America-Hye Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 What makes one think that the Genocide ended years ago:? The Turkish government continues policies of cultural genocide to this day, to finish the job. This is also conducted against Kurds, Assyrians, etc. On the other hand, the Turkish governemet is putting millions of dollars into opposition research to obfuscate the facts of the Genocide. Think tanks, if you will, to thoroughly study Armenian life today so as to find angles to curtail recognition of the Genocide. They KNOW that this is not solely about their dishonor. The massive funds utilized for this campaign are for insurance. They are crooks who have stolen the wealth of others and must conduct such a campaign lest they be required to return their loot to the families of those from whom they conducted this massive larceny. This is what lies behind the Turkish frenzy. Diplomatic machinations of a nation that is desperately trying to hang on to its ebbing influence in the West. Playing every game in the gamebook, by pitting the power of Jewish organizations against the Armenians and others. Playing the Israeli interests in one part of the region to improve their leverage in another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 (edited) There has been enormous criticism about the Diaspora’s approach to AG issues however I have not yet read anyone presenting alternative approach-mainly correct solutions instead of finding mere defects with the present. You have ideas about an alternative approach other then the present then please do share. Edited October 3, 2003 by Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Armat, you are right. There are lots of critics on the issue. The problem is, our problem is huge. It is so easy to state this fact, and so difficult to find a solution. Hence lots of critics and nobody to actually solve the problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 The first step to a solution is the unshackeling of the Armenian psyche. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 The first step to a solution is the unshackeling of the Armenian psyche. and what is it that's going to take to achieve that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 Edward, It boils down to psychology. When you have a nation that has been terrorized throughout recent history, it creates a mind warp in the collective psyche. I have a cousin who is a world-renown psychologist. I leave this task to people like him, as I do not have training in this field. I do know that there should be more freedom of beliefs tolerated in the Armenian community and a greater acceptance of those who have chosen to intermarry or lead alternative lifestyles. Amsterdam, in the 17th century became a world leader in trade because of it's open tolerant attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 3, 2003 Report Share Posted October 3, 2003 (edited) I do know that there should be more freedom of beliefs tolerated in the Armenian community and a greater acceptance of those who have chosen to intermarry or lead alternative lifestyles. Amsterdam, in the 17th century became a world leader in trade because of it's open tolerant attitude.Tolerating alternative lifestyles or intermarriages has no real relationship to the issues of AG. Realistically there is probably less then two percent of Armenians(excluding intermarriages) in Diaspora lead an alternative lifestyle and even if there were fully excepted in “Armenian collective psyche” what difference if any that can make on AG. It is interesting how you squeeze that in on every opportunity. Edited October 3, 2003 by Armat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Armat, Can you not see that we Armenians need to have solidarity vis-a-vis the Genocide. Do you realize that in 2000 we came very close to getting a resolution passed in the US Congress? This occured BECAUSE all Armenian organizations, despite their political or religious stripe worked in UNISON. Armenians NEED to gather all the assistance they can from whatever source it comes. My relatives married to Jews, Italians, WASPS are no less fervent in their support of Genocide recognition as are full blooded Armenians. My homosexual cousin and his Italian partner are no less supporters of Genocide recognition as the most traditional Armenian family members. My ex-wife and I, both bisexuals, are just as fervently for Genocide recognition as the Armenian country club set or the newly arrived Armenian from overseas in Glendale. Do you not think that Chastity Bono and her girlfriend Stasia Kardashian, both Armenian, will be detrimental to the Armenian Cause? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 ...My ex-wife and I, both bisexuals... Tell me the truth, did she bring some of her female friends for you to enjoy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 A-H - not to poke fun at the seriousness of this issue - and of your (serious) points - but I have to admit - you really crack me up. I can see it now - a soap opera with a theme of the (rich) Armenian (-American) alternate lifestyle (& such)...based on your life...& I wonder if somehow we can find parts for those Armenian guys from taxicab confessions...? LOL - I think we might have a big hit on our hands...(amd i think we could write a much more entertaaining/engaging story then that which is being jointly composed on the "our story" thread...sorry guys - but its really pretty lame...OK certainly entertaining at a certain level...but still lame... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 but its really pretty lame...OK certainly entertaining at a certain level...but still lame... Hey Thoth, what do you expect from lame writers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Azat, Do you mean the slinky blonde who was married to the Greek billionaire? No she wouldn't share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Thoth, My life would have all the elements of a best-seller book (which I am working on) and a blockbuster movie, the aristocratic Armenian Bolsetzi/Western Armenia past, the dalliances with the daughter of a shoe company tycoon, the dalliances with the grandson of a food company magnate, the marriage into a prominent Armenian Republican family, etc. etc. Fiction would never compare to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Armat, Can you not see that we Armenians need to have solidarity vis-a-vis the Genocide. Do you realize that in 2000 we came very close to getting a resolution passed in the US Congress? This occured BECAUSE all Armenian organizations, despite their political or religious stripe worked in UNISON. Armenians NEED to gather all the assistance they can from whatever source it comes. My relatives married to Jews, Italians, WASPS are no less fervent in their support of Genocide recognition as are full blooded Armenians. My homosexual cousin and his Italian partner are no less supporters of Genocide recognition as the most traditional Armenian family members. My ex-wife and I, both bisexuals, are just as fervently for Genocide recognition as the Armenian country club set or the newly arrived Armenian from overseas in Glendale. Do you not think that Chastity Bono and her girlfriend Stasia Kardashian, both Armenian, will be detrimental to the Armenian Cause? America-Hye, you left out the pedophiles and necrophiles in your family and surroundings. Give them credit for supporting the move, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Typical reaction is yours. Pedophiles AND necrophiles impose themselves upon these persons without their CONSENT, as children do not have the maturity to judge and the dead can not refuse. Gays and bisexuals, however have almost always given CONSENT. Stormy, why are you concerned with what others engage in that doesn't impact your well-being, and which does not inpinge upon the rights of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 This was all only an offhand comment in a serious thread, but Armat hijacked it to focus upon this other issue. It appears that this issue was more critical to Armat that the important issue of the Genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Typical reaction is yours. Pedophiles AND necrophiles impose themselves upon these persons without their CONSENT, as children do not have the maturity to judge and the dead can not refuse. Gays and bisexuals, however have almost always given CONSENT. Stormy, why are you concerned with what others engage in that doesn't impact your well-being, and which does not inpinge upon the rights of others. Which bring us back to the issue! "Others" but I rather say we and collective Armenian "psyche" unless you forgot the topic of the discation is Genocide, and bringing your or anybodies sexual (preferences) is hardly is a worth for another topic! I'm afraid we are talking about two deferent issues, or you seem to wonder away from main core essential of how and why.... Sadly, but you had no mention of AG and how acceptance or straggle might affect to OUR collective Armenian psyche! Think about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted October 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Closure of the AG will only come about when there is some mechanism in place for recognition and restitution. I find it ludicrous how US Congressonal committees are stacked with Turkish "experts." The US is ending billions of dollars to Turkey every year, and these Turks are brought here to address their manipulations of the facts. Let's see what happens with the placing of Turkish troops in Iraq. It is a lose/lose proposition for Turkey either way. The US is bending over backwards to lure the Turks into sending troops. Yet a very large proportion of the Turkish public is vehemently opposed to this. Can any government that is elected survive when it so blantantly goes against the wishes of the people? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 "Others" but I rather say we and collective Armenian "psyche" unless you forgot the topic of the discation is Genocide, and bringing your or anybodies sexual (preferences) is hardly is a worth for another topic! EXACTLY my point. I didn't pick pedophiles and what-not out of purpose. It's just that I am so sick of hearing about sects and sexual preferences (bi, homo, pedo, necro, necropedo, etc.) from you-know-who every time there is a chance that it is getting almost as obscene for me, although I am very liberal about gays. I am sick of having some individual's sexual preferences being forcefully shown to me day in and day out, in my face! I'd get as sick if this person talked about oppression and ridicule of vegetarians (which he does, as regards to acceptance within the Armenian community, but so far not at the levels of his sexuality)! "Because I'm a vegetarian my support for recognition of the AG has been utterly disregarded." WTF! How would they like it if I talked about my heterosexuality day in and day out and in fact organized hetero parades, "Proud to be hetero!"? And, no, I will not ignore the thread, I want to keep up with the topic.There are no bounds to the amount of grossness I can handle, but this insistivity is too much. For example, how many of you can stomach a proposal that, since necrophilia is about sex with a dead being without that dead being's consent, from now on, people donate their bodies after they're dead for that purpose, just like people sign papers that say their cadavres can be used for medical studies/purposes? That leaves you with pedophilia and animal abuse as the only morally damnable perversion. But that's something else. Certainly someone who feels a need to express their sexuality every day needs help. Perhaps they can quit being celibate after a 20-year break and put on double condoms if they're so afraid of diseases... ::hint hint:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Perhaps they can quit being celibate after a 20-year break and put on double condoms if they're so afraid of diseases... ::hint hint:: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 HagaragI generally agree with you that any segment of humanity in support of our cause is just fine by me. Unity is important on this issue however where I obviously disagree how you automatically attach, link sociology of lifestyles to AG, which I find it, distasteful as Stormy does as well. You will be surprised that lot of Armenians including myself are very tolerant of people with an alterative lifestyles however I won’t find it thrilling if bunch of lesbians and gays hugging each other in front of a Turkish consulates on April 24, with “I am a proud to be gay” t-shirts. I won’t comment further on this. I made it very clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taron Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Armenians who are working so hard to convince the West to recognise the Genocide are wasting their time because the only country that needs to recognise it its Turkey. The turks would never do that unless and only unless all Armenians would finally understand and most importantly implement Shahan Natalie's ideas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 4, 2003 Report Share Posted October 4, 2003 Armenians who are working so hard to convince the West to recognise the Genocide are wasting their time because the only country that needs to recognise it its Turkey. The turks would never do that unless and only unless all Armenians would finally understand and most importantly implement Shahan Natalie's ideas. Taron,Please do share Shahan Natalie's ideas!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hyebruin Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 this thread is really sad!! i clicked on genocide but didn't expect to find all this sexual subcatagories!!! come on, people! maybe there needs to be a section...other than "other" and perhaps it needs to be called "alternative" or "perversion" or....???? i'm not pro or against anything...let's just stay focused on the topics....there's plenty of room in the 'impressions of the day' section to post very general "off-topic" thoughts and ideas.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taron Posted October 5, 2003 Report Share Posted October 5, 2003 Taron,Please do share Shahan Natalie's ideas!!!!!!! To Armat (and to all other members).I would love to share Shahan Natalie's ideas with you and with any other fellow Armenian, but it would be better if you read his book - "Turks and Us" first(available at www.narek.com). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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