IP

[Harut]

i need help people.

can you people enlighten me what IP Address means? and what is its purpose?

 

i thought it is just for servers but everybody has it?

 

can you help me here, please?

 

thank you

[Sip]

IP (Internet Protocol) address is what identifies any device connected in a network like the Internet which is based on TCP/IP.

 

Anything sent over the Internet is transmitted as "packets". Packets have destination IP addresses and the Internet infrastructure takes care of delivering them to the right place based on this address.

 

An IP address looks like 4 groups of numbers like 192.168.248.1 ... it would be very hard to try to connect to different places using just their IP address so the founding fathers came up with this thing called DNS (Domain Name Service).

 

DNS is a service that translates names to IP addresses. For example, if you type www.ucla.edu, DNS goes and looks up in the database and returns 169.232.33.130 (corresponding to ucla.edu). So if you type http://169.232.33.130 in your browser, you will end up at the UCLA website.

 

There is a lot more about TCP/IP so ask if you want to know more

 

{EDIT}

Actually, THIS LINK may provide some more detailed info on the topic.

 

Anyone connected directly to the internet will need to have a unique IP address. However, inside local networks (like in an office) people don't have to have addresses that are unique in the whole Internet. The servers (firewalls, gateways, etc) that connect local area networks to the Internet will handle the proper forwarding of packets in this situation.

 

[ January 22, 2002: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Harut]

Sip jan, thank you very much.

i got some sense of it now.

 

of course i want to know more about it.

so, if you could, please, write more about it.

 

for example, how "THEY" use it to trace people, to find people, etc....

and who are "THEY"? who can become "THEY"?

[Sip]

No problemo

 

You can be one of "them" if you want! If you have windows 2000, NT, or 98 (may work in 95 as well) go to the command prompt and type:

 

tracert www.ucla.edu

 

To get to command prompt you can also choose RUN from start menu and type "cmd" (win 2K) or "command" (win 95/98).

 

The tracert command will list all the machines (routers) that are used to connect you to the destination you specify. Basically, it prints the "route" that packets take to get from you to where ever you are talking to.

 

If you type:

 

tracert -d www.ucla.edu

 

it will print the route by IP numbers (it won't translate them to names using DNS). It is actually pretty funny since sometimes I can see that when I send things from Home (in LA) to UCLA, the packets go all the way to San Francisco and get routed back to UCLA!!!

 

Also, if one day you are unable to connect to something, you can use tracert to see where the connection dies (stops).

 

The other command you can play with is nslookup (Win 2000). In the command prompt, you can type:

 

nslookup www.ucla.edu

 

and it should return something like 169.232.33.130.

 

If you type:

 

nslookup 169.232.33.130

 

it should return ucla.edu! This is the DNS stuff I was talking about before. So you can find out what the IP address is for a name and what name is associated with an IP address.

 

If you don't have nslookup, just go to THIS LINK and they let you do the same thing online!

 

If you want to have nslookup you can download it from HERE.

 

So tracing IPs and looing up IPs/names are fairly easy to do and ANYONE connected to the internet can do it

 

If you have access to UNIX and/or LINUX, the same things (and more) can be accomplished there. The commands are a little bit different so let me know what Operating System you are using on your computer.

[Azat]

Sip,

 

Harut uses a Commodore 64 and I use an Atari 2600. Do you know the commands for those?

 

It is always good to see "geek" here.

[MosJan]

SipJan Shnorhakal em,

 

Movses

[Sip]

Thank you for that compliment

 

I think in commodore 64, assuming you have a 1541 Disk Drive, you have to have the nslookup program on a disk. Then you type:

 

LOAD "$",8

 

You'll see:

 

SEARCHING FOR $

LOADING

READY.

 

Then type:

 

LIST

 

if you see nslookup on the list, then you can type:

 

LOAD "NSLOOKUP",8,1

RUN

 

and then follow the on-screen instructions

(man, those were the good old days ... now I am running out of hard disk space even though I had about 30GIG to begin with !!!!!!!!!)

 

Now hooking up a C64 to the internet is a whole different story!!!

 

I don't know the commands for the 2600

[Azat]

I wish I had a C64 now. I am sure some fool would pay me good money for it on ebay.

 

I just recently got a Dell workstation with a 40GIG SCCI dirve and 1 GIG memory and paid only 860, compare to my first PC which was 4MB RAM and 30 MG dard disk and I think I paid 3000+ for it.

 

Do you remember the casset tape that was used as the "hard disk" on the C64?

[Sip]

Hell yah! Those things were cool ... and sometimes I would mix up my audio tapes and data tapes and whooooo haaaa I'd get those deafening noises coming out of my stereo! I think I still have one in my closet somewhere.

I have been playing around with C64 emulators on PC. They are really good. I also used to have a ton of their games on my PC (images of C64 disks that you can run directly in the emulator). I don't know if you know what I am talking about so let me know and I could provide some links ... actually I connected my 1541 disk drive to the PC once (using the parallel port and some special software) and I copied some of my files and old programs that I really wanted to keep. It is amazing how slow those drives are and they seemed so cool back then.

I also have all atari 2600 games on my PC and sometimes it is nice to go back and play them just for fun! It is pretty funny that about 500 Atari games (cartridge ROM images of most of the games ever made) take less than 5MB all together!!!!

I even got this 2600 emulator that works on my IPAQ PDA!!! I couldn't believe it... you can play ALL atari games ever made for the 2600 anywhere on a freakin PDA

[ January 23, 2002: Message edited by: Sip ]

[Harut]

Sip jan, thank you very much.

but more questions just keep on evolving.

 

this was very interesting really. i started having fun with it.

but what i meant was not to trace the route.

i meant was this:

are there "THEY" who can see what site i'm connected to? or what sites i have visited before? or constantly check if i'm online?

(angain who are "THEY" here?)

 

and there rises another question. can "THEY" get into my computer knowing all this info?

 

thanks for now.

i'll be back with more questions.

[Sip]

Glad to hear it!



I just gave those as examples to get you started. It is sometimes difficult to explain things if you don't know the other person's level of knowledge and skills So what I was trying to say is that "they" can be anyone on the net. Anyone with the right know-how and skills can start spying on you. But don't worry! It is not very easy and often it is impossible

Now it would be difficult for me to track you since I have no way of knowing your IP address. However, moderators of this board do have that ability (to see the ip address of a poster) so they can track to see what computer you are posting from (or at least who is the service provider) and whether or not you are really where you claim to be (such as in LA or Armenia). Other than that, they can't do much else other than try to break into your computer (explained below).

About what sites you have visited and tracking, you'll be amazed to know that most of the information is stored in YOUR computer! Simple things such as cookies that you may have heard about all the way to actuall programs that run on your computer (without your knowledge) that track your every move! Cookies are small files that a website can store on your computer regarding what you did (like yahoo can store your username and recognize you next time you go there to check email). Most cookies are used for legitimate purposes but they can also be used to track people.

A very cool program that can help you find such "spy-ware" is ad-aware. It is free and you can download it from HERE. Once started, it will go through all the files on your computer and identify all the "spy-ware" type stuff that people are using to track your actions on the web. Then you have the choice of removing those

[Sip]

Ok now getting into a computer is a whole different story i.e. spying vs hacking. They can spy on you all they want but they may not be able to get into your computer and in your files if your system is secure enough (unless they discover your passwords by spying).

At UCLA, we have people break into our computers all the time. There are just way too many hackers or hacker wanna-be's out there and many many ways they can get it. Actually, sometimes it is pretty funny because I'd be sitting there and wathching these idiots try every single thing .. the kind of stuff they try is very funny at times. Fortunately, most of them are either pretty stupid or just punk kids that don't really know what they are doing. The problems are the very small percentage that are very very good

All you can do is to secure your PC with the latest available "security patches" and hope for the best. In your case, the best you can do is to keep your windows (assuming you have windows) updated with the "Windows Update" feature and also be aware of some simple security issues ... like don't make your drives publicly available (shared).

If you have a modem connection you don't have much to worry since your IP address most likely changes everytime you connect. This way a hacker can't constantly try to get in. But if you have DSL, cable modem, or some other type of high-speed internet, then you have to watch out since your computer is pretty much connected all the time with the same IP address (usually) which gives plenty of opportunities to hackers to try to get in.

I at home don't really care since I don't have any important files that they can get a hold of. I also backup files very often so even if they destroy things I won't loose anything But I do have some security things in place that will make things pretty hard for a hacker wanna-be (it involves linux and firewalling).



Keep-em coming! I don't mind.

[MosJan]

ok I have a question

 

One of our members have contact me some time a go and complained that her computer is not functioning any more, since she has join the forum, weird thinks have happened to her and to her capturers. she was blaming that one of our members have hacked in to her PC and destroyed it completely, now she can not even turn on the PC.

is this passable?

if yes haw can one prevent thinks like this,

remember User-IP and the information are not available to any one other then the Administrator and to some moderators.

 

we are much likely to get a "Virus" by opening a simple Email, that will destroy the computer than some hacker who at first needs to hack the Forum, hack in to one of the moderators accounts, than get hold of her IP than hack in to her PC.

[Sip]

It is a coincidence. It is highly unlikely that her joining the forum had anything to do with her PC problems. It is also very unlikely that someone from outside (or from this board) messed with her PC especially if she has a modem connection. As you said, no one sees the IP addresses other than the moderators and even if you have the IP address you can't really do anything... plus the other main question would be why!!!?

She may have gotten a virus but the source of that is definitley NOT from this type of a discussion board! (email now-a-days is probably the most common source for viruses). There could also be a zillion other reasons the computer died

... Oh, and I am not really sure what you meant by "her capturers"

[ January 24, 2002: Message edited by: Sip ]

[MosJan]

SipJan Shnorhakal em

i will send this to her.

 

"her capturers" He HE it's a new word that i just made

 

MOvses

[Harut]

Sip jan, thanks a lot again.

 

for now (only for now ) i just have couple of points.

 

so, servers (for instace, my internet provider) can see all the times what sites i'm connnected to?

 

why is that moderators can see my IP address?

let's say if i visit your site, you could see that too? or you need some forum-like database on your site?

---

 

i know a little about cookies. i just learnt them by myself, observing my computer (this was the reason (observing my computer) to format my computer probably 4 times already in one year. i completely mess up my system (software wise)).

just one question (maybe this is the most important about the cookies ):

let's say the site has stored a cookies in my computer, and that file gather info about my actions. but then how the same site communicates with the cookie in my computer to see those gathered info?

---

 

Sip jan, i'm asking those questions not beacause there are just interesting to know, but also because i'm a CIS student myself.

a new one though.

so it's always interesting and helpful to get info from experts.

 

thanks.

[Sip]

Yes. Your service provider will see everything that you do. The way the internet is designed is that "trust" is assumed to exist among all machines that are used to connect you to your destination (that's why tracert is helpful). It is unreasonable to expect any level of security above that.

Have you seen recent tv commercials (here in LA anyway) that show this lady sitting in a bar and she gives her number to some guy that she likes? The guy then immediately gives the number to the bar tender and some of his friends !!! She gets completely shocked They are making fun of some ISPs (internet service providers) and how they can give your personal info (like surfing habits) to anyone. There is also this other commercial where a guy is walking down the street and just random people start telling him ... "oh I heard you want to buy a house ...", "... oh that car you are looking at is too expensive " , etc etc and he gets really shocked and scared! To some extent this is true but of course they blow it out of proportion.



It is a feature of this board (software).The administrator can also block certain IP addresses if they want. This way, annoying people can be kept away



Yes I can see it! Anytime anyone accesses a website, that access is usually logged. My personal website happens to be on Earthlink's servers (my service provider) so I don't see those logs. However, I have a machine at UCLA that also acts as a web server. I can put some images on my site from that machine, and anytime someone views my site they will load those images and my server will log that access (including IP address). This is a very normal thing and that's how the internet works.

After all, if I (my server) didn't know your IP address, there would be no way to send the web page to you so you can view it!



I am no expert on this! I just know some general stuff about these things since networking is not really my field. However, you tend to pick up on things as the years go by!!!

As far as I know, the functionality is provided by your browser. So if your browser supports cookies, then when you go back to the site, the site can request the cookie info from your browser which will in turn send that info out. There is almost always an option to disable cookies (like in netscape or internet explorer) but then you wont get the full functionality in most websites.

Glad to see you are taking such an interest in the topic! It is really the only way to learn this stuff since in my experience they won't teach you much in classes (just some basics). The rest is up to you to go and try and learn. The amazing thing is that there is such a wealth of info on the web that it is unbelievable!

But once again, I don't consider myself too much of an "expert" in the field especially when hacking, cracking, and internet technologies are concerned. I just happen to have some general knowledge (in computer science) which I'll be happy to share

[Harut]

thank you.

[Sip]

Harut jan (you are going to love this):

 

I just thought of something you may find very interesting ...

 

http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/1blue1.gif

 

Do you see this bouncing happy face?

 

It resides on my UCLA machine. Since you see it, it means you accessed that machine and your IP was logged. I will try to find your IP address and will PM it to you! (assuming not too many people check this page). So having moderator abilities is not too much of an advantage although they can delete or modify this post anytime they want http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/Sip/zr2/roflmao.gif

[MosJan]

images/smiles/converted/smokin.gif

[Azat]

Sip, very nice job of explaining everything.

 

Harut, Couple of minor clarifications. Cookies are not some program that collect any information on your PC or on your surfing habits. They are flat text files. They only store the information that the web server has sent to it. With that said, I should also tell you that only the machine(domain) that sets the cookie can read that cookie. This gives the website designers/programmers the ability to customize the site for you when you go back and other features like that.

 

Most of the Banner Ads set their own cookies and if the same company does the adds for many of the sites that you visit, they can start to form a basic understanding of where you surf and can start to show you adds that may be of interest to you. But in general don't worry much about cookies. Media makes a big deal about them, but I think of them as a good thing.

 

Hacking - If you are worried about people hacking you PC, one easy step you can take besides the recommendations by Sip is download ZoneAlarm or some other free Firewall software to block them. I use Zonealarm and it is great. This is a must if you have a high speed internet connection.

 

Web servers: To find out more on server logs and what gets logged

Click Here. The software that I work on will even log all that plus your screen resolution, Hard Disk info, RAM and CPU info.

 

ISP: You ISP does see everything you do on the net, but nothing else. They can't see what you do on your PC(ie: excel , word or any other app). By the way, if you ever send an email, your email hits every server on the list of tracert between your PC and the computer where the email was being received and some servers save that email. Bill Gates knows this very well.

 

Emails Advertisements - Our company use to send out mass emails for large corporations and we would put invisible bugs in the email that would tell us when the email was sent, receiver, opened and if and when the person clicked on each link in the email. And we knew all this info for each individual email recipient. This is a bad thing. Some of you may think of this as spam. I do too. But we had all kinds of stats on the recipients of our email. We sometimes were even able to change the email on the fly as it was going out based on the click rates of the links from the people who had already received the email.

[Garo]

Harut if someone really wants to spy on you he will. There are plenty of tools available in the net. And in many cases neither firewalls nor antivirus softwares can prevent it. While I agree with most of the things Azat and Sip explained to you, I don't agree with some 'there's no way to do ...'s.
If you really want to get more information about the security I'd recommend you to take a loot at 'Hacking Exposed' by McClure or Maximum Security by Anonymous (Sams publishing). I'm sure you'll find out a lot of interesting things.

[Harut]

it was really so disappointing when i took my first programming course (the only one yet).
it seems i know more than the professor.
even if he knows, he teaches nothing. (all the professors do is to give tests )
it's all up to me to learn the language.

i still have that course. it's a Visual Basic course and general intro to stractual design.
it's just impossible to learn the language with the books they give. they are just introductories.
i pick up my own books and read them to get more in-depth picture.

[Harut]

because you all are such good guys that i'll take an advantage of it and will open a new topic about programming languages.

don't worry, i won't ask you to teach me whole languages.

maybe just general pictures of each.

[Sip]

Sorry for the confusion. I was trying to say that there are a wide range of things that start from simply cookie type "text" files and get more sophisticated up to a point of actual programs that run.

By the way, Azat, I somehow had a feeling that the cookie can only be read by the creating domain but wasn't sure. Thanks for that clarification!



I totally agree! If I ever said something "can't be done" I was mistaken Usually I use those types of words to indicate something is very unlikely to happen. Either because it is very hard, required a lot of expertise, or just not worth it. And also, there are so many "valuable" things to go and hack that no one would probably think about you Harout (no offense bud!). So Garo has a very good point that ANYTHING is possible but most of those anythings are highly unlikely to happen to a given person.