spectra Posted December 27, 2003 Report Share Posted December 27, 2003 Dear friends, I was reading some posts regarding the Armenian History. And I'd like to give my input to this section of this forum. I'd like to let everyone know that the Turks cannot write the history of the Armenia themselves. For that regard they will use the Armenian historians. From my experience of life I have noticed that there are some sort of people that would sell their motherland for money. Unfortunately, there are such people, and they do exist in our Armenian nation. We should be aware of such people, because they can't be supportive to our national issues. Therefore, they cannot write our history! I was reading Armen Aivazian's "The history of Armenia as presented in American histography". I am sure some of you have read this Critical Survey. While I was reading his book I understood that I should not believe in historians like Ronald Grigor Suny who writes such lies about the Armenian history. One important thing should be mentioned is that Ronald Suny did never mention the word Armenia as a kingdom! All he mentions in his book is: Anatolia, as the territory of Armenia. Later on I knew that Armen Aivazian has submitted an article to gain a doctorate degree, unfortunately he was rejected by some 8 corrupted members out of 18 members, while 7 of the members out of 18 members have accepted Aivazian's theory and 3 of the 18 members have had a "problem" with submission slip or forms. This shows yet another victory in our history, this shows that we shall be aware of ourselves. It is true that Aivazian did not get what he was expecting to get, but it shows that there are such Brutoses in our nation. I strongly support Aivazian's theory on the Armenian History. Therefore, I'd like you to get his book and read it. His book is written in Armenian (the criticism). You can get his book by calling +1818 341 6895. My fellow Armenian friends please be very careful from incoming propaganda on our history. Reject the lies and protect what we have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 30, 2003 Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) spectra, I havn't read his new work, but did read some of his others, (those in Armenian, I have tried to read them with my limited Armenian reading). What I can say, is that I hope he don't get translated his Armenian works in English. His Karabagh work is rather interesting, the only one beside "The Armenian Rebellion of the 1720s and the Threat of Genocidal Reprisal". No wonder those get translated and the others not. His works are on the limit of racism if you ask me, picturing Armenians as superior "race" and he even don't manage himself. Example: "With the two rivers [i.e. Euphrates and Tigris] and the [Noah's] Ark, we stand higher than all other[nation]s! " This is a quote from the conclusion translated in English by him. Still, I will be reading his last work, just to see the way he slander others with his arrogance... since his works are free of access here. http://www.artsakhworld.com/Armen_Aivazian...g/MainPage.html Most of them worth just that, free of access and not worth spending anything on them. Reading him, one will feel reading works from Turkish scholars that can't diferenciate myths from realities. Edited December 30, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted December 30, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 30, 2003 (edited) Dear Fedix, To be able to understand Armenian history, or poems, you need to know full Armenian. The Armenian language is very hard language; therefore I think you can't understand his writing in full. I think he wrote all the truth about the Armenian nation. Actually he wrote whatever our historians have written, Movses Khorenatsi, Koryun, Eghishe, also other Roman and Persian historians. I believe to his theory that Armenians are superior race. If Jewish nation could rewrite some Assyrian story as their history then why shouldn't we write the truth? Even some other historians said that Abraham went from Huria during our great king Ara Geghetsik. Now, I wouldn't want to argue over this, but I will keep people informed about this, "the Bible", issue; I listen to these historians almost anytime when they have any update. I think the main concern of Armen Aivazian is to fight for the truth. In his book there is an article about Joseph Emin (Hovsep Emin). In that article Mr. Suny wrote that Armenians, the western Armenians, were very afraid of showing what they are, what nationality they are, which is not true. Suny wrote that when Emin was visiting the Armenians villages, one of his friends told him to hide his nationality, which is Armenian, because Armenians hate themselves. Now if you were Armen Aivazian, such a brave man, wouldn't you fight to prevent such lies? I am brave and I support Aivazian, and I am a superior race, well call me a racist. I am what I am. I love my nation, unlike some other Armenians who are afraid to show their nationality. I guess Suny is right from some point, what he saw was, American Armenians that lose their fait towards their nation and become a union of unknown. Edited December 31, 2003 by spectra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 (edited) As I see, some idiot has deleted my posts again. I would like to send him( or her) my New Years F-word. Edited December 31, 2003 by MJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 MJ it was me and every time you post something that has any insult to anyone - I will delete the whole think so if you like to discus something go for it – but If your going to insult and start name calling sorry – this is the only way - if it's not going to work - the only way is to place you under [Moderator Preview] so the choice is yours Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 And ya thank you for kind words of yours Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJ Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 Then it was addressed to you. I have no desire to discuss anything in such a trash bin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 31, 2003 Report Share Posted December 31, 2003 spectra Armen Aivazian is not fighting for the truth, he is only embarassing us with his idiotic and stupid ideas. I have taken a look at his new work which you refered, I won't even waste my time more on it. My Armenian reading is slow, but it is enought to distinguish what is crap, and this is crap. What I find funny, is that a man of his age and education could find such absurd subjects to write about. The titles doesn't even correspond to the main idea he discuss. He sure is not of the caliber of Suny that he tries to discreditate, at least Suny is someone which worth respect. Armen Aivazian(Akhvesian???) is of the caliber of the so-called Turkish historials that can't differenciate myths from realities and that place importances to insignificant things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 spectra Armen Aivazian is not fighting for the truth, he is only embarassing us with his idiotic and stupid ideas. I have taken a look at his new work which you refered, I won't even waste my time more on it. My Armenian reading is slow, but it is enought to distinguish what is crap, and this is crap. What I find funny, is that a man of his age and education could find such absurd subjects to write about. The titles doesn't even correspond to the main idea he discuss. He sure is not of the caliber of Suny that he tries to discreditate, at least Suny is someone which worth respect. Armen Aivazian(Akhvesian???) is of the caliber of the so-called Turkish historials that can't differenciate myths from realities and that place importances to insignificant things. If you have read the critical survey, then would you please tell me what was embarassing? Just point something from some page, and lets discuss over it. You can call people aghves, shoun, Everyone has a right label for themselves. Anyway, cheer up and have a nice new year's evening... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 And if you have read my answer, you would see nowhere it is indicated that my comment about "embarassing" concerns exclusivaly the work which you refered. You can't even read few lines here, now I do imagine you reading a hole work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted January 1, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Dear Fedix, I thought you were an intelligent people to talk. In foregoing replies you said that Armen Aivazian is embarrassing us with his idiotic ideas*. One if his ideas is the Critical Survey (The book that I referred in previous post). It is true that I have not read the whole book. Technically it is not possible to read a book while you're a busy businessman. But that does not mean I have no clue about Armen Aivazian's thoughts and concerns on our Armenian national issues. If you think that your negative replies on Aivazian will effect on the Superior Armenians, then you are very wrong. My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time, because I will not let anybody to post any anti-Armenian ideas on this or any other Armenian and non-Armenian forums. I am still looking forward to discuss about the Aivazian's "idiotic" ideas. Thanks. * Armen Aivazian is not fighting for the truth, he is only embarassing us with his idiotic and stupid ideas. I have taken a look at his new work which you refered, I won't even waste my time more on it. My Armenian reading is slow, but it is enought to distinguish what is crap, and this is crap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 If you think that your negative replies on Aivazian will effect on the Superior Armenians, then you are very wrong. My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time, because I will not let anybody to post any anti-Armenian ideas on this or any other Armenian and non-Armenian forums. So, is "spectra" pals with the "Superior Armenians" who decide what is, and is not, accepted on this board? And maybe one of those "Superior Armenians", Mosjan, might want to reply and clarify what his potentually troubling (and new?) "I'll erase something that has any insult to anyone " policy means in practice. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 spectra is not part of the mods or the admins of this forum. he has no control of what gets posted and what gets erased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 If you think that your negative replies on Aivazian will effect on the Superior Armenians, then you are very wrong. My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time, because I will not let anybody to post any anti-Armenian ideas on this or any other Armenian and non-Armenian forums. Spectra, you are free to express your ideas and "fight" for them in a civilized manner like most are trying to do in this forum and I believe that you have also been trying to do. But please be realistic, how are you going to not allow others to post differing views? To dispell any suspicion, the posts that were deleted in this thread had nothing to do with contradicting Spectra's idea of "superior Armenians" but breaking the forum rules (which are simply there to assure that no forum member is being insulted and the discussions remain civilized). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Dear Fedix, I thought you were an intelligent people to talk. In foregoing replies you said that Armen Aivazian is embarrassing us with his idiotic ideas*. One if his ideas is the Critical Survey (The book that I referred in previous post). It is true that I have not read the whole book. Technically it is not possible to read a book while you're a busy businessman. But that does not mean I have no clue about Armen Aivazian's thoughts and concerns on our Armenian national issues. If you think that your negative replies on Aivazian will effect on the Superior Armenians, then you are very wrong. My suggestion would be to stop wasting your time, because I will not let anybody to post any anti-Armenian ideas on this or any other Armenian and non-Armenian forums. I am still looking forward to discuss about the Aivazian's "idiotic" ideas. Thanks. * Intelligent people? Sorry to decieve you with my inferior Armenianess. When I refered to Aivazian, I have talked about the overall of his works and not a work in particular, while you are talking about one specific work which you admit not having read it all, yet you think you could comment about what individual he is based on a single work, you you havn'tt even finished. When I talk about an individual, I read about him first and comment after(cause and effect), I have done many reviews of many works, which many are here on hyeforum, you are free to go and read, I am not afraid of quoting and analysing a work, given that I analysed every books of an individual and the large majority of his major essays and has writen over a 100 page about them, and various other individual which I have made about 15 pages each. The individuals which I analysed even if support stupid theses worthed more of my time than this Aivazian, the only reason I was informed of this individual and that he interested me was because I was writting a work and needed the situation of the Armenians during the 18 century, and any kind of revolutionary activites, after my research I found a work writen by him which contained some sources to verify, when I have read the work, I realised that it wasnt really accademic but still found out that some footnotes were worthy of getting(the work which is footnoted), the same goes with his work about Karabagh. After this, I have found that he has writen works in Armenian, usually I do not try to read in Armenian, because I have to force myself and go use the dictionary a lot, more when it is Eastern Armenian with reach words that I have never heard in my life. But still I tried I started to read, I said maybe there may be some materials and I wanted to know about those Armenian scholars from Armenia. I realised that his works are not accademic and that I was probably wasting my time, this individual is in the same line as nationalistic Turkish historians finding some sort of superior values to the Turks. I don't know how common this is in Armenia, I just hope that it is not like Turkey because it is VERY embarassing and just hope as well that this is not because of Armenias education system. I won't talk more about his idiotic ideas, but just keep in mind that I do read about someone before criticizing him. What interest will I have to slander someone that I don't even know? Tell me WHY? Anyone is free to go and read his works, I have provided the link and then come here and tell me if Aivazians ideas are in fact idiotic, worthless(discuss about things that are REALLY unimportant) etc...(I'm short of words) Signed: An inferior Armenian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Domino, I think you are being too harsh on Aivazian. So if a work by him is not academic then it is not worth reading? I don't think so. I agree that he is a nationalist, but he is also a historian, so if you read his non-academic work as a non-academic one then perhaps it will be less embarassing. I wonder if you ever read poetry and say "this is such an embarassing work, no evidence, no footnotes, etc.." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Domino, I think you are being too harsh on Aivazian. So if a work by him is not academic then it is not worth reading? I don't think so. I agree that he is a nationalist, but he is also a historian, so if you read his non-academic work as a non-academic one then perhaps it will be less embarassing. I wonder if you ever read poetry and say "this is such an embarassing work, no evidence, no footnotes, etc.." Sasun, when you read an accademic work, and that it is claimed to be just that, you expect it to be an accademic work, his works are classified as historical papers, not mythological regurgitations. Sasun, like I said, anyone is free to go read his works, go read them and see by yourself what I mean, after reading them I dought you will tell me that I am overreacting. This guy style is exactly the same as those of nationalistic Turkish so-called historians. What gives this man the right to discreditate a respected intellectual, and that me answering back, would be overreacting. More so, when Suny claim is true and that no independent historian will deny. Aivazian can not differenciate between a territory that an ethnic group live with a recognised nation state, something which did not exist on the era that Suny cover in his work that is criticised by Aivazian. A scholar that does not know such basic fact does not worth any attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 What gives this man the right to discreditate a respected intellectual, and that me answering back, would be overreacting. More so, when Suny claim is true and that no independent historian will deny. Aivazian can not differenciate between a territory that an ethnic group live with a recognised nation state, something which did not exist on the era that Suny cover in his work that is criticised by Aivazian. A scholar that does not know such basic fact does not worth any attention. Domino, point well taken. I don't really know about this work where he criticizes Suny (could someone please give the link to this work?) but I have read some other works and he makes a lot of sense to me. But then, I am not a historian, so can't judge his credits as historian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 1, 2004 Report Share Posted January 1, 2004 Sasun, the work in question could be found here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Sasun, the work in question could be found here. Ay! Too bad it's not in unicode - Domino, do you know what font is being used on this site. i'm unable to read it... thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 I choose Western European (ISO) and it works Maybe I have installed some font before, sorry can't remember. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 (edited) Ay! Too bad it's not in unicode - Domino, do you know what font is being used on this site. i'm unable to read it... thanks Vava, I don't know how Sasun do it, but unfortunitally I have to copy past texts like that in word and change the font to an Armenian one... do that and it should work, I know it require time... but I was never able to configurate it to read it right away like that. Edited January 2, 2004 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted January 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 (edited) Dear Fedix, Happy birthday. Suny always referred the western Armenia is Anatolia and eastern Armenia as Armenia. What is your concern about that article? Don't you think Suny is bribed by pro-Turkish historians and writes such lies about Armenian history? Like you have said what Suny claims is the truth, does that mean Movses Khorenatsi was wrong? Edited January 2, 2004 by spectra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectra Posted January 2, 2004 Author Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 (edited) Ay! Too bad it's not in unicode - Domino, do you know what font is being used on this site. i'm unable to read it... thanks Try this users guide for Armenian Fonts http://www.artsakhworld.com/fonts/armlang.html it may be helpful. Edited January 2, 2004 by spectra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted January 2, 2004 Report Share Posted January 2, 2004 Here my two golden napoleons There was NO Eastern and Western Armenia up until 1828. There were Medz Haik (Great Armenia), Pokr Haik (.....petite maybe:) Armenia), Giligia (Cilicia) and some other adjecent regions known as Pontus, Capadokia, Lake Urmia region, Eastern Anatolia who were populated by Armenians at different times but rarely under Armenian rule. The division East / West became effective after 1828 when portion of what geographically might be called Eastern Armenia was 'liberated' and thus became gubernia under the Russian Empire. Some may argue that there were acctualy Eastern and Western Armenians even before that, but those divisions hadn't had political nature, but cultural and regional just like Northern Armenians are very different from Southern Armenians in their customs and way of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.