One day...

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:

But the Azeris can point to massacres on the part of Armenians, these are well documented by the United Nations. SO whats the point of all of it?

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Steve,

If you don't realize that all those "documented massacres" were a form of self defense then you are fooling yourself. It is just like the statement Turks make "The Genocide of Turks by Armenians"... If it was not so sad, it would be funny.

In terms of economic relations - there is much more Iranian and Turkish imports in Armenia than there should be. It makes me puke to think that our people have to eat all that "shit" they produce and sell. Personally I don't buy any Turkish imports and urge everyone to do the same. And I don't respect the Armenian store owners who have Turkish imports on their shelves and are so damn proud of it - the hell with your Turkish loxma!!!

Yes, we should make economic ties with Georgia and rest of the former Soviet countries, etc. But to me, Azerbaijan and Turkey are off limits.

[Guest]

Dear Sulamita

 

I am so sorry, because from you replies on this site, you seem to be very objective, yet you spew out the usual Turk-bashing rhetoric of Armenians. Is killing babies who happen to be Azeri self-defense? I don't think so! I am not making them to be innocent angels, they are not, but there is enough guilt on both sides to go around. And in fact we just go around and around, just like the Serbs and Albanians, each side trying to prove the other side to be devils.

 

As for boycotting Turkish products, that is your right, but I personally enjoy Turkish music, and have no problem buying their products, just as I would want Turks to buy Armenian products.I am not the only Armenian who feels this way.Good for those Armenian stores that sell Turkish products, they are not blinded by the poison of extremists. I also did not care for the comment about Iranian products being sold in Armenia. Are Iranians now enemies of Armenia as well? THe last time I checked the two countries had excellent relations. By the way the original Turkish "simarik" is way better than the b-grade Armenian remake.

[Guest]

I agree with Steve. We shouldn't be extremists and ban everything Turkish. I like turkish music also.

Iranians... well... they're like brothers except they have adopted Islamic culture.

 

And by the way, Steve, you say "I sure am not going to go on the next plane to Yerevan to live". If every armenian tells that to himself or herself... OUR HASSANK? We talked about unity, here's a wonderful opportunity! Despite a poor country - we're not as poor as Bandgladesh, we have to go back to Armenia becasue there is no more major threat... our exile is pointless, we belong in HAYASTAN. I admire the Jewish people who have been able to rebuild a country because all the Jews united by coming back to Israel.

Your analysis may be based on actual condition in Armenia - being emptied but what if Armenia had 6 000 000 pop. ? I'm just asking.

[Guest]

You people are so weird!

at first you show your "total hatred" about armos & now you're talking about boycoting?????????????

are you confused about your ideas, or something??

well, take your time and find what you're goning to stick to.

by the way about iranians:

they are probably the closest nation to armos, if it wasn't about religion.

we shared the same pagan history and culture,names and ruling dynasties.

we fought together against Rome and we kicked the Roman butt!!!!!

it's religions that disunited us.

now we have a chance to get our old friendship back , so please be nice to the "parsikner"

[Guest]

Alright Nvard and Raffi I like you guys more and more. But Nvard, I love Armenians as much as I might seem critical of them. It is the classic case of " I am one so I can criticize them" but boy watch out when an odar (including my dad) criticizes them, I show no mercy! Yes the Barsiks are really our brothers but for their religion. And by the way here in Southern California there are many Persians who are converting to Evangelical Christianity! IN fact there are 15 Persian christian churches just here in Orange County alone. We were always treated very well by the Iranians, my family never felt any prejudice whatsover. In fact Persians tends to esteem "Armanis" very much.The present Islamic government supports Armenian's in their cause to get recognition for the Holocaust. In fact their was a large anti-Turkish government demonstration on April 24, with both Armenians and Persians demonstrating (Check the Iranmania.com website, I believe)

 

As for the Turks, I believe one day they will repent, we must pray for them. By the way have you heard of Taner Akcam? He is a Turkish professor who produced a documentary about the Genocide for Dutch TV. As you can imagine, he is blacklisted by his fascist government, but governments can change, look at South Africa. By the way the Turkey.com website has quite open discussions about the Genocide , with Armenians and Assyrians debating with Turks. I am shocked that it is even allowed, so who knows how many Turks it is causing to think about their governments evil past. We must also forgive the Azeris, as vicious as they have been, for better or worse Armenia is stuck with them as a neighbor. They aren't going to just go away and neither are we. By the way why is Nakhichevan a part of Azerbaijan? WHy not just do an exchange, Nakhichevan for Karabagh? And again, what's up with the sudden sympathy for the Kurds? From what my mom has told me they have been the true barbarians, though again I am sure there are decent ones as well. Lav kherik!

[Guest]

I do not have anything against Iranians and more power to the political leaders who will maintain the economic ties we have with them. But please, do not act as if they were our best buddies through history. We were massacred and droven from our lands by them also. In regards to Iranian products, Armenia is importing all the shi**y stuff they have, since they can't afford better. That is what frustrates me. And please lets not forget the lack of hygene that prevails in Islamic countries (don't bite my head off now).

[Guest]

OK.looks like someone hates me, ha?

it's geting hot.....

I'm not saying that the Iranians were "our best buddies" all the time!

i said that the religion separated us greatly

but their government is not the turkish-nazi-type one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Iranians had enough guts to regret and admit!!!

Greece is the other country we should think about.I heard something about the Armenia-Iran-Greece union.i hope it's true and i wish it the greatest progress!!!

[Guest]

Dear Sulamita

 

Like my odar dad says, everyone has driven someone off of their land at some point in history. But get over it! The Greeks who Armenians idolized have also done their share of atrocities to Armenians, during the Greek conquest of Armenia. Also relations between the Greeks and Armenians were not that hot during the Ottoman Empire. And did you know that Armenians and Greeks often lynched Jews in Constantinople especially during holy week? I read about that in a book called Constantinople:City of the World's Desire. By the way Armenia also had an empire, do you think they just nicely asked the conquered peoples do join them? I am sure Armenians have done their share of dirty deeds to other groups.

 

THe point about Moslems being unhygienic is highly racist. Iranians are probably cleaner than most people I know. Have you traveled to "Christian" Spain and Greece? The people stink! They don't bath or wash their hands after using the restroom. I don't know where you are getting your information about Iranians, but I take offense, because I am in many ways more Iranian than Armenian. It is my birthplace, and I will always defend it! Iran zamine man!

[Guest]

PS Iran Zamine man means Iran my land!

 

By the way, Iranian candies and cookies are the best in the world!

[Guest]

I agree with you Steve... I like what you say.

But only one thing : "I am in many ways more Iranian than Armenian", what ???

Sorry AGHPER JAN but it's only you're country of birth! It's your right to defend the Iranians, I defend them also... I like them but you are Armenian more than anything else. This is exactly why we are disunited, get it?

With respect,

Raffi

[Guest]

Yes Raffi I hear where you are coming from. Maybe I sound more loyal to Iran than Armenia, but I can't help it. That is the dilemma of the Armenians from the diaspora. We often love our countries of birth. I cry everytime I see Teheran on the news. It is not the most beautiful city in the world, in fact it is quite ugly, but it is home. I cry when I remember the Iranian kids I used to play with, the Moslems friends of my parents who brought us pastries and gifts on easter and Christmas. I don't think I could go back there to live now, i am too Americanized now, I need my Starbucks coffee! But Iran is my place of birth and I love it. Armenia is an alien place to me, it just does not evoke the same sentiment. Its very difficult for Hayastantsis to understand this allegiance we akhpars ( a new word I learned!) have.

[Guest]

All my life I will be in some way or another attached to Canada, that's for sure. I understand your attachement but don't forget your true land.

You say you're americanized and I try not to be too much american because if I feel too confortable here never will I want to go in Armenia and help my people.

I am curious. Do you feel more Armenian or American (Irish I think) ?

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Nvard:
OK.looks like someone hates me, ha?
it's geting hot.....
I'm not saying that the Iranians were "our best buddies" all the time!
i said that the religion separated us greatly
but their government is not the turkish-nazi-type one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Iranians had enough guts to regret and admit!!!
Greece is the other country we should think about.I heard something about the Armenia-Iran-Greece union.i hope it's true and i wish it the greatest progress!!!

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Nvard

Please!!! I do not hate anybody, let alone a nice girl like you I really admire you all for being concerned of all issues concerning our race and country - despite all the differences we may have in our oppinions.

Regarding the Iran-Greece-Armenia Union - more power to it. I am for all kinds of joint ventures as long as Armenia benefits somehow.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Sulamita

He point about Moslems being unhygienic is highly racist. Iranians are probably cleaner than most people I know.

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Steve,

I have not been to Iran myself but I have associated with Iranians and that is the oppinion I have formed. Also, my dad's side is from Iran (my dad left Iran when he was 9) and from stories told on their part, that is the overall feeling I got. For example, they have this habit of eating from the same serving dish - that is not hygenic at all.

About the Turks being dirty, my direct source was this Turkish-Armenian friend I have. According to him, Turkish girls smell really bad and do not really bathe too much.

[Guest]

Dear Sulamita

 

I suppose there are no Armenians that smell?I could name several, including some of my relatives who refuse to use deodorant. ALso eating from the same plate is not a Persian custom, that is purely Arab. My dad was stationed in Turkey for three years and claims that Turks are very clean, more so than the Italians and Spaniards, who he also lived amongst. So who is right? I am sure there are filthy people in Turkey too, but why generalize? I feel that I was quite wrong about you, you seemed to be very objective at first, but I see that you are a typical ethnocentric Armenian who hurls cheap insults at other ethnic, particularly moslem groups.

[Guest]

Dear Raffi

 

In answer to your question which do I feel most like ,Armenian or American , I have to say both, but in different ways. Add to that the Iranian element and I must say I am tri-cultural. It just depends on the situation. I am on the surface very American. I look "American" (whatever that means). I have an American accent in English. I get angry when people bash the U.S when the U.S. is always the first to come to the aid of nations in need. I really don't feel Irish at all, as my dad is fourth generation, and also has a Chickasaw Indian great grandfather(wow,all my ancestors have been oppressed!)

 

On the other hand I am very Iranian. I cry when I see Iran on tv. I love the Iranian people, they truly have a heart of gold. I must confess that I prefer Iranian music over Armenian, very much so! No one makes rice like the Persians, they have made it an artform, this is acknowledged by American chefs like Emmerill Legaspe. Sorry Hayrenik but the pilaf just doesn't cut it! I also love the tolerance that Iran has had of all groups, even in the present Islamic regime. There just has not been the oppression that is seen in other Middle Eastern countries of religious minorities. For crying out loud, Armenians and Jews are allowed to make wine for religious purposes, this is a SHaria law country!

But scratch the core of me and I am Armenian. It is who I am. I just can't pinpoint what it is. I love the sincerity of most Armenians, which contrast with the superficiality that Iranians can have. Armenians are more to the point and upfront than Iranians who rely on a system of etiquette of "tarof" which can be hypocritical at times.

[Guest]

Thanks for your reply Steve. I see you are quite a mix there. I think your one of these "half-Armenian" who would love to get married with an Armenian woman, am I right? Well... I feel this way.

I love Iranians also even if I don't know too many I have a very good general impression.

Don't jump on Sulamita like this. I'd rather have an ethnocentric brother than one who doesn't care at all about his culture!

Well people, I hope we all learn from eachother.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Sulamita

I suppose there are no Armenians that smell?I could name several, including some of my relatives who refuse to use deodorant. ALso eating from the same plate is not a Persian custom, that is purely Arab. My dad was stationed in Turkey for three years and claims that Turks are very clean, more so than the Italians and Spaniards, who he also lived amongst. So who is right?

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Different people, different experiences and different oppinons.

[/b]I feel that I was quite wrong about you, you seemed to be very objective at first, but I see that you are a typical ethnocentric Armenian who hurls cheap insults at other ethnic, particularly moslem groups. [/b]

Cool down now There is nothing wrong with being ethnocentric. And I am not hurling cheap insults, as I said - stating an oppinion. No more comments.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Sulamita

I suppose there are no Armenians that smell?I could name several, including some of my relatives who refuse to use deodorant. ALso eating from the same plate is not a Persian custom, that is purely Arab. My dad was stationed in Turkey for three years and claims that Turks are very clean, more so than the Italians and Spaniards, who he also lived amongst. So who is right?

---

Different people, different experiences and different oppinons.

[/b]I feel that I was quite wrong about you, you seemed to be very objective at first, but I see that you are a typical ethnocentric Armenian who hurls cheap insults at other ethnic, particularly moslem groups. [/b]

Cool down now There is nothing wrong with being ethnocentric. And I am not hurling cheap insults, as I said - stating an oppinion. No more comments.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Sulamita

I suppose there are no Armenians that smell?I could name several, including some of my relatives who refuse to use deodorant. ALso eating from the same plate is not a Persian custom, that is purely Arab. My dad was stationed in Turkey for three years and claims that Turks are very clean, more so than the Italians and Spaniards, who he also lived amongst. So who is right?

---

Different people, different experiences and different oppinons.

I feel that I was quite wrong about you, you seemed to be very objective at first, but I see that you are a typical ethnocentric Armenian who hurls cheap insults at other ethnic, particularly moslem groups.

Cool down now There is nothing wrong with being ethnocentric. And I am not hurling cheap insults, as I said - stating an oppinion. No more comments.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by farsisteve@aol.com:
Dear Sulamita

I suppose there are no Armenians that smell?I could name several, including some of my relatives who refuse to use deodorant. ALso eating from the same plate is not a Persian custom, that is purely Arab. My dad was stationed in Turkey for three years and claims that Turks are very clean, more so than the Italians and Spaniards, who he also lived amongst. So who is right? I feel that I was quite wrong about you, you seemed to be very objective at first, but I see that you are a typical ethnocentric Armenian who hurls cheap insults at other ethnic, particularly moslem groups.

---

Different people, different experiences and different oppinons.

Cool down now There is nothing wrong with being ethnocentric. And I am not hurling cheap insults, as I said - stating an oppinion. No more comments.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Arman D.:

Originally posted by Nvard:
Do you think that some day Armenia will get all the lands &  Mt. Ararat back???
What should we do for that???
Is it possible???
thanks.

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Sireli Hayer, es el desnum em mi nor apocalypse me vor Hayerin klughnerit kalis e.
Menk bedk e mishd badrasd ellank, amen vargyan amen or. Military readiness and preparation are sometimes enough to prevent war. But , if we are pushed, we have to respond accordingly. Yes Turkey has a strong army, but if that was all, Armenia would be in no danger whatsoever. It's the Turkish Air Force, that is very dangerous. They have like 150 F-16s and they've all been trained by Jewish pilots since they have a military treaty. In the 21st century air power will rule , even more so than it did in the 20th century. There will be no more footsoldiers, isg apsos menk Sovedagan modelits, miayn tsamakayin ujer enk havakum yev zinvor enk badrasdum. Tankere vor Sovedagan modelin mech etkan hzor ein, air forci goghmits ge vochnchatsvin arachin orits. Hayasdane bedk uni air force, hzor air force vonts vor Israeli air force ashkhari amena lavn e. Hes a Israeli uje, nrants F-15 yev F-16nere. Mer MiG-29 lav en, baits pavakan chen. Im getting my pilots license this summer and we need military pilots in Armenia. Not land forces and land armies like the Russians. We need air force, like the West.

Did you know that an Armenian named Mikoyan designed the first Migs? Its like the national plane. Second the Mig 29 is one of two planes on earth capable of performing the cobra which is the most advanced evasive manuever in existence.

[Guest]

Dear Dro,

 

I'm glad there's someone thinking like you! My compliments!

 

Let me, however, partially disagree with some of your points.

Of course, Armenia does have some airforce, but it's just symbolic. Why is that? Because any jet taking off from any airfield within the territory of Armenia will find itself in airspace of a neighboring country in no time! Unfortunately we are only 30,000 sq. km. Well, I do agree with you, that wars now are won in air. For that reason, I think we'd better concentrate on air defense and create a non-penetrable "wall" in the skies. This will force potential invaders think at least twice before sending their airforce to Armenia. That is a more viable and less costly option.

 

Yes, air is crucial - it does not hurt to have good ground force, though. The principle of Armenian army is totally different from that of Russian. Our army is organized in small, mobile brigades, unlike Russians, who have huge divisions, fit to their steppes. Ideally, our troops should be able to apply hit-and-run tactics causing enormous losses to the enemy, because facing their numerically superior forces in traditional way will be disastrous. The principle is good, but anything else... Man, I don't wanna talk about sad things...

Right now, what makes us relatively safe on western border, is the Russian troops stationed in Armenia. Doesn't mean though, we should feel totally safe and forget about our own forces.

 

I wish you good luck in getting your pilot license. For the few jets out there, we still need professional and devout pilots! Thank you.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Ahura-Mazda (edited August 07, 2000).]

[Guest]

I think that at present the priority is to keep the Russian base, because if we ask them to go, they'll take all those Mig-s and S-300-s with them and we'll be left alone to fight a Gevorg Chaush kinda fedayi war against a NATO member! It will be similar to the Chechnya war.

[Guest]

I think the thought of one day returning the Mt. Ararat could be qualified as a nice dream. I also would like to join those sharing this dream.

 

However, I think the conversations about getting it back either by persuading Turks or by blood are more than naive.

 

However, I think that a genuine liberalization of the Turkish politico-economical landscape may provide a framework for legal ownership of the Mt. Ararat and the surrounding districts by Armenian enterprises and individuals.

 

In this context, acceptance of Turkey into the structures of the European Union may provide an opening for future opportunities.