Armenians?armen?armenoids?

[Armat]

Just curious about the origins of words -Armenians, Armen even Armenoids. Shine your knowledge. Edited September 29, 2003 by Armat

[gamavor]

TB doesn't love to talk about them because they expose our Europeaness.

[Twilight Bark]

TB doesn't love to talk about them because they expose our Europeaness.

Cute.

[Twilight Bark]

Two points Gamavor.

 

1. There isn't much to talk about. Armens hardly exist in the historical record. Their historical existence is deduced by back-propagation from our Greek name and the name of the mythological king Armenak. That's it.

 

2. Our Europeanness should come from our cultural traits, and not from a relatively small (but certainly not negligible) "European" ancestry. Have you been showing much "Europeanness" lately?

[Teutonic Knight]

Just curious about the origins of words -Armenians, Armen even Armenoids. Shine your knowledge.

Armenoid does not equal Armenian.

Sure there are Armenoid "Armenians"...0.005% of all Armenians are probably Armenoid. There are also some Greeks, but very very few.

 

Armenoids are mostly Jewish, Iranian, Syrian, Kurdish etc.

It is said that the original Armenoid race were the Hittites.

[Teutonic Knight]

2. Our Europeanness should come from our cultural traits, and not from a relatively small (but certainly not negligible) "European" ancestry. Have you been showing much "Europeanness" lately?

You're saying Armenians are not European?

[Twilight Bark]

Just curious about the origins of words -Armenians, Armen even Armenoids. Shine your knowledge.

I will spare you the nerdy, long-winded definitions.

 

Armenian: What others call us, but we never called ourselves that.

 

Armen: A "theoretically constructed" tribe, whose historical existence was never directly recorded. From our Greek misnomer Armenoi, and the mythological king Armenak (most Haykazian king names actually stand for tribe names), it is reasonable to assume that they assimiliated into Haik.

 

Armenoid: Upon observing that Armenians represented a typical example of Near Eastern peoples, German anthropologists came up with the name indicating "Armenian-like". One of the noteworthy features of Armenoids is a broad skull (brachycephalic).

 

Not all Armenians are Armenoids, but it is probably true that most are (I don't have any statistics about it, nor do I care).

 

Having to talk about this arcane stuff in embarrassing enough. It is utterly irrelevant to anything practical, except to correct misinformation spread by people with an agenda that has nothing to do with the welfare of the Armenians (such as the ridiculuous notion that we are supposed to be good vikings, and if we are not, we should at least be viking-wannabes). Get real people!

 

This will be all for a while.

[Vayri7X]

These words are commonplace amongst fascist racialists ,and white supremacists who use debunked anthropological data to bolster their "Cause" to save a so-called " white race". No anthropologist uses these terms, either physical anthropologists or cultural anthropologist. Please visit the American Anthropological Association for more information.

 

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

 

One such author, Coon, utilized the Armenoid term quite frequently, and was solidly debunked by more scientific-minded anthropologists. The human genome project has revealed the constructedness of "race" , with most differences occuring within ethnic groups as opposed to without.

 

One of the recent manifestations of white supremacist ideology is seen in sites like " skadi.net", and an agenda to unite so-called " european races" to wipe-out a la turkish style " uncivilized races" or as they say " mud people". They also go under ideologies such as "legion europa".

 

Moreover, they have set up a recent agenda to recruit within European ethnic groups by passing off " Eurpean heritage festivals" in the U.S. as modes of fascist and racialist recruitment.

 

Fortunately, they meet quite a bit of resistance , such as that in New Jersey , and elsewhere.

 

 

They also engange in rewriting the history of ethnic groups to advance their agenda. This is in essence , *intellectual ethnocide* . Because they are anxious to claim moral authority , many have hijacked our history of genocide by claiming it as an example of " white genocide". They debate in their forums about us by posting pictures of Armenians as " specimens" when playing the guessing game of " is this person in this picture white?"

 

We are a guessing game for them, and they can;t make up their minds whehter to integrate us as " Meds" to be pawns in their fascist politics, or to wipe us out as " mud people".

 

They see that we have dwelled historically near the "Caucasus". As people of Western and European heritage, in the U.S. , they have been called by demographic census " Caucasians". The history of this is one besodden by ignorance, racial supremacy and bunk science- and a confused geographer and naturalist who thought that Georgian women were beautiful , and hence this was where Western/Eastern Europeans must originally come from , he thought( see Stephen J. Gould' s" Mismeasure of Man")

 

We Armenians should be more than wary of this agenda. After all, what about Krasnodar? What about Armenians and others who from south of Russia's borders are called "churky" and beaten by skinheads and other racialists?

 

Because we Armenians exist in a world with a history of conquest and borders where the lines of East and West are seen as indelible ( instead of constructed to suit the powers that be, -consider the Balfour delcarations) , many have been confused as to where to put us. Are we "Eastern"? Are we "Western"?

 

Well, **WHO decided what was East and what was West? Is this something of *our* Armenian creation? I 'd say, that if we accept those boundaries ( which I think we should examine carefully , question and challenge) then we would be a "crossroads culture", and take our strength from that. Or challenge Orientalist ideas sucha s this altogether.

 

Beware of the innatist arguments, and debunked theories of racialists and fascists. We cannot allow for others to hijack our history from us, and engage in ethnocide.

[gamavor]

While I understand the post-Communist nationalism and its rational to certain degree, I don't understand the extremes that are taking place in the post- Soviet territory. I also, don't understand the victimization on the part of Armenians that want to portray themselves as victims of this phenomenon. Yes, I know many Russians are very ignorant people and they will treat as trash anyone who is not Russian. They call "Caucasians" , 'chorny', but we (Armenians) call them 'Soghy klugh' i.e Onion head, and also a number of derogatory epithets.

When I was in Armenia, during the Soviet times, I saw a Russian taxi driver severely beaten on the street, lying next to his 'Volga', despaired in blood and no one even made an effort to call the police or the ambulance. I asked my companion why he has been beaten, and the answer was 'Because he is Russian'.

 

As to the 'white genocide', well there is some truth in that. The east-west notion is so ridiculous, because in Europe (even the heartland) there are number of nations whose origin hardly can pass the test of being European.

[Vayri7X]

And what is the "test" for passing as European?

[THOTH]

Vayri7X

 

Nice comments here and in other threads...welcome to our forum - our Doc marten wearing Anthropologist....did you happen to attend U-PA by any chance?

[gamavor]

Whistling the Ode of Joy, I guess!

 

 

http://europa.eu.int/abc/symbols/anthem/index_en.htm

[Arpa]

And what is the "test" for passing as European?

First off, Vayri, a "wild" welcome to you.

Finally. Imagine that we have our very own bona fide anthropologist to complement the many "vayri"/wild/savage amateur ones here (most every forumer).

Maybe now we can get scholarly and logical answers.

To start here is some food for thought for you. As you can see below the idea is totally mine as I have never seen it advanced anywhere else, note the highlighted (bold) section.

 

The post below can be found in this link;

 

http://armenians.com/forum/index.php?showt...c=4257&hl=gharb

 

Originally posted by sen_vahan:

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

What is the origin of Erebuni/Erevan/Yerevan? Why do we write "erevan" and pronounce it "Yerevan"?

To be honest, I do not understand the second question... About the origin of Erevan. As you all know according to some studies Ereb= Erev (changing in language) , uni=van,ani (the same reason), and the meaning is "Tesnum em ayn, erevum e ayn".

 

Artashat , I guess, "many valleys"= shat arter.

 

Harut partially answered this. I didn't know the exact answere either until I looked it up.

Of course we know it is named for Artashes, i.e. the city of Artashes.

As to the other endings of towns and villages , "-shen" is easy, it means "built" as "shinel", to build. "-pat" or "-pati" is the same as "shen". To make it short, without getting deep into the etymology (Pahlavi, Persian and beyond) we use the word to mean ro "build" as well as in "pat" to mean "wall" and "patel" to build(a wall/building). As to the "-shat" ending, we already know that "shat" means plenty in Armenian. It seems to point to the phlv. "shata" to mean "joy/happiness". The source mentions that this is/was common in naming towns probably to mean the "joy of (Artashes)".

 

As to my question "why we write "Erevan and pronounce "yerevan"...

It is not clear when we started to pronounce the fifth letter of the AybBenGim as "ye/yech". It was originally fashioned to correspond with the Greek letter Epsilon and pronounced as such. I wonder if Russian had to do anything with it as they write Eltsin and pronounce it Yeltsin etc.

As to the origin of Erevan, all silly stories as "to appear" aside, we know that it derives from Erebuni (interchange of b to v is quite common, consider Bahram and Vahram, Biaina to Van etc).

But what is the origin of Erebuni?

I have never seen this anywheree, it is totally my own observation. It is a well known fact that in the old Assyrian "asi" meant east, .i.e where the sun rises. This is attested in many other languages such as "east","est", "ost" etc. That is how Asia was named asi-Asia. In contrast to that "ereb" meant west in the Assyrian. This is still evident in some Semitic Languages as the Arabic word for west is "gharb".

During those days if "asi" meant east hence Asia then "ereb" would mean west, that is Europe. The land of Erebuni being the first land west of Asia was known as Ereb to mean west/Europe.

Does Erebuni actually mean Europe???!!!

[Arpa]

I just noticed that in one of the items at the above site I had said; "I don't know why Greece is called Hunastan and Yunanistan(by Turks and Arabs)". I have since learned that it is based on Ionia, Ionan, Yunan, Huyn etc.

[Elbayr]

Armenoids are about 25% of the population of Serbia, 75% population of western Armenians, 50% of Armenia, 15% in Greeks (not counting Dinars), 65% in Turks, and some in Syrians, Kurds, Sicilians, French, British and Irish. European does not mean anything. Armenoids were a race, like the Nordics. Jews are usually a Armenoid/Orientalid/Nordic race...but thats not really a race, and theyre not really a particular anything, most are nordic nowadays, or extreme orientalids, one or the other. Armenians from Armenia are not Europeans, not by a long shot, not phoenotypically.

 

Armen comes from the Armens of present day Macedonia, who spread in through Phyrgia (both sides of Bolis) into the land of the Urartus (a mediterannean people of indo european language), and conquered them. Later the ARMENS became myths as one of Jasons Arganauts was Armenos and created Armenia, which as much myth as Hayk and his destroying of the Babylonians (who never inhabited the plateu of Armenia, rather the southern most regions of the Armenian empire that did not become united with the other Armenians untill Dikrans Empire.

[gurgen]

Afaik the Greek and Persians called us Armenians first, when (it is told blabla....) Aram, Haik's son as you all know, kicked their ass. Thus they called his land Armenia, the land of Aram.

This is as far as my knowledge goes.