am not aware of any. Instead I am aware of treaties signed by the Russian government, and by the Soviet Armenian government.

 

Russia’s influence and protectionism had already manifested itself replacing the Persian enslavement of Eastern Armenia by Russian enslavement. Neither socially nor politically or even religiously the Armenian people were better off under the Russian rule than under the Persian rule. Additionally, that influence and protectionism granted us with the greatest gift of all – Genocide (I don’t mean to exaggerate Russia’s role in it and undermine Turkey’s). You also should be aware of the fact that the massacres of Armenians in Gandzasar were provoked by the Russian General-Governor Golitsin, and on the initial stage executed by the Russian regular army detachments dressed in the traditional clothing of Azeri villagers. This massacres There is ample evidence about this fact (and this is not the only fact) in the Russian literature. Indeed these actions of the ruling Russian circles have been directed at derailing the attention of Armenian local leaders from the increasing urge of reestablishing the Armenian statehood, and executing the “divide and conquer” policy. You also should be aware of the fact that in 1920 it was the Red Russia, who encouraged Turkey, which had suffered major setback a while ago in Sardarabad, to attack Armenia, financed and armed the Turkish army, and it attacked Armenia itself at the same time from the North and the South, forcing full capitulation. You should also be aware, that according to the 1921 Russian-Turkish treaty, Russia bestowed upon itself the obligation of executing the agreements of that treaty. Also, you may be advised that the during the Soviet period, and especially in early 1988 it was the Soviet central government, which did everything as to transfer the liberation movement started in Karabagh from a Parliamentary level to a level of massacres of peaceful population. Finally, until the collapse of the Soviet Union, those were the Soviet Regular Army detachments that were executing scorched earth policy in Karabagh, and what saved Karabagh was the collapse of Soviet Union, and the window of opportunity provided to us by the temporary elimination of Russian “protectionism.”

 

This list goes on and on...

 

I think it is the time to analyze our history properly, and learn some lessons from it.

 

P.S. My remarks don’t constitute anti-Russian propaganda. I have enormous admiration for the Russian people and their culture. To a certain degree I owe to Russia for my education.

[Guest]

Dear Bartev,

 

Why don´t you share with us your views and experiences about the ARF in the Middle East ?

 

I am sure it would enrich this discussion.

[Guest]

"Democracy is good! The only thing is that one can never predict the outcome"-Molotov.

[Guest]

This is a silly question and is bound to completely undermine my credibility as an intelligent woman, but I have to ask: what in heaven's name is the ARF???

 

Seriously, I'd appreciate a little descriptive paragraph on it

 

Thanks!!

Gayane

[Guest]

Armenian Revolutionary Federation - Dashnaktiutiun

[Guest]

My fellow brothers, since when do we have the right to ban another party. I am a Dashnak myself and love the ideology of their platform. Around 1920 the Dashnaks had captured Nakhchivan, Karabagh and even Baku until the Azeriz decided to become RED and the RED Army invaded Baku gaining control of the city. Currently the leader of the Dashnaks is Vahan Hovanessian in Armenia. When one hears him speak one can tell that the view of Dashnaks is organized perfectly. ANCA which is the leading Armenian Political Organization was formed by the Dashnaks and till this day is runned by the Dashnaks. The Armenian Diaspora is mostly run by Dashnaks as well. In my opinion they are more active than any other inside and out of Armenia.

 

500 Take Part in ARF Youth Camp

The opening of the first Armenian

Revolutionary Federation Youth camping trip took place in Hankavan, Thursday.

"This gathering is new proof that the ARF has gained a foothold in

Armenia, despite all the difficulties, obstacles and prosecution," ARF

Executive Council of Armenia Representative Armen Rustamian said

in his speech of welcome, addressed to the participants in the

gathering. "The burden of responsibility for the future of our state will

rest on your shoulders," Rustamian emphasized.

The participants in the youth gathering were also greeted by the event's

coordinator, member of the ARF Executive Council of Armenia Gagik

Nersissian and the leader of the ARF parliamentary faction, member of

the ARF Executive Council of Armenia David Lokian.

Lokian told Noyan Tapan that "work with young people has always

been the top priority of the ARF."

The first lecture on the history of the ARF was delivered to the

delegates of the gathering by ARF Bureau Secretary Kiro Manoyan.

The gathering is dedicated to the 10th anniversary of the ARF's

resumed activities in Armenia and will last for a week. Five hundred

young boys and girls from all the regions of Armenia and Artsakh are

participating in the event.

 

 

Also during a campaign stop in Sacramento George Bush met with a Dashnak by the name of

Ohannes Boghossian. Mr. Bush once again told Mr Boghossian his affirmation of the Armenian Genocide.

 

[This message has been edited by artt (edited August 30, 2000).]

[Guest]

Dear MJ

Does the treaty of Alexandropole rings a bell to you?

Or should I go into lengthy details...

[Guest]

Armenians in the Middle East, (Lebanon, Iran and Egypt) had their McCarthyism years thanks to ARF's cruel, shameful and fratricidal accusations of innocent Armenians of being communists. Their collaboration with the CIA and the Turks under Dr. Khatanassian & co. is well known. They even divided the church...

They destroyed many innocent peoples' lives just because these people did not share their ideology.

These are true facts. Not just an opinion.

[Guest]

Dear Bartev, it does, I suspected that that's what you meant, just wanted to make sure. No need for the details.

 

That treaty was a Treaty of capitulation. By all norms of international law, it is non-binding. Additionally, the treaty never was ratified by the Parliament of the Republic of Armenia. So, it remains as a piece of recyclable paper of no other than historic significance. Not to lose our objectivity, we have to admit that it was a clever political maneuver by the Government of Armenia, which had resigned just before signing that Treaty, and had not informed the Turkish side. At the same time, they had quietly formed a Bolshevik Armenian Government, which was at the same time negotiating with the Russians to have them to stop the Turks. They had to choose the least evil.

 

There are only two acting documents, which specify the parameters of the existence of even today's Republic of Armenia:

 

1. Bilateral Russian-Turkish Treaty of March 17(?), 1921 between the then Russian Federation, and Turkey.

2. The surrogate of this Treaty, the October (?), 1921 Four-lateral Treat between Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Turkey, with Russia’s signature on the capacity of an observer.

 

I think you get the idea on hand twisting, which should’ve taken place here.

 

Cheers,

Martin

[Guest]

Bartev, I believe you. And in the large picture, I think that can be forgiven. Things do happen. But what is important, now that things have changed, and years have past, if the ARF wants to restore its good name, it has to give a political assessment to its past, and condemn it. But I don't think that for another decade to come, anything of the kind is foreseeable.

[Guest]

Dear MJ

This subject were discussed for months, and I will tell you that I absolutely agree with Bartev (in all his thoughts). The only VERABAHUM in this case could be banning of ARF in Armenia. I think it will be for their benefit if they banned.

 

Just one wishes. I hope young moderate dashnags will win to this evil Communist style bureaucratic GARUYTS.

 

Harganok

Ararat

[Guest]

Also known as Hay Herapoghagan Tashnaksoutioun. If interested www.arf.am is their web page.