Anti-semitism and Armenians

[Guest]

Farsi, where did you get such an anti Hayastantsi attitude. Go to campus of UCLA and USC, the major universities in Southern California, and you will see more Hayastantsi than any other Armenian.

 

Now back to Anti Semitism. I respect Jews for creating a country, but I don't like the fact that Israel is such a military powerhouse, armed with nuclear weapons. They remind me of Crusaders in the middle ages, who where bullying their neighbors. It's true that GDP per capita in Israel is higher than in many European countries, but I can guarantee you that their lifestyle is not as good as the statistics show. It's great for people who live in Haifa and Tel Aviv, but if you move beyond these cities it's really a 3rd world country.

 

Steve have you ever thought why there are no Jews in Armenia, it's not because we don't like them, it's because being an enterpreneurial nation ourselves, Jews could not establish successful businesses in Armenia and compete with locals, just like they have done in neighboring Georgia and Azerbaijan. Steve we don't envy them. We, Armenians, strive under pressure and competition. Competition brings out the best in us. So having Jews compete with us in the business world actually benefits both our nations.

 

You also have to consider that Jews in the United States have a disproportionate power, and that causes some resentment from Anglo Saxon majority. You are one of Anglo Saxons I think you should know about this more. They control most major media outlets. Open the LA or NY Times and you will see how often they write about Israel. It's just amazing.

 

The fact that most investment banks, Morgan Stanley, and Bear Sterns are dominated by Jewish professionals also causes some resentment in business community. Have you ever thought why are there so many successful high tech businesses in Israel, because investment banks support them. But I have to admit that they, Jews, are extremely dedicated professionals. If you go to University of Pensylvania, business school of Wharton, the best in the country, it's dominated by Jewish and to some extend by people from Levantine countries.

 

So whatever they have achieved is through hard work. I'd recommend you to read more Financial Times, a London based newspaper, and you will get more objective information about what's going in the Middle East.

[Guest]

Alpha,

 

If you live here in America, particularly California, you should know there is no "Anglo-Saxon" majority. In a few years more than half the US population will be either Latino,Black or Asian! I myself am not Anglo-Saxon, My dad is Irish(celtic) with Chocktaw Indian blood as well. My mom of course is pure Armenian.

 

As for my sources of information, please don't worry about them. I read from multiple perspectives. I read both British and American publications, as well as Latin American magazines as I speak Spanish. By the way you are wrong about Jews not being in Armenia, at one time there was a thriving Jewish community in Yerevan. A recent LA times article about the Iranian Jewish community mentioned one of the leaders in So.Cal: his last name was Haroutunian! Where do you think he got that name from?

 

So instead of preaching to me about my information sources, get your history straight!

 

As for me being anti-Hayastansi, I am sick of the reverse that I get, like you guys are the only true Armenians, and yet you live here instead of Hayastan. Armenians have thrived in Iran,Lebanon,Syria etc. before there was an independent Armenia, we don't need you to exist! Also it is a fact that the majority of the gang members who are dragging the reputation of Armenians down the gutter are from Hayastan. How easy it is to sing about Hayastan when you are living the in the US,I simply then say, if Hayastan is what you guys want shaat lav, inchu het chenk etum? Otanav chuka vor kezi garogha thani Yerevan?

[Guest]

Steve, man you make me laugh.

 

First let me start explaining you why there are Iranian Jews with Armenian last names. There are many of them. One of my Jewish friends whose last name was Moradian, told me that during the Iranian revolution in early 1900's Iranian Jews were persecuted and they took last names of Armenians, a reputable minority in Iran, in order to escape persecution. It's the same thing when you meet Armenians in Moscow with last names Oganov or Chilingarov. Or Armenians from Istambul with last names Ohan oghli.

 

In regards to Anglo Saxon majority, I'd really recommend you visit the Department of Labor and Statistics website and you will see the racial and ethnic distribution in the United States. Just because Anglo Saxons are minority in a few regions that doesn't make them less dominant. Living in Armenia for many years, I can assure you that there are significantly less Jews (a few dozen) in Yerevan, than in Tbilisi or Baku.

 

As for Hayastantsi being in gang members, being an educated guy you should know that a few rotten apples don't make the basket rotten.

You are right that there was a thriving Armenian community in the middle east, but as soon as the periah state of Israel started it's expansionist policies the economy slowed down and these communities immigrated to the United States.

 

As for me still living in the United States. I do business here, which helps your country and my fatherland. FYI I am still an Armenian citizen, and don't except US citizenship even though it creates major hassles in the course of my business. Your country does everything to bring enterpreneurs like me here, so don't start your nativism. Read the legistalture that's being past in Washington. They are increasing number of business visas every year.

[Guest]

Alpha,

 

Check out the Book Armenia:Cradle of Civilization. In it, it mentions Jews living in Armenia since antiquity.

 

"To populate the new city(Tigranokerta), Tigranes encouraged large numbers of JEWS(emphasis mine) to migrate there" page 133

 

"Jews were numerous in Armenia and Parthia" page 150 Referring to the reign of TiridatesI

 

"The Armenian urban class had been built up over the centuries by the deliberate encouragement of settlers from Syria,Asia Minor and Mesopotamia, and particularly, of JEWS(emphasis mine)who took refuge in Armenia following the destruction of Jerusalem by the Emperor Titus." page 162

 

Want more? I can certainly give it to you. Also, yes right now "Whites" are still a majority in the U.S but all forecasts show they will be a minority in the near future.

 

As for the gangs, it is more than a few rotten apples, it is a growing problem thanks to the Hayastansis.

 

As for you working in the US, good for you, I have no problem with that. You certainly aren't one of the many Hayastansis that come here to get on welfare and enjoy other benefits of this country while crying about their Yerevan. Don't even tell me that they don't because I have a relative that works for Social services and can vouch for the huge number of Russians,Ukrainians and Hayastansis that go on the dole.

 

I know I have probably angered many on this forum, tough! You Hayastansis think you are it, you "ain't!" The last time I checked this was called "Hye Forum" not "Hayastan Forum."

[Guest]

Please, stop bashing my fellow hayastanci people!!!!!!

They are not that bad!!!!!They had a hard time, you have to admit that!

i think it was Sulamita who said that Armenians are disunited!She was so right!!!

And it's not just "axpar" or "hayastanci" thing! It's a whole Armenian problem!

This is a "HYE" forum!We are all Armenians!!!

Blood is thicker than water!OK?

 

on the Jews thing...

I think Jews are "all right" in any ways and nobody will change my opinion.

 

Steve,

Actually Armenians have Jewish ancestors.

Alexander the Macidonian moved about 20,000 Jews to ancient Armenia and they mixed with Armenians!

That's probably why There aren't many Jews in Armenia, because they are afraid to lose their identity!There is noone to compete with!And Jews are afraid to mix.

 

I think it's a shame for an Armenian to be anti any nation( except of turks, sorry )

A nation that was opressed by Nazi propaganda can't be an opresser itself.It is a shame. Don't go against your history.I think that Israelits are the closest nation to us in many ways(don't kill me!!)

And Steve, you just can't hate Russians, because you don't know them at all!

 

Nvard.

[Guest]

The closest thing we have to Jews in Armenia are Vanetsi Armenians.

[Guest]

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[Guest]

Barev Nvard! Bravo akhchik, you have a way of calming me down with your sensible posts. Thanks! By the way, I am sorry for the anti-Hayastansi remarks, I guess I must examine my own prejudices! Anyway I think this topic has exhausted itself and deviated, as usual!

[Guest]

Steve, before we close the topic let me make the last remark. You rightfully brought the example of populating Tigranakerta with Jews by Tigran the Great. But did you know that when Lucullus surrounded the city in 66 B.C. Jews were the ones that handed the keys of the city to the Roman general. So in a way they have some responsibility for the decline of Armenian Empire.

 

As for Hayastantsi crying out about Yerevan, well we love our city you can't blame us for that. Plus we, Hayastantsis, don't follow the slogan, "In Rome act like Romans do". We have our distinct values, and don't intend to give them up. Most likely we will cause the surrounding adopt our values, than us giving them up.

Two Armenians in any part of the world get together and create their own little Armenia. That's what carried this small in numbers, but big in heart people, that are called Armenians.

 

Also, gangs are not an Armenian problem. It's a Los Angeles problem. Drive by South Central, around USC, and you will see how widespread is this problem. So don't blame us for that.

 

Lastly, I respect the fact that you acknoledged the fact that your prejudices go beyond the line. This forum is for discussion, which shouldn't get offenisive.

[Guest]

Well, well, well.

 

Gentlemen, I must admit I enjoyed your verbal jousting (sly smile) )..It's so heart- warming to see knowledgeable and intelligent armenian men discuss a socio-political issue. It reminds me a little of our old and very armenian tradition where men sit around talking about issues and women simply stay out.

 

So I think I'll bow out and give you, as men, the exclusive rights to this discussion )

 

Gayane