Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 My impressions of my trip to Armenia…. Its been exactly a week since my return back to Sydney, I thought I should delay writing these impressions just to put them a little more in perspective. I stayed in Armenia 3.5 weeks. Political System If the political system can be described in one word it would be, feudalism. That’s right we have reverted back to feudalism, turned back the clock 500 years. The entire area of Armenia and all profitable big business has been divided up among the ‘lords’. Lords who have such colourful nick names as Grzo, Lfik Gago, Dodi Rubo, Nemetz Rubo. The biggest lord (ie. king) is Serj Sarksyan, minister of defence, he has the petrol trade monopolized. During the three weeks I was in Armenia, I did not see the petrol price change ONCE! Here it changes on a daily basis, sometimes with swings of up to 10%. 75% of the people ‘elected’ into parliament this year have nicknames, most don’t even have full high school education, but being deputies makes them free from criminal prosecution. When you have a person called GRZO as one of Armenia’s top five, in terms of power, you get the idea. And just to hammer the point, this event took place sometime last year: Dodi Rubo (his father was called ‘Dodd’ (idiot) in his village) and Lfik Gago (former truck loader) closed off the road going from Planni Glukh to Massiv (one of the main arterial Yerevan roads that is in good condition) at 2 in the morning (with their own personal security), and proceeded to race their sports cars there, without even notifying the police. The police discovered what was taking place, but of course, they cant tell the ‘lords’ to pack up and go home. So instead, they drove up and stood with the security to make the closure look official! – LOL. I know, its no laughing matter, but that’s what it has come to… btw. The police is probably THE MOST corrupt government organization in Armenia. Social Issues If the social system could be described in two words it would be, organized anarchy. The only law is money. ‘Connections’ are of small importance now, if you got enough money you can become the next Armenian president, or for that matter have whatever ‘seat’ your heart desires. Of course, once you have made the investment, you would want a return, and this can only be achieved my milking the system. The middle class in Armenia is very small. Probably, 85% are making ends meet, 10% represents the middle class (ie. living comfortably, nice car, house, business etc.), and 5% are the lords and the ultra rich, actually probably even less than 5%. My guesstimate is based on the cars I saw on the streets of Yerevan. The vast majority are run down old Soviet (Russian) models. The thing that struck me most was that there were many more S-class Mercs and 7-series BMWs, than C-class Mercs and 3-series BMWs. This is in stark contrast to Moscow (spend 3 days there) where 80% of the vehicles were either new Russian models or cheaper Jap and German cars (ie. middle class). The chief of the military police drives around in a H2 Hummer. A car that is double the price of the locally made Holden (GM) product our Prime Minister travels in. What gives me some heart is the fact, that it seems that the people have realized that communism isn’t going to come back, and they will have to dig themselves out of the hole and not rely on anyone else (diaspora), but without a responsible and functioning government this will never happen. The economic position of the people has also seemingly improved. My mum was in Yerevan in ’99, and she observed the many beggars roaming the streets. These seem to have largely disappeared, I was only approached 3 or 4 times the entire time. And 2 of the incidents took place outside Paplavok (most famous Yerevan café). Unfortunately, the exodus seems to continue. Many people still seek to leave Armenia, and some (pessimistic) estimates put the entire population of Armenia at 1 million! Admittedly we did travel around a fair bit and the lesser cities and villages did leave the impression of emptiness. I must also note, the sheer beauty of the landscape around Alaverdi and Dilijan. Unfortunately we didn’t have time to visit Jermuk, Megri and Artsakh like we had originally planned. Youth and Night Life The night life in Yerevan only exists for the tourist and the rich, or rather the rich making money off the tourist. The rest of the population certainly comes out, but only aimlessly strolling and sitting around. The women are (very) well dressed and have a sense of fashion, but many overdo things and look like tonatsar (Christmas tree). Oh, and I take back what I said about Armenian women being ugly, it seems they become ugly when they arrive on Australian shores (LOL). Men, in the heat of the summer wear (mostly) black (like it’s a funeral every day) with ridiculously shaped shoes, especially those pointy ones, they are a sight to see. I didn’t mind standing out with my white puma ‘walking’ shoes, jeans and brightly coloured shirts. Picking up was a doozer, as the locals long for something different. I really feel sorry for Armenian girls though, when a guy lashes on to them, there is no escape – LOL, Yerevantsi guys just cant take no for an answer. I shouldn’t brag though, I had very little time to mix with the youth, as most of the time was spend eating and drinking with family and friends. One day, I got drunk in the morning, at one place, then we set off to Stepanavan, we had something to eat and drink on the way, I passed out in the car. Woke up at Stepanavan and eating and drinking again before going to bed at 2am. We were visiting my dads cousins wifes cousins (LOL). In my entire life I have never experienced such genuine goodwill from complete strangers. These people, had never seen us before and are likely to never see us again, yet a lamb was cut-up almost immediately and a huge table set. Needless to say, the food was delicious. And that is really the essence of Armenia, its people. The majority of Yerevantsis have been corrupted by materialism and the need to show off, but travel to the provinces and villages and its almost a different world, you really need to ‘taste’ these people and their spirit, before God forbid the government (or rather, the circumstances) corrupts them also. Travelling to Armenia. Despite all the bad, traveling to Armenia is certainly recommended, in fact it is a MUST for every Armenian. Not only will you thoroughly enjoy it, you will be able to contribute a dime or two to the economy. Everything is cheap, except for 5 star accommodation of course. Save by leasing an apartment near the center, its much (MUCH) cheaper. The food is great, the roads and driving manners are not. In fact (I forgot to mention this earlier) the roads are torn up, as they are being rebuild, as is the Republican Square. But even the non-arterial roads that arnt being renovated are in a terrible condition. Traffic is hectic and the lack of direction from street signs, traffic islands and traffic lights (at some places all three lights are on, at others nothing or the lights are simply out of sight) doesn’t help. There are a couple of good night clubs, Astral and Atlantic, though I still cant get over the stupidity of having mirrors on the dance floor walls, must be the showing off thing (there is a culture of showing off in Yerevan). The music they play is less impressive, they change from one style to the next, from fast to slow and back again, trying to accommodate a wider audience, but probably turning everyone off.mmmm…..what else….it really helps to have friends, relatives in Armenia to show you around and save you from getting swindled a lot of the time, otherwise travel in a group, the more the merrier, as the saying goes. That’s about it I guess, it really has become the wild west and is quite an experience, hope you enjoyed reading as much as I enjoyed writing this, questions and comments here please… And just to cap off, a popular joke from Armenia: “There are two means by which the Armenian economy may be fixed. One is fantastic (ie. so unreal that it is fantastic) the other realistic. The fantastic way would be if the Armenian people united and everyone started working thereby fixing the economy. The realistic way, would be if aliens came and gave money” - LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 (edited) Encore Juggernaut! We need more! I mean pictures .... Edited August 4, 2003 by gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Encore Juggernaut! We need more! Theres too much stuff man! And I dont touch type, it took me over an hour just to get the above post. I'll answer questions and post highlights of my trip as I remmember them, but it'll take me ages to put everything into words... btw. they've built a 'waterworld' (jrashkhar) on the Massiv/Shrjanayin road, its pretty good too, but too packed. And they also got karting and paintball now, same prices as here though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 oh pictures........no pictures bro, our photo camera broke on the way, so we just had a video camera..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 ....you should see the palaces these 'lords' have built for themselves. On top of bluffs and high places behind 3 metre high walls and armed guards. Each with a personal church on their territory. While the rest of the city buildings, including such masterpieces as the Hamalir crumble into oblivion... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Juggy baby, good to see you here again. We missed you... I had many of the same feelings that you had when I went back for the first time after 20 years. It has been 2 years since my last trip but not a single week goes by that i do not think about arranging another trip. To me Armenia and it's people had a very different feeling and that feeling got stronger as time went by. You have to get us some pics. Did you not take any? Did you swim in Sevan? Eat ice cream in Tsaxgatsor? Karmraxayt? tell us more. let us live through your words for few more days. By the way very nice write up above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 . It has been 2 years since my last trip but not a single week goes by that i do not think about arranging another trip. Yes, Im surelly going for another trip if not 2005, then 2006, to get married if not for any other reason I think - LOL To me Armenia and it's people had a very different feeling and that feeling got stronger as time went by. What sort of feeling? You have to get us some pics. Did you not take any? Unfortunatelly none! Our camera broke in the baggage we only have video. Did you swim in Sevan? Unfortunatelly not, but we did go to Sevan, got there at 8pm on an unusually cold day (according to the locals). I wasnt brave enough to test the water when I was freezing in two shirts and a jumper! I have swum in the Sevan before though. Again a stark contrast between the large two storey houses for the rich and the 'domiks' for the poor, with Nemetz Rubos modern hotel on a bluff nearby. Eat ice cream in Tsaxgatsor? No, but we did visit tsaxkadzor and braved the tzopanoghi. Unfortunatelly, only the bottom one was working, but after walking an additional 30 mins up that hill (toward the snow patch covered Ali Beck peak) we were presented with a breathtaking view of the tsaxkadzor valley and Sevan in the distance. The air was really something outworldly and I managed to get my face burnt in a couple of hours, despite it being quite cold. I took off my shirt, and the gentle cool wind........i cant describe my feelings, but it was really something....probably the most memmorable part of our trip.....very VERY RECOMMENDED! Armenian icecream surprised me though, its very creamy and tasty, certainly on par if not better than our local premium Aussie stuff. Karmraxayt? hhehehe, this was another great trip, to Garni valley. There is a police post there that guards the Garni water supply (river). The police there are friends of my uncles (fathers cousin). We went to the police post there, got approx 20 karmraxayt from the fish farmers next door. And what a feast we had.........again something amazing....karmraxayt khorovatz and khashlama, best fish I have ever tasted (apart from well prepared Salmon, a couple of times) plus the cold Garni water and vodka, I really cant put it into words. btw chicken imported from the US is half the price of the local produce, but the local chicken has taste! And vodka is cheaper than Coca-Cola, thats right you heard me right. You can get 1/2Ltr of vodka for say 70C US. Thats the cheap stuff of course, you'll have to spend a little more to get something thats drinkable, not much more though, there is decent vodka for only a buck Some vodka brand names: "Luys Astgh" - this is the cheapo that makes people go nuts - LOL - hence the name I guess"Okno v evropu" - "window to europe" - LOL - this was approx US$5"Dar 21" - good budget vodka - LOL only US$1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOTH Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Welcome back Accel...sounds like a great trip...always the best when you can visit family/friends & party hard! (and see some stuff of course)...I'm still not sure I fully understand your excuse for failing to hook up with some nice (but fun!) Armenian gal...LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Juggy, tell us about the Metro. Is it still nice and clean. And Zvartnotz, and the youth palace, and restourants and shoping. Were there many tourists, do people still play chess and nardi in the parks and gardens? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted August 4, 2003 Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 Welcome back Accel...sounds like a great trip...always the best when you can visit family/friends & party hard! (and see some stuff of course)...I'm still not sure I fully understand your excuse for failing to hook up with some nice (but fun!) Armenian gal...LOL Because Armenian girls are chaste, and men should have sex (with sheep?) while women should not. Welcome back, Accel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 4, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 4, 2003 I'm still not sure I fully understand your excuse for failing to hook up with some nice (but fun!) Armenian gal...LOL Basically because there wasnt enough time . We hadnt seen our relatives/friends for over 10 years, so there was a lot of catching up and we did a fair bit of travelling also. , tell us about the Metro. I didnt get a chance to ride in the Metro, but people say its the 'same'. The many underground passes around Yerevan have become public toilets though, literally. And Zvartnotz Zvartnotz is falling apart . They were repairing the runway so all flights took place during the night. Its poorly lit (probably to save electricity) and is really ageing. The employees showed little professionalism, probably because they got their jobs through family/friends/money and have minimal or no qualifications, take ages to perform simple tasks. and the youth palace, ....mmm dont know what this is.... and restourants Some top restaurants in Yerevan, and they are inexpensive. The best one I dined in (including on the night of our departure, 2 hours before we were still eating and drinking here at 3am - LOL) was called 'Old Tbilisi' and served Georgian cusine. A full on dinner including khincali and drinks (tarkhoon lemonade ) etc. for six cost around US$50. A restaurant like that here would cost $50 each! There are other places as well for good Armenian cusine, but nothing is better than homemade stuff . Dont eat at the chinese restaurant, its terrible. and shoping. Didnt do any shopping. Went to Malatia market once....that was it. Only souvenir I got myself was a black Armenian special forces beret with the badge, thats it. Were there many tourists I couldnt tell, really. But I didnt see a single person that was dressed like me, even at the nightclubs. I suspect there is going to be an influx of youth now though, with the Navasatrian(?) games being held this month. do people still play chess and nardi in the parks and gardens? Yes, very much so. Didnt see much chess, but nardi is deffinetelly in . Outside my uncles place you could hear nardi from noon till 10pm (sun goes down) Because Armenian girls are chaste, and men should have sex (with sheep?) while women should not. mmm......Stormy, I know you really like me, but I dont need to be constantly reminded of my own wisdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Welcome back mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 traveling to Armenia is certainly recommended, in fact it is a MUST for every Armenian. Not only will you thoroughly enjoy it, you will be able to contribute a dime or two to the economy. Aman to that !!! Welcome back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Zvartnotz is falling apart . They were repairing the runway so all flights took place during the night. Its poorly lit (probably to save electricity) and is really ageing. The employees showed little professionalism, probably because they got their jobs through family/friends/money and have minimal or no qualifications, take ages to perform simple tasks. some of this jobs cost $3000 - to - $4000 up front haw much did it cost you to get by the Tamojni Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Barev sireli hyer. I heard many similar observations from different people who visited Armenia before. All true but instead of getting depressed about the situation I rather think about many individual Armenians who against the background of “feudalism” succeeded opening businesses such as wineries, textile production in Karabagh, Hotels which have western standards etc. In short there is always a fresh grass(hope) under the snow… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Welcome to HyeForum Armat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Armenia has made much progress in a short ten years. Things are slowly getting better. It can not become a European country overnight. The comparison between Greece and Armenia were startliing ten yeas ago. However, there was architecture in Yerevan that was beautiful and very European, for example some of the apartment buildings. Zvartnotz Airport was already a disaster zone ten years ago. Hopefully the tax problems of the Argentinian magnate will not stall the great changes to be wrought there. In a free country people can choose to emigrate. They can improve thier economic condition elsewhere and then have the means to help the homeland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 What-up Jug! Welcome back dude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Welcome back Thanks all....... some of this jobs cost $3000 - to - $4000 up front Yes, I am not at all surprised... haw much did it cost you to get by the Tamojni This was beyond absurd. At Zvartnotz, it is almost the equivalent of US$100 for every kilo above the allowed. They have made sure that the only way you could get extra weight on was by paying a bribe - LOL. We did have extra weight, 25kg more! Unloaded, and left it to be sent by ship, cheaper and less headache. We had 20kg extra going from Sydney, the Qantas registration officer told us to unload as much as we can, so we took out a couple of things (no more than 2-3 kgs) and put into hand luggage, the rest went through. Had to pay a US$30 bribe to get it through at Moscow though.......mother Russia wont let anyone pass without giving some salt. All true but instead of getting depressed about the situation I used to laugh when I heard such stories, thinking to myself: after all, how bad can it be? Go see for yourself, it really is depressing when a former university professor has to sell shemushka (sunflowerseed) to make ends meet........its pretty f*%@ing bad, and I dont see it getting better in the near future many individual Armenians who against the background of “feudalism” succeeded opening businesses such as wineries, textile production in Karabagh, Hotels which have western standards etc. The Feudals have all profitable big business underwraps. Yes, some medium/small businesses are doing well, but these are few and farbetween. Investment from the diaspora is mostly smallscale. There is some construction going on (apart from the street renovations), but there are many more abandoned, rotting and rusting factories than working ones. In short there is always a fresh grass(hope) under the snow… mmm.....the majority of yerevantsis I have spoken to have little hope, they just do what they have to do, put food on the table. Paradoxically, even without hope most want to stay, so I guess there is something to look forward to.... There is a saying in Armenia now...."The only thing a man can be ashamed of today is not providing for his family".....thats it. Armenia has made much progress in a short ten years. Things are slowly getting better. Well, the people would starve to death if things got much worse than '93. Otherwise we are a third world country, and we have a LONG way to go to reach standards of living achieved in the West. The peoples culture and way of thinking must change for there to be significant improvement... Hopefully the tax problems of the Argentinian magnate Aparently this 'Argentinian magnate' is not the real owner/buyer, who is apparently someone high in the government, but naturally he cant afford an airport on his 'salary' - LOL, hence the Argentine.....I dont know, wether its true or not, but in Armenia anything is possible, and I mean ANYTHING! - What-up Jug! Nothin much mate, getting back to my usualy routine of uni/work/party/recover/uni/work/party/recover/uni/work/party/recover/.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 uniWhat is Uni? just curious. Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 Are things really THAT bad there? If so, why are our American harousts shoring up a corrupt regime? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted August 5, 2003 Report Share Posted August 5, 2003 (edited) We all know that Armenia is poor and corrupt country, but show me a place where people love their politicians. People should stop complaining about the system and the politicians, because THEY are the system and they ELECT their politicians. Cheap bragging is often excuse for lack of "balls" to face the difficulties for which I equally blame the Diaspora too. Sending money over there is fine, but if these money work toward cementing the system that we all want to get rid of ....what should we do?Those that don't like the 'Lords' wouldn't mind to have their palaces with the armed guards and personal churches. Armenia needs completely new mentality based on development of sustainable society, where people can realize their dreams, have family comfort and enjoy life with dignity. I do not expect this to happen in the third millennium. And those "lagot" tamojni scum of the earth customs officers should be sent where they belong to - the prison. Edited August 5, 2003 by gamavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 What is Uni? university Are things really THAT bad there? If so, why are our American harousts shoring up a corrupt regime? Yes, things are pretty grim, nothing I have said is made up or exagerated.....things I have seen with my own eyes. And to answer the second part of the question, the regime is corrupt, as things are now we dont have a hope of having a goverment in place that wont be corrupt. Peoples way of thinking must change before anything else does IMO...... but show me a place where people love their politicians. After what I saw in Armenia, Im completelly in love with our (Aussie) politicians, in fact I think they should get a raise. After all, Grzos monthly income is more than our PMs (after-tax) yearly! - LOL. because THEY are the system and they ELECT their politicians Personally, I dont think I belong to that 'system'. And the current administration was elected into office by the dead and the absent.... but if these money work toward cementing the system that we all want to get rid of ....what should we do? Thats the dilema. A (large) percentage of every cent we send to our relatives or aid ends up in the 'lords' pockets because they have monopolised everything and set the prices as they please. Those that don't like the 'Lords' wouldn't mind to have their palaces with the armed guards and personal churches. Yes, every Hyeastantsi, but their lives are also not to envy. A few months ago four were killed as two 'groupirovkas' were at each others throats. On the subject of 'lords', I remmeberd something funny, will post later when I have time........ Armenia needs completely new mentality based on development of sustainable society, where people can realize their dreams, have family comfort and enjoy life with dignity. I do not expect this to happen in the third millennium. I agree with you about everything except the last sentence. Peoples mentality can and will change, it will not (or rather it CANT) remain like this forever because we as a nation will ceaze to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
America-Hye Posted August 6, 2003 Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 What a shame, since there was so much hope, despite all the travails of the blockadge and the losses in the Karabagh war ten years ago. Will it be said that the end of Bolshevism marked the beginning of the demise of the Armenian state? Why can't these leaders act civilized? Where the hell are the clergy, who are supposed to set the tone to ameliorate the excesses of the rich and powerful? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Accelerated Posted August 6, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2003 Where the hell are the clergy From what I heard, the current head of our Church bought his 'seat' and is some young 'samplyak' who should not be in the clergy, let alone at its head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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