vika182 Posted January 27, 2004 Report Share Posted January 27, 2004 Germany may have a lare turkish population but german people hate turks, my american friend went to germany and was appalled at how much they hate the turks there... im not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyRoss Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 I'm not sure that all germans do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayeforlife Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 Parev! why didn´t Sweden invite Armenia for the third genocide conference in Stockholm this Year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted January 28, 2004 Report Share Posted January 28, 2004 (edited) Parev!! Speaking as a citizen of sweden, I can inform you that armenia has sent as much has 21 representatives from Armenia. They are participating in the genocide conference in stockholm 2004. And We all hope that something good will come out of it. I would have also have liked that the armenians in sweden would have had arranged a demonstration outside the building where the conference was held against the hypocracy that is involved with covering up the armenian genocide wich they all, Sweden and the European contries, turkey, are responsible of! Edited April 12, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grig75 Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 I, kind of doubt that anything good wiill happen at the forum. Did you hear what Dick Cheney recently asked(required) UN to do in relation to Turkey? I think it is the most outrageous thing. One of the (non-written) rules for turkey to become a member of UN was acceptance of genocide. I think this is the time for big players, who usually defend their interests and small players loose. Unfortuaneatly, but the history has many facts like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted January 29, 2004 Report Share Posted January 29, 2004 (edited) instead of writing about genocides, like the armenian one. Swedish newspapers ( D N the most popular) wrote about TURKEY and their famous bath in todays news. Funny how it can turn out, isn't it? Edited February 1, 2004 by koko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Persian Friend Posted February 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 Hi Guys: I thought you might find the information interesting and useful: http://www.iranchamber.com/monuments/histo...urches_iran.php http://www.iranchamber.com/people/armenians_in_iran1.php All the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 I can feel the Aryanness in this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted February 22, 2004 Report Share Posted February 22, 2004 (edited) Still, Germans are lower than we are Edited February 22, 2004 by gurgen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Dear Friends, I am outright shocked on how racist, nazi (aryan-type), neo-nazi, anti-semite and anti-muslim your positions are on this board. Is this the right and proper way to discuss genocide???? One thing you are manifesting quite clear, though, you are not at all entitled to judge this matter. You're disqualifying yourself on a just cause. That's a pity. As a pontian greek I can only express my profound regret ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 I am outright shocked on how racist, nazi (aryan-type), neo-nazi, anti-semite and anti-muslim your positions are on this board. Who in specific are you referring to as "this board" can pretty much mean anything. A lot of people with a WIDE array of perspectives and beliefs come and go ... please do not mistake individual posts for what the "board" thinks as the board doesn't think anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Dear Sip, the people who wrote this kind of racist crap know very well ... You have certainly read this thread, so why should I bother to grapple with one or two of the people, when no one before me (as a newbie to this forum) expressed his disgust on such atrocities. This consequently means that nobody really cares if Hitler-type racethinking is professed. You have to care, though, you moderate this forum... Open racism is not a basis to start from ... when talking about GENOcide. the mortified rrrrrrreal pontian PS: I apologize for interfering into your affairs but I just wanted to urge you to keep clear of muddy "brown" waters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 rrrrrrreal pontian I just wonder why do you need to constently remind us that you are a pontian Greek? Are you afraid that we might forget it even when your own alias say so? There is more, why the need to say that you are a "real" pontian Greek? Are you afraid that we might consider you as a fake pontian Greek? Another thing, your "try to take it" regarding Trabzon is a déjà-vu my friend, as a Greek, how do you feel that Trabzon is yours, unless you're a Turk? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koko Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 I don't feel its right to attack our new guest pontian, he is just a little confused im sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Domino, just suppose i am a "recycled" or "turcisized" greek or something else. I have already undergone to much of hate from multiple sides that anything would surprise me from this point onwards. My emphasizing "the real pontian" is nothing else than painful irony (to put it mildly). thx koko for her sympathetic support In nowadays Turkey people like me, members of minorities (my case is too weird, though), we are straining to put things right for us. We need help and pressure from outside. Including your adorable efforts. But I hope you'll understand that we want to live here in "Turkey" as """"turkish""""" citizens with the utmost autonomy possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 (edited) In nowadays Turkey people like me, members of minorities (my case is too weird, though), we are straining to put things right for us. We need help and pressure from outside. Including your adorable efforts. But I hope you'll understand that we want to live here in "Turkey" as """"turkish""""" citizens with the utmost autonomy possible. OK understood - and good for you...but at the same time you must admit that the "system" in Turkey - and dominating belief - set forth from Ataturk - is that there are no minorities in Turkey - that this is a myth. Yes. Of course we know this to be unture - but this essentuially has been state policy (and more - a foundation for Turkey)...and minority expression has been extremely supressed. Perhaps it is somewhat emerging now - and I can see that from my encounters with Kurds from this last summer in Turkey as opposed to 12-13 years ago when the Kurds I spoke to were hushed about being Kurdish and were full of warnings etc...where now they were proud of their Kurdishness - talked openly of such and of their music etc - so yes things are certainly changing. But the reality - the reality of your history has been much different. And these were the type odf attitudes that doomed the Armenians - who were clearly not Turk. And still to this day Armenians are seen as an Island of not-Turk - in the midst of all this Turkishness. And like TwiBark has said there still exists this denial - denail of even such a thing as Armenian. etc etc So I contend that Turks must come to terms with the idea of Armenians and with their aborrant and unwarrented treatment of such - consequences of exactly the opposite of what you claim - which was the prevailing view (Ottoman idealized sensitivites aside..and admittedly not all bad - but not such a paradise either...certainly) - that this is required before your culture has indeed achieved this level of integration and openess - inclusiveness that you are trying to claim. Edited April 12, 2004 by THOTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 thx for your reply, thoth, i didn't think it was paradise in Ottoman Empire (too many sultans and/or vezirs had a hideous stance). But overall and compared to european middle age (even up to 1750 a.d.) the mere coexistance of that many "ethnic groups", "religions" and "tribes" etc. under turkish rule is to the credit of these "Barbarians". There's no denying this. You're absolutely right when you say things changed much to the worse at the onset of 19th century, though. later the emergance of the big nationalist ideas etc. Terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Domino, just suppose i am a "recycled" or "turcisized" greek or something else. I have already undergone to much of hate from multiple sides that anything would surprise me from this point onwards. My emphasizing "the real pontian" is nothing else than painful irony (to put it mildly). thx koko for her sympathetic support In nowadays Turkey people like me, members of minorities (my case is too weird, though), we are straining to put things right for us. We need help and pressure from outside. Including your adorable efforts. But I hope you'll understand that we want to live here in "Turkey" as """"turkish""""" citizens with the utmost autonomy possible. To what point have you been turkified, do you still speak Greek? Oh and, do you still live in Turkey? Since by now it is about 3-4 AM there, you should be asleep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gurgen Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 I am outright shocked on how racist, nazi (aryan-type), neo-nazi, anti-semite and anti-muslim your positions are on this board. Entry: joke Function: noun Definition: fun Synonyms: antic, bon mot, buffoonery, burlesque, caper, caprice, chestnut, clowning, dido, drollery, epigram, escapade, farce, frolic, gag, gambol, game, ha-ha, hoodwinking, horseplay, humor, jape, jest, lark, laugh, mischief, monkeyshine, mummery, one-liner, parody, payoff, play, pleasantry, prank, pun, put-on, quip, quirk, raillery, repartee, revel, rib, sally, saw, shenanigan, snow job, sport, spree, stunt, tomfoolery, trick, vagary, whimsy, wisecrack, witticism, yarn Concept: humor Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0) Copyright © 2004 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 gurgen, it might seem jocular to you. To me it isn't. I don't appreciate the way you answer my sincere demand. Domino. there is a considerable number of people who still speak the pontian dialect. Me, too, I am cherishing it. The funny but sad thing about our position is that we are more despised by our Greek (ethnic) brothers in Greece than even by the ultranationalist parties in Turkey. What nobody really accepts is that our ancestors embraced a different religion (be it by force or not, it was not always by force, though. Many times the people just tended to the new religion in order to benefit from favours or because they believed in the message etc. - Armenians and other people did the same, by the way). What I tell to people who vomit their hate right away without even listening I simply respond: "The process of christianization has been even more brutal. Or do you think that you've been Christians since the birth of mankind?" To answer your question, I am living in Turkey - most of the time. Right now I am in France, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Where exactly in this area are you from real Pontian? I recently have been through your region - and it is most beutiful. Visited Trabzon for the first time (and the Sumela Monestary) - we did a nice walking tour and visited some of the old churches of the town (though the St Sophia was closed that day - shame)...but I am especially impressed with Amasya..what an awesome town and what an awesome situation - breathtaking really! But the entire Black Sea region was beautiful and seemed a very nice place.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the real pontian Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 for gurgen and other patriots - a word by the great Ara Baliozian: "ON PATRIOTISM AND RELATED ATROCITIES Patriotism: love of one's country and respect for everyone else's right to love his own. Perverted patriotism places a plus sign on ourselves and a minus sign on the rest of mankind. Patriotism, nationalism, chauvinism, racism, fascism: among us these have become concepts with liquid barriers. Nothing comes easier to a chauvinist than to assume moral superiority.Every day I am reminded by a fraction of my readers (make it, commissars) that I don't deserve to live. Intolerance is the seed, massacre the tree." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 (edited) it might seem jocular to you. To me it isn't. Although I am quoting TRP's comment, this remark is meant as a cross-cultural, educational factoid for the rest. Sense of humor in Turkish society is not very "advanced". For example, American humor, which I think is often quite refined and subtle, goes a mile above their head, and is regarded as supremely unfunny. Just be warned. "The process of christianization has been even more brutal. Or do you think that you've been Christians since the birth of mankind?"Since you are lecturing in an Armenian forum, we need to put this in the Armenian perspective, and not the more generic Christian perspective, with which Armenians have almost nothing to do, and over which they have had absolutely no control. Armenians themselves were Christianized in a very brutal and culturally destructive way. To come within even a light-year of suggesting that Armenians Christianized others brutally ranks right up there with any "Nazi" remark you find (where are those remarks in this thread anyway?). Edited April 14, 2004 by Twilight Bark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twilight Bark Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 for gurgen and other patriots - a word by the great Ara Baliozian: "ON PATRIOTISM AND RELATED ATROCITIES Patriotism: love of one's country and respect for everyone else's right to love his own. Perverted patriotism places a plus sign on ourselves and a minus sign on the rest of mankind. Patriotism, nationalism, chauvinism, racism, fascism: among us these have become concepts with liquid barriers. Nothing comes easier to a chauvinist than to assume moral superiority.Every day I am reminded by a fraction of my readers (make it, commissars) that I don't deserve to live. Intolerance is the seed, massacre the tree." Since we are in the mood to sell refrigerators to the Innuit, may I offer you lessons in Turkish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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