Sip Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 The level of mastery of a second language is limited by the the mastery of the first.English is my fourth language and I can VERY comfortably say it is the one which I have mastered the most (by HUGE margins) ... of course not counting any computer languages. So I guess I don't agree with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 ''That sounds like some of the Diasporan kids trying to speak Armenian to impress the Yerevantsis.'' (Teuton)=====As for Arpa, I might be wrong, but the "gor" is just added as the equivalent of the "ing" in English. Example: What are you saying? - Inch gessess kor? What say you? - Inch gessess? (also means "really?" or "what do you think about it?'') I don't think you read what I said about "kor" above. I may have used the wrong word but I did say that perhaps erroneously we use "kor" to impart a contiuous sense of tense as in "ing" . That may be why Sebastatsis use the "k@" at times in the beginning and at other times at the end like in "k@ berem" and "berem k@". But "gor/kor" sounds very ugly. We may consider adopting the Sebastia vernacular and use the "k@" at the end to make it sound like "I am bringing", i,e berum em, I am in the process since sometime "k@ berem" may sound like "I may/will bring.... sometime, maybe!" Inshallah! Ter@ kami! God willing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 English is my fourth language and I can VERY comfortably say it is the one which I have mastered the most (by HUGE margins) ... of course not counting any computer languages. So I guess I don't agree with that statement. Dilemmas, dilemmas and dle yaman.It may be time to define what we mean by first and second. Which comes first?Although I may have learned Armenian first at this point my Armenian has been so enriched borrowing/translating from English. So? Which is my first and second language? My English may be embellished at times borrowing, translating from Armenian as well but not as much as in the first scenario.How about we compromise and say mutually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 I don't think you read what I said about "kor" above. I may have used the wrong word but I did say that perhaps erroneously we use "kor" to impart a contiuous sense of tense as in "ing" . That may be why Sebastatsis use the "k@" at times in the beginning and at other times at the end like in "k@ berem" and "berem k@". But "gor/kor" sounds very ugly. We may consider adopting the Sebastia vernacular and use the "k@" at the end to make it sound like "I am bringing", i,e berum em, I am in the process since sometime "k@ berem" may sound like "I may/will bring.... sometime, maybe!" Inshallah! Ter@ kami! God willing!While I avoid using "gor" like the plague, and my kids have practically not heard of it (except of course when my "untamed" relatives speak to them ), I do think that the Armenian language needs a proper "present continuous" tense. I would actually use "gor" (or something, anything!) if it were declared a part of the "standard"; I don't care where it comes from. It is a flaw that would be nice to fix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 k'sem Gor\Kor = asum em Vor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 k'sem Gor\Kor = asum em VorDoesn't "asum em vor ..." mean "I say that ..." rather than "I am saying"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAS Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 Doesn't "asum em vor ..." mean "I say that ..." rather than "I am saying"? Yes qezi k'sem gor dun indzi ches haskna = Yes qez asum em, vor du indz ches haskanum... Mite yes skhalvum em? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teutonic Knight Posted October 1, 2003 Report Share Posted October 1, 2003 (edited) Yes qezi k'sem gor dun indzi ches haskna = Yes qez asum em, vor du indz ches haskanum... Mite yes skhalvum em?Kartsem te ayo. Es ayt ban@ aretsi vor shut veradarnam tun. However, in your sentence vor is just a truncated vorovhetev. Edited October 1, 2003 by Teutonic Knight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted December 14, 2004 Report Share Posted December 14, 2004 No offence to Lebanese Armenians but when I hear Lebanese Armenians (straight from Lebanon now living in Armenia) talking I want to just slap them. Aga this, aga that. It's ANNOYING. Like as it their spoiled attitudes aren't enough of a nuisance. Sorry guys if I've offended. I've got many Lebanese Armenians friends that don't talk that way, but the other extreme which I mentioned is BIG in numbers here in Armenia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gor-Gor Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 We've all got our annoying habits and idiosynchracies... Here in LA, some Armenians from Armenia speak in a certain manner piss me off too. So what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 (edited) astvats yekav u asets sireq irar! es mer hayernel irar sirelu hamar khelqner@ irants@ che, brnetsin u sksetsin "sirel" mimyants. akanj@t kanchi Mher Mkrtichyan......hey heeeyyyyyy~~~~~ Edited December 15, 2004 by Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Aga, tell me all about it! Are those the same Beirutsies who woild scold their children and exhort them to NOT SPEAK TURKISH while they themselves speak those very words in Turksih? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud EXPAT Posted December 15, 2004 Report Share Posted December 15, 2004 Aga, tell me all about it! Are those the same Beirutsies who woild scold their children and exhort them to NOT SPEAK TURKISH while they themselves speak those very words in Turksih? style_images/master/snapback.png Ya. Sad part is that a lot of Hayastancis here in Armenia use a lot of Turkish words as well, not realizing they are Turkish words. Not knowing is one thing, but when you talk "Armenian" and every other word/phrase that comes out of your mouth is "aga" or "wallah" or "seekeesh" or "mayr@ taghem" is damn annoying. Gor-Gor I agree with you that we all have annoying habits, but some more than others. It gives a bad rep to all Lebanese-Armenians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gellamelan Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 (edited) "a bad rep to lebanese armenians" hmmm I'd hate to sound as ignorant as you... trying to favor one dialect over the other. but as gorgor said... you think when I hear haiastantsees say "DA" for ayo... "KHI" or the infamous spelling "xi" for WHY ... or "ara" at every other word... that I don't get annoyed? you think the word "vapsheh" is pleasing to the ear when you don't know what it means yet an Armenian person talking to you is using it.... you think that's welcomed? with all the western Armenian speakers in this forum did anyone say " oh hey, no offense anyone but the way haiastantsees speak sux"...??? amot. but what can I say. uneducated people. who can't appreciate diversity. and Arpa... the "QUEEN" of the language forum... calling us self proclaimed linguists?? what's with the cockiness? NEWSFLASH: sometimes you're wrong. and I don't care about your resume of "Armenian schools". but seriously...your "25% story" was hillarious. you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. might as well not talk. (I would say shut up but that'd be rude) I can't believe I actually have to explain this but ...pure western Armenian is 100%. it's a DUH situation but I understand some people are slow. now this thread's author asked one question. is western Armenian the oldest. and you guys have butchered arevmdahyeren(western Armenian) instead of seeking an answer for his question. and the answer is yes. the Armenian language founded by Mesrob Mashdots in the beginning of the 5th century was what we today call western Armenian. it was used widely in Armenia way before Mashdots's days, but it was only a spoken language. Mashdots attached letters to it and it became official. Eastern Armenian however branched out of that hundreds of years later. lets cut the crap and ignorence and celebrate one of the richest languages in the world. it's ours. it's Armenian. Edited January 11, 2005 by gellamelan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harut Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 the Armenian language founded by Mesrob Mashdots in the beginning of the 5th century was what we today call western Armenian. style_images/master/snapback.png Mesrop Mashtots founded a language? and Grapar branched off from Western Armenian too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Mesrop Mashtots founded a language? and Grapar branched off from Western Armenian too? style_images/master/snapback.png Vapshe da ara. xi es zarmatsel? Sorry could not resist. it is the best sentence I could come up with with the provided words by gellamelan BTW: gellamelan welcome to HyeForum. And Apra is the King and not the queen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 11, 2005 Report Share Posted January 11, 2005 Gellamelan, I disgree with you on the whole "Hayastantsi" stuff. Everything we do is correct and officially Armenian because we live in Armenia. The Russian words we use come from the natural sythesis of Armenian language with other languages. So, learn to speak proper Armenian I agree with you on Arpa being the Queen of the forum though ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Vapshe da ara. xi es zarmatsel? == BTW: gellamelan welcome to HyeForum. And Apra is the King and not the queen style_images/master/snapback.png Thank you Azat. I may be the arqa but you certainly are the arqayits arqa. Go ahead boys and girls. Fire away, as long a you still have ammunition, that is, you still remember some Armenian words. Sooner than we know, we will ALL be speaking like this; Vallah aga, dzo chem haskanum xi k'ses gor. And a few years down we will be saying; Yo! Armen, que passa? Inch ka chka amigo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Arpa i have send you a PM - please answer ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Go ahead boys and girls. Fire away, as long a you still have ammunition, that is, you still remember some Armenian words. Sooner than we know, we will ALL be speaking like this; Vallah aga, dzo chem haskanum xi k'ses gor. And a few years down we will be saying; Yo! Armen, que passa? Inch ka chka amigo? style_images/master/snapback.png Arpa, you know .. when you fire you should naturally expect to get fired on. What's bad about speaking like that. It will be a modern Armenian language. I am all for the modern, progressive, cutting edge stuff. People who are against innovelties are retards, backword thinking, closeminded anti-reformists. And Armenian will sound realy good with the whole melodic Arabic and Spanish mixture. So don't act like a sissi Queen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Armen it is one thing for a language to evolve (which I am all for) and another to get it mutilated(Yo! Armen, que passa? Inch ka chka amigo?) which I am 100% against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Azat jan, but "evolved" and "mutilated" are descriptions that can be viewed as subjective. So, I think everything the Armenian language accepts is progressive and we should never impose and artificial limits and let the language exercise its freedom of choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 (edited) Azat jan, but "evolved" and "mutilated" are descriptions that can be viewed as subjective. So, I think everything the Armenian language accepts is progressive and we should never impose and artificial limits and let the language exercise its freedom of choice. style_images/master/snapback.png Emmm ... NO. We tend to adopt "everything" without much thought, thus if we allow, our language will become a garbage can. Come on, we need some resistance. Edited January 12, 2005 by Sulamita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Emmm ... NO. We tend to adopt "everything" without much thought, thus if we allow, our language will become a garbage can. Come on, we need some resistance. style_images/master/snapback.png Why do you call it a garbage can? I call it an evolved and free language. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 12, 2005 Report Share Posted January 12, 2005 Why do you call it a garbage can? I call it an evolved and free language. style_images/master/snapback.png I call it Armenian language-no more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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