ED Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 you people are nuts, specialy you Domino How do you come up with this things anyways? My answer is yes if not more, come and think about it, man has broken every natural law there is on this earth, and why not if give more rights to animals, plants. I can think of few “people” (things) of hand who don’t even deserve to breath this polluted air, yet who are we do give rights to chimps and other animals????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) Edward, we are nothing, that is true, but we still should give right to them, if we are nobody to give them rights. We should consider that we are like psychopaths(unable to know what is right and wrong). A psychopath must carry a notepat with him writen on it what he should or should not do. Since we have proven ourself that we are the last on Earth to be able to give lessons of morality, we should like the psychopath, write things to remember us that we have no right to do that. As how I come up with these things? It just pop up in my head before I fall asleep. Edited December 18, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Stormy, a domesticated dog, is not and should not be considered like a wild dog... and I never said to separate them from their parents. Did I? You're right, they just leave home once they're 18 or whenever it is that chimps come of age, and they try to get professions they are too old to learn, like helping blind people cross the street. Else, you bring in their parents, too. And let's not forget the baby chimps' right to fun time and play and having a happy childhood. For that they should go to kindergarten, then primary, then finally at least secondary school. Heaven forbid chimps drop out or be blind, who is to be recruited to help them - cats? How can chimps have the same rights? I mean, with historical and moral rights, are chimps also going to be able to ask for repatriation of ancestors' remains and the right to possess fire-arms and things like that? They just don't have the same institutions we do. I wasn't saying a domestic breed and a wild dog are to be put in the same bag - they are not. I already provided for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Stormy, having the same rights doesn't mean all the rights, it means the right that could be applied to them. For instance, freedom of speech could possibly not be applied to chimps, because they can't talk. As for firearms, from when on, do a kid of 5 years old has the right to possess firearms, your anaolgy does not work at all. The rest of your comparaisons can not be applied to chimps, you can only compare what can be compared. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Oh, and I wouldn't give chimps the right to vote - their dispositions could be exploited by those people chasing votes - http://www.anvari.org/fun/World_Trade_Cent...ush_Monkey.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Domino, I think if they could talk, they'd want more rights, including all of the above, and I'd be feeling ashamed for oppressing them and telling them I think they are like human retards at best. Besides, five-year-olds don't leave their parents' homes either - never mind when a chimp comes of age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Oh, and I wouldn't give chimps the right to vote - their dispositions could be exploited by those people chasing votes - http://www.anvari.org/fun/World_Trade_Cent...ush_Monkey.html They can not vote, they must have 18 years old of mental age. But they can still protest asking why they can not vote when they don't have the mental age of an 18 years old when human candidates runing for presidency don't do better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Domino, I think if they could talk, they'd want more rights, including all of the above, and I'd be feeling ashamed for oppressing them and telling them I think they are like human retards at best. Besides, five-year-olds don't leave their parents' homes either - never mind when a chimp comes of age. Stormy, if they could talk, they would still be retards, they could not find it unjust to be compared with retards, would a retard find unjust to be compared to a retard? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 I don't know if a retard would find it unjust to be compared to a retard - I seriously don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 But then, yes, they might still run for president of the U. S. of A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 But then, yes, they might still run for president of the U. S. of A. They can't possibly do worst than Bush, can they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 And what's this, everyone seems to be saying "yes"... Is it because they are fooling around or are trying to contradict me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) Clarification as to why I have posted this poll on the Theology section. First I didn't knew where to post it, I could have posted it on "Others" but I was sure that the poll would become a trash bin if I were to post it there. The science and technology could have been a good choice, but since the poll was more about ethics and that the theology section was as well used to post about morality and ethics, I've found that it was the only place I could have posted it to expect interesting replies. If moderators think it was not the best place to post it, feel free to change its place. Edited December 18, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 OK Domino, now that you have received many serous replies I moved the poll to "Other" Had it been about humans it could stay in "Theology" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Well, chimps are 99% humans, are they not. I later thought that maybe me having posted it at the theology section could sound like I was trying to ridiculise religion by comparing monkeys with humans, but when I started the poll I had absolutly not that in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 It might me offensive to chimpanzes, you never know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 There are only 2 people that voted no. I can't believe this I don't think chimapnzees should have the same rights as humans but I do think 5 year old kids should have the same rights as chimpanzees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 There are only 2 people that voted no. I can't believe this I don't think Chimapnzees should have the same rights as humans but I do think 5 year old kids should have the same rights as chimpanzees. And what will be next? That PhDs should have more rights than others? I think that any animals that can recognise themselves on a mirror should have every human rights that could be aplied to them, this is basic, self-reflectivness is highly expected when an animal recognise itself on the mirror, and this conscienceness should be protected. Who are you to tell us that chimps should not have those rights? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 And what will be next? That PhDs should have more rights than others? I don't know if "PhD" is a measure of anything but certainly someone with diminished mental abilities (aka retard) should not have voting rights to select the president. Otherwise, you get people like Bush in the office. Come to think of it, it's porbably better that people with diminished mental abilities (aka retard) not be allowed to run for office. By the way, I don't think we allow 5-year olds to vote. (I hope) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Someone with a diminished mental ability being equivalent to a chimp, only those laws that could be applied to them would be applied. Voting when you don't have the mental age is a different issue, since you won't consider that a chimp will ever be 18 years old, you won't give them the right to vote. This has nothing to do with what i am talking about. I can't understand how anyone can vote no! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 You ask should chimps be protected under same laws as humans. I think answer is no. They should be protected under chimp laws (or "higher order primates"). Can we experiment on them? Yes. But in controlled ways and hopefully not just for profit and hopefully not too many experiments that are painful or involves us cutting into their brains or something while they are alive. Can we use them as slaves? No. Can we train and send a few of them to space? Sure. Can we train and use them like bomb sniffing dogs for special tasks? Sure as long as they are treated not like slaves/tools but like creatures that need comfort at times. Should we do the same with 5 year olds? Probably not since most 5 year olds are fairly useless. (but to clarify, they do have great potential and thus should be valued more than chimps I think) Should chimps be allowed to compete in Olympics? No. Should chimps be allowed to compete in Special Olympics? No. Should chimps be allowed to compete in Chimp Olympics? YES!!!! and I'd pay good money to see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Sip, those laws that we call human laws should not be restrictive to only humans, they should be applied when they could be applied. Take the UN universal declaration, list it here, and I will show you that there is no exeption to if any of those laws should not be applied to chimps when they can be applied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Domino, your main problem here, as far as I can see, is that "human laws" (or are we talking rights?) are based on the assumption that there is adult human intelligence that can follow the laws. I am starting to suspect you are referring to "rights" and not "laws". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted December 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 (edited) You're right, I was talking about rights. Can you be nice and edit my poll. Edited December 18, 2003 by Fadix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted December 18, 2003 Report Share Posted December 18, 2003 Maybe we should start a new poll ... but this time you can list the rights you refer to. Obviously china has a very different views on human rights than Angola, Turkey, or US. You said "UN" ... so first of all, should all countries follow those human "rights" ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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