Judeo-Turkish Romance

[Arpa]

I thought this deserved a separate subject topic as it has very little to do with things Armenian and the Genocide. Let's leave Armenian affairs in their proper context. Jews have their dreams and problems just as Armenians, neither shall encroach on the other.

 

Judeo-Turkish romance and other fables.

Somebody here said that the offspring of such a romance would be a "jurk".

Who was it?

Was it you Seap?

Just you wait.

Don't answer the doorbell.

It may be that Rabbi with a dull knife coming to cut your .... nose. :)

 

There are many myths and fables. Some are just funny if sad, like the one about Armenians being the smartest of all people. The only problem is nobody has yet explained how it is that the "smartest of all people" is in such a dire predicament, a beggar even worse than the panhandlers of downtown LA.

 

Then there are myths and fables about the eternal love affair of Jews and Turks.

I asked the question below. So far nobody has tackled it yet. Our Jewish Friend has made it clearly plain that he does not subscribe to it, but our other (not)"friend" Nasty has taken the fifth and has swallowed his tongue among other.

 

OK.

Maybe now I can get an answer to a not so rhetorical question that I have asked amillion times before.

Now that we have a Turks and a Jew in the same thread perhaps they can answer a question.

If Turks and Jews were such great lovers all these years, claiming their eternal love since the Spanish Inquisition why is it that during over 400 hunderd years of Ottoman Turkish hegemony over the entire Middle East, Jews, the sweetheart of the Turks were never granted a homeland, which was never materilaized until the Ottomans and the British were both thrown out?

Let me repeat. This is not an idle rhetorical question. I am looking for logical answers.

Does anybody know?

Go at it Nasty and JF!!

 

It all started in the year 70 AD when Jewrusalem was destroyed and the Temple burned down. Since then many have come and gone, Assyrians, Balbylonians, Romans, Persians, Arabs and of course the Ottomans.

 

Jewish diaspora;

http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/b...english/04.html

 

If Turkey was such a good friend where were they in the year 70 AD? If what they say is true, if they were such good friends and protectors of the Jews by now Jerusalem would be where Ankara is and Istanbul would be better known as Tel Aviv.

What? Are you nuts? In 70 AD turkey may have been a dumb bird as no one had heard of the Turk. Yet this is the kind of nonsense one would see day after day. Fortunately there seem to be a very few intelligent people left to question it.

See for yourself.

J-T debate;

http://www.turkey.com/forums/showthread.ph...62&pagenumber=1

 

Speaking of Jewish diaspora, has any body heard of the following. It may be very entertaining.

 

Jewish Autonomous Oblast: Has anybody heard of Brobidzan? If for nothing at least have fun.

http://birobidzhan.swarthmore.edu/

 

OK Nasty. Let's hear your gobbledigook!

 

 

And finally, Jews of Armenia; We have seen this before.

http://www.haruth.com/JewsArmenia.html

 

PS. I just noticed that I had misspelled Jerusalem as Jewrusalem, but I'll leave it as such

[America-Hye]

I took a course in Soviet History, taught by a Russian Jew, so I am VERY familiar with this Oblast. I wrote two term papers in this course on Armenian history under the Soviets. The Professor was pleased with these reports and I got an A in the class.

[joseph parikian]

“O you believers! Take not the Jews and Christians for friends and protectors. They are friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you who turns to them for friendship is one of them!” Quran 5:51

 

Or, “O you People of the Book! Believe in what We have (now) revealed, confirming what was (already) with you, before We change the face and fame of some (of you) beyond all recognition, and turn them hindwards, or curse them as We cursed the Sabbath-breakers, for the decision of Allah must be carried out. Quran 4:47

 

Or, “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, (meaning the Jews and the Christians) until they pay the Jizya (the tax imposed upon them) with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.” (with humiliation and submission to the government of Islam.) Quran 9:29

 

Or, “You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them hide behind stones, the stone will betray them saying, O Abdullah (i.e slave of Allah) there is a Jew behind me, so kill him” (Hadith, sayings of Muhammad)

 

Or, “Fighting is prescribed upon you, and you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and that you love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not.” Quran 2:216”

 

Or, “Fight those who leave Islam and God will torture them by your hands:” Quran 9:12

 

Or, “The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter” Quran5:33

 

Or, “Allah hath purchased of the Believers their persons and their goods; for them (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur-an: and who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah?” Quran 9:111

 

Or, "Therefore, when you meet the Unbelievers, smite at their necks; at length, when you have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are you commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.” 47:4

 

Or, “But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.” Quran 9:5

 

Or, “Not equal are those Believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) hath Allah promised good: but those who strive and fight hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward.” Quran 4:95

[vava]

So Joseph, quotes from the Quran are fine, but what are you trying to say?

[MJ]

So Joseph, quotes from the Quran are fine, but what are you trying to say?

He is just trying to cheat you or has been cheated himself.

 

This issue has been discussed in the Religion section in the past.

[Arpa]

Here is another love story to add to the Judeo Turkish Romance.

 

http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/story.jsp...07&floc=NW_5-L2

[Anoushik]

If Turkey was such a good friend where were they in the year 70 AD? ...

What? Are you nuts? In 70 AD turkey may have been a dumb bird as no one had heard of the Turk. Yet this is the kind of nonsense one would see day after day. Fortunately there seem to be a very few intelligent people left to question it.

You are right Arpa.

 

First, Turkey's history only dates back to year A.D. 1000, when those blood-thirsty monsters came from central Asia and conquered the Byzantine Empire in Anatolia.

 

Second, the Turks are known internationally to be two-faced. A convincing example is WWII. Turkey avoided entering the war (1939-1945) until February 1945, when Germany's defeat seemed certain.

 

There is no country that can (or wants) to call Turkey their friend and ally because it is certain that Turkey will stab them in the back just to gain a little, even if for that split second.

[Stormig]

And the geniuses on this forum give me an example of "true friend" countries, starting with the U.S. of A. with a history of a quarter millenium started by the same civilized West/Europeans who slaughtered the native populations of the Americas if they were not decimated by disease already to the point where today they know neither their languages nor their religions nor their cultures. And I'm not talking about just "heathen" nomads, I am talking about the Aztecs and the Incas as well. Who today has apologized for these holocausts? And I believe even just this year Columbus day was celebrated. And don't even start me talking about the African continent.

Get a freaking clue!

[Anoushik]

Stormy, who said anything about "true friends"?

The bottom line is that everyone first thinks of himself and what he can do to benefit first.

I am just talking about the countries who, in this day and age, have similar goals and hopes for the future, and those countries are most likely to support each other in times of crisis. (ex. EU.)

Turkey's intentions of benefitting-for-the-moment-no-matter-what-and-forgetting-everyone-else are so obvious. Unfortunately, the reason they are getting so much support from the US is because Turkey is the only secular country amongst those Muslim states, and loosing Turkey to religious fundamentalists would be a disaster according to the US.

It's all about politics.

[Stormig]

In politics, there is nothing as "benefitting-for-the-moment-no-matter-what-and-forgetting-everyone-else"... Only "true friends" don't forget others. Inapplicable.

Geez, people look at me weirdly for my "Meet the U.S." thread, yet there are others that demonize entities in the most childish of ways. <_<

All countries are equal ship high in transit, some are more ship high in transit than others.

 

 

Manure

 

Courtesy of Charms

 

Manure In the 16th and 17th centuries, everything had to be transported

by ship and it was also before commercial fertilizer's invention, so large

shipments of manure were common.

 

It was shipped dry, because in dry form it weighed a lot less than when

wet, but once water (at sea) hit it, it not only became heavier, but the

process of fermentation began again, of which a by product is methane

gas.

 

As the stuff was stored below decks in bundles you can see what could

(and did) happen. Methane began to build up below decks and the first

time someone came below at night with a lantern, BOOOOM!

 

Several ships were destroyed in this manner before it was determined

just what was happening.

 

After that, the bundles of manure were always stamped with the term

"Ship High In Transit" on them which meant for the sailors to stow it

high enough off the lower decks so that any water that came into the

hold would not touch this volatile cargo and start the production of

methane.

 

Thus evolved the term "S.H.I.T " , (Ship High In Transport) which has

come down through the centuries and is in use to this very day.

 

You probably did not know the true history of this word.

 

Neither did I. I thought it was a Golf Term

[America-Hye]

Stop with the racist crap. We Armenians also have Far East genes mixed in. The Turks today are primarily descended from Anatolians who the original conquerers changed into Moslems and Turks by the force of the sword. Look at our differences as cultural, not racial because they are as Mediterranean as we are and we are almost as East Asian as they are. They are destroying our monuments because they want our history in Anatolia to disappear. Don't lie to yourselves about our gentic background. Making bad talk about Asians while we take money from the Chinese and Japanese and they build monuments in ROA. To talk like that is being an esheg.

[Anoushik]

Stop with the racist crap. We Armenians also have Far East genes mixed in. The Turks today are primarily descended from Anatolians who the original conquerers changed into Moslems and Turks by the force of the sword. Look at our differences as cultural, not racial because they are as Mediterranean as we are and we are almost as East Asian as they are. They are destroying our monuments because they want our history in Anatolia to disappear. Don't lie to yourselves about our gentic background. Making bad talk about Asians while we take money from the Chinese and Japanese and they build monuments in ROA. To talk like that is  being an esheg.

:nono:

 

Where are you getting those false ideas from?

Edited November 16, 2003 by anoushik

[Anoushik]

Making bad talk about Asians while we take money from the Chinese and Japanese and they build monuments in ROA.

Talking about Turkey has nothing to do with the Chinese or the Japanese!!!!!!

Edited November 16, 2003 by anoushik