gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Long live Rock'n Rollhttp://www.toumaniantheatre.com/mdp/festival/ http://www.toumaniantheatre.com/mdp/images/fest/kollazh_1st.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 "Rock and Roll" "Rock and Roll"... Tell me, why do you like rock and roll? What do you get from it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 First I'm very picky when it comes to music. Second, I don't like all kinds of rock groups. Third, I was brought up with this music. What I get from it? Sheer excitment and joy! Plus, I played in a Rock Band when in High School. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Sheer excitement and joy. OK. What elements of rock and roll give you "sheer excitement and joy?" The rhythm? why? how? The lyrics? why? how? What else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hagop, sorry but you sound as ayatolah! He, He... or you are close to the "last lap". Where have you been born man? Jibuty, Palestine, Iran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 (edited) You didn't understand the questions? Why are you, "gamavor," you, personally infatuated with rock and roll? Are you afraid to respond (don't want to be held liable, responsible, or accountable for your enfatuation?), or do think that "everyone should know?" Perhaps you feel that this "unique set of feelings" you harbor for rock and roll are "too well known to bother" but "to secretive to respond with?" Does that sound strange? Are you saying that you are just like "everyone?" I would imagine that you consider yourself quite the independent individual who "don't let shit get in our way." Am I wrong? Are you one who is "just like everyone else," and therefore, "being from Djibouti," I should "already know the answer" to why "one should like rock and roll?" Maybe I want your personal, individual, UNIQUE input on what rock and roll means to you? Or, again, are you saying that this is not possible? Edited November 27, 2003 by hagopn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 It is not my goal in life to be different. I like rock music just like the majority of people I know. I also listen to jazz and classical and folk music. If I have to explain to you why it will take 10-20 pages. That's why I asked you where have you been born. Most of the time when I say I like Pink Floyd people do not ask me why! They know why! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Ah, interesting! To give you an idea of how young I am, my older sister was a Pink Floyd fan. You answered many of the questions I had concerning the psychological reasons of "liking" this cultural trend of "individual and free people" (too much contradiction in that?), but I would still like to know if you like the music for itself and not for the fact that it is a "manner of conforming to what others like." For this reason, I asked specifically musical questions: BTW, I am a musician, professional musician, who has made a living playing virtually every kind of music you can imagine... So, you say that part of the reason you like rock and roll because everyone else (the "majority") you know likes it. Isn't that what you just said, or am I misunderstanding something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 The list below will help you understand why I like rock music! I like cheese cakeI like wearing jeans (because I used to wear suits monday to friday)I like mountins and lakes and sea shoresI like beutiful girls with not that rigid attitudeI like Davidoff cigars.... In one word I like good things in life. So, next time when you ask somebody why you like rock music, don't be surprised if the answer is 'because i like it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 (edited) G-man said: "The list below will help you understand why I like rock music!" Partly, yes, and I appreciate your candor, but that is not complete. G-man said: "I like cheese cake"G-man said: "I like wearing jeans (because I used to wear suits monday to friday)"G-man said: "I like mountins and lakes and sea shores"G-man said: "I like beutiful girls with not that rigid attitude"G-man said: "I like Davidoff cigars...." G-man said: "In one word I like good things in life." Well, "good things" is about perspective, of course. Perhaps the "not so rigid" girls have herpes that might burn you for life, and perhaps too much cheesecake might give you a nice combo of lard handle (or was that "love handle"?) and insluin injection schedule. G-man said: "So, next time when you ask somebody why you like rock music, don't be surprised if the answer is 'because i like it'." Well, that's not what you said before. You said "I like it because the majority likes it," and you went further and made the assumption that I should ALREADY UNDERSTAND why YOU (?) should like it. AND, furthermore, you accused me of being possibly being "born in Djibouti" (that's actually close to where I was born!), because I asked such a "strange question." So far we have you saying that rock and roll is "something you like simply because you like the good things in life," and at the same time you say that "everyone should know why the majority like rock and roll," despite the assertion in the last "I like it becuase" response that seems to say that "rock and roll infatuation is an individual and unique endeavor." Now, you can understand why this is confusing, can you not? If not, then I suggest you read the formula again. However, I, as a musician, am offering my (taste consultation) services in order to help decipher the actual MUSICAL reasons that you, as the "independent soul," likes rock and roll. Perhaps a brief questionnaire of just three basic "elements" to start with: 1. Do you like loudness in music, and why? 2. Do you perhaps like the sound of the guitar in various modes of phase and distortion, and why? What feelings do you get when you hear that instrument. 3. Do you like to hear "fast licks" on the guitar, and why? After that, if we get answers, perhaps we can move onto the sociological elements... Edited November 27, 2003 by hagopn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 You didn't understand the questions? Why are you, "gamavor," you, personally infatuated with rock and roll?What kind of answer do you expect? How can one describe why a certain art form is "infatuating"? Do you want an answer like oh well, when I take the fast fourier transform of the accoustic waves produced through the loud speaker cone of an audio amplifier playing rock and roll music, I see that the dominant frequency bins are correlated accross 3 levels of z-norm manifolds? Oh yah ... that's what I like? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 (edited) You didn't understand the questions? Why are you, "gamavor," you, personally infatuated with rock and roll?What kind of answer do you expect? How can one describe why a certain art form is "infatuating"? Do you want an answer like oh well, when I take the fast fourier transform of the accoustic waves produced through the loud speaker cone of an audio amplifier playing rock and roll music, I see that the dominant frequency bins are correlated accross 3 levels of z-norm manifolds? Oh yah ... that's what I like? :lol2: .... just for the record if anyone asks why i like men , i'll have to say because they're not women Edited November 27, 2003 by hyebruin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 So, G-man was right after all You were born close to Djibuty, hence you have no idea what is good in life, the majority likes rock music because G-man likes it too, .... and yes the lack of perspective means not having condom handy. Hagop you are funny, G-man said so! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Well, G-man, you have proven many points, but you are free to refute them anytime you wish. Reasons for liking rock and roll: 1. It is primarily group reflex. 2. It is "unexplainable emotional response" to the average listener as to why the music itself is "liked." The average individual has no idea why, in fact, he likes the music: No concrete musical preferentials determine the choice, but instead the preference is more sociologically (isopraxis) based. 3. It is somehow, however loosely, associated with one's lifestyle more han one's concrete musical aural demands. This is just a re-iteration of the above in some sense, for the sake of clarity. Sea-Pahn, Your objection to my questionnaire is entirely reasonable, but ironically you do have something important at hand. In fact, a very well known recording engineer once told me that "the death of an album depends on the rollover bass frequencies that saturate the overall spectrum. If the lower frequencies are not controlled, and if the beat frequency is inadequately filtered and boosted, then the album will fail." He has, after all, mixed 2000+ albums in the "pop, rock, and hip-hop" genre. To further state his interesting comments: "As an engineer, I like to mix accoustic, mostly folkloric, music, due to the individual touch I can give that album..." The implication is that the "rock, pop, hip-hop" counter-culture is based on absolute formulas in recording applications and, yes, I cn vouch for it, in performance rules; very stringent, very strict, and very narrow-minded. But, that is only my professional experience. Others will see it another way. In any case, I am still curious as to why, Gamavor, you, or Hyebruin LIKE or DISLIKE music. I always am interested to know. After all, one has to know what others are thinking, especially non-musicians, about music in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hagop you are wrong. As I said I have diverse musical preferences. If liking certain type of music is closely related (or resulted) of one's social standing or place according to the leather theory, than his other likings in a variaty of musical styles would be complete enigma. In my opinion, particular musical taste (and art) in general are reflection of the individual aesthetic preferences, which undoubtedly might be strogly influenced of his social standing.In your questionary you mentioned exactly the things that I'm not very fond of with regard to rock music (I believe there is a difference between noise making and music). On the other hand a right combination of the two, such as in Judas Priest, Puple and plead of others is very appealing and I like it (please don't ask again why). The majority is relative. I choose the people that I like to communicate with and those people have similar to main taste for many things. That way we become friends. There are those among my social group that have different tastes but I still tolerate them because of their other qualities. I'm afraid recently that the rock scene has become a place for total trash in terms of professionalism and musicianship. The examples are numerous, thus rock music has lost the connection with what is the 'issue of the day' and was bruttaly replaced by amatours and Brithney Spears pop.... stars. As I said I can write alot but I'm not in a mood. Just cope with people preferences and listen to what you like. You still have a chance to join the 'majority'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm afraid recently that the rock scene has become a place for total trash in terms of professionalism and musicianship. You've been listening to the wrong radio stations. Rock music, guitar music and non-commercial music in general is still blooming. Try searching the internet or buy good magazines. Hagopn, I can only answer part of your questions per song or track, but not per genre or even per band. As for Gamavor, do forgive him. He likes the Beatles for crying out loud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 hagopn, I can tell you about Evanescence .. I am absolutely infatuated by their music. The reason is first their lead vocal (female) has an incredible voice (one of the best I have ever heard). Second, their lyrics are very well put together and do convey a message. Their music is dark rock mixed at times with ballads and melodic things (such as one of their tracks where there is a piano melody accompanying everything else). I don't know about their rollover bass frequencies but I have been able to set my low-pass in the blazer such that the low end just HITS very hard and very crisp. The top end is also pretty clear but I do get some strange resonnances sometimes which I think is due to my againg 4x6 inch component plates ... but nothing a bit of equalizing doesn't fix. There is one particular track on their Fallen CD that will make my hair stand up every time when the volume is set just right. Perfect lows, perfect mids, perfect highs and the melody just takes you over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 (edited) "Hagop you are wrong. As I said I have diverse musical preferences. If liking certain type of music is closely related (or resulted) of one's social standing or place according to the leather theory, than his other likings in a variaty of musical styles would be complete enigma. In my opinion, particular musical taste (and art) in general are reflection of the individual aesthetic preferences, which undoubtedly might be strogly influenced of his social standing." Fair enough as a textbook explanation of "why things are the way they are," but, again, that does not get into the specifics of why YOU like the genre. I want to hear you, not the textbook. Well, I had to edit and add that the idea that "social standing" determines your musical preferences is very easily refuted, especially since it does not really cost more to be exposed in one genre more than another. "In your questionary you mentioned exactly the things that I'm not very fond of with regard to rock music (I believe there is a difference between noise making and music). On the other hand a right combination of the two, such as in Judas Priest, Puple and plead of others is very appealing and I like it (please don't ask again why)." Hmmm. Now we are getting more musically specific. Excellent! So your ideal musical experience is one that combines "consonance and dissonance" in terms of texture, rhythm, as well as nuance. Does that sound right? As to lyrical content: Judas Priest, Deep Purple, and so on, what catches you there? The majority is relative. I choose the people that I like to communicate with and those people have similar to main taste for many things. That way we become friends. There are those among my social group that have different tastes but I still tolerate them because of their other qualities. Very interesting. Your cultural (musical, etc) preferences determine your choice in "true friends" and those you merely "tolerate?" Meaning that, if they happen to not prefer rock and roll, but, instead, let us say, they prefer Mozart or Bollywood(?!), you merely "tolerate" their presence due to indifference or dislike? I'm afraid recently that the rock scene has become a place for total trash in terms of professionalism and musicianship. The examples are numerous, thus rock music has lost the connection with what is the 'issue of the day' and was bruttaly replaced by amatours and Brithney Spears pop.... stars. As I said I can write alot but I'm not in a mood. Just cope with people preferences and listen to what you like. You still have a chance to join the 'majority'. Ah, the issue of the day. So it is again not a matter of musical preference, the musical demands, as it is about social protest. Is that correct? Today, you seem to be complaining that Brittney Spears and other such "teeny-boppers" are no longer participants in social protest, but are, instead, part and parcel of the marketing/consumerist establishment. Still, that does not answer all my questions... But, you say that the "attributes" of rock and roll that I itemized are precisely why you DON'T like rock and roll? Are you certain that you don't like the guitar? Hmmm... Edited November 27, 2003 by hagopn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Naircho, baw-baw, baw-baw.. You need to eat lots of bread and butter...Beatles is not about crying. Wings are! Why I'm waisting my time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 I'm the way, and life and ...the textbook! Told you, cope with it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hagop, wrong again. I like diverse styles of music. Is it that hard to understand. I like also Kansas, Asia (the first album, the others suck), Jethro, Fish, Saga, Yes, Rush and many others that I'm afraid you never heard of. I like Mozart too, I even like president Bush! Well, not really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Cope? Nah, don't worry about me. However, I am still under the impression that, especially after your assertions on "social standing," you still fundamentally believe that musical choices are socially dependent. In other words, "social standing" means nothing other than "the group to which I belong." In essence, music, for most, is a social engine to interact, at a certain emotional level, with others... Folk music, for example, is the same phenomenon, but the difference with it and the "pop, rock, hip-hop" counter-culture is that folk is truly that of a classless, ageless, and genderless base. It is truly that of "uiion in community," and the startling thing about it is that it is MORE individualistic than ay other genre! Go figure... More later... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted November 27, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Common now, Folk individualistic?!? As a method of expression, maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Hagop, wrong again. I like diverse styles of music. Is it that hard to understand. I like also Kansas, Asia (the first album, the others suck), Jethro, Fish, Saga, Yes, Rush and many others that I'm afraid you never heard of. I like Mozart too, I even like president Bush! Well, not really What do you consider "diverse"? Mozart? Which works? What "turned you on" to Mozart (since that's the verbiage I always get, "turned me on, turne me off..." etc.) I once asked a classmate what sorts of music he likes. His response was: "Well, I like all of them. I like Blues, Rock, Jazz, and Pop." "All of them..." hmm.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagopn Posted November 27, 2003 Report Share Posted November 27, 2003 Common now, Folk individualistic?!? As a method of expression, maybe. Ah, I am referring to true folk music, as that collected and described by Komitas, for example... Folk, "of the people, amongst the people, by the people..." Recording technologies kind of destroyed that ethos almost permanently. Have you ever read about Komitas' theories? His essays? Interesting stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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