Stormig Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 I've got me some really cool examples of Java applets, and I've got me a Java decompiler, so now it is time to er, reverse-engineer the examples to get where I want. I've also got this Coffee Cup marquee applet-maker that'll introduce me nicely to a beginner's level. Question I want to ask Azat, Sip, or anyone else is, what ratio of computers DO come ready with Java? Will it be worth the while for me to get into this (in terms of web-design), or will it not? I don't want to tell my viewers, "Hey, if you can't see this cool menu, you have to go download yourself Java Virtual Machine from {some site other than Microsoft} and then come back later." Can anyone help me out, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 geek. I actually do not know what percentage come with Java or not. But my guess would that that a very high percentage would have it within 1-2 month use. As to weather it is worth learning Java or not for web design. I personally do not know Java and have been able to do things without it, but if you have the time it is definitely worth learning. I personally am one who believes that websites should be kept as simple as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Azat:geek. Oh no, I been called a geek! Thanks, guys. Actually, learning is not the goal, although it is likely just going to happen, like it did with HTML and stuff, inevitably. You start looking into it, manipulating, applying trial-and-error, looking up references, and voila!Actually, I have yet to see exactly what good is going to come out of opening and viewing .jar files. Can't know without trying, can ya? I had to do this because these applets are, uhm, "trial version" for 30 days. (Beats me.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 18, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 BTW... quote:Originally posted by Sip:There are basically two major ways you work with Java. One, you create an "applet" which runs inside something else (like a browser using a plugin for example). This is what is used for "web" programming. The second method is creating full "applications" which need a Java Virtual Machine but run independently on their own.Actually, you need JVM either way - I didn't have it until recently and got the same "unavailable image" sort of thing in my browser. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Not sure if I'm a big fan of java/java applets on websites. Most of the time I disable java on my browser anyway. It can be slow, & if it's not done right, can make win98 machines prone to irratic bahaviour (like crashes & hangs, not to mention freezes ) A while back I even had a virus that exploited JVM. quote: It may be a better idea to learn JavaScript and Dynamic HTML and other things like the use of style-sheets. Also, if your server supports it, maybe you should get into PHP or some other server-side scripting/programming language if you want to really "enhance" your website. Much more to my liking - if you have a little time, PHP on Linux can make for some very dynamic/data-base driven sites. All that being said, I've seen some interesting things being done wiht JSP... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vava Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 Hahaha I must be getting tired, but I found this funny.... http://www3.sympatico.ca/mivava/images/javavava.gif javavava! [ February 26, 2003, 08:42 PM: Message edited by: vava ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 18, 2003 Report Share Posted February 18, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Azat:Sip do you not seen the Java Virtual machine for applets in the browser? I thought you did, but I could be wrong.Yes ... you need some type of JVM to run any java. But it used to be that browsers came with their own JVM. Now, I am not to sure what's going on. I read somewhere that Netscape 5.0+ can use any JVM through a JNI bridge. With IE, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft is using the same JVM that comes with windows. Of course you know SUN was suing MS for not packaging the SUN JVM or something like that. It's a MESS ... there is no standard ... and I have NO idea what's going on So I have a feeling (not sure) JAVA applets can be executed using the browser built-in JVM (probably older versions) or using other JVMs on the machine through a plugin. GOOD LUCK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 I think almost any browser these days can support Java. However, you can't expect that everyone will have it. So I wouldn't recommend structuring your website around it, unless you are willing to make two versions ... a "regular" and an "enhanced" version. Java is a nice language to learn. You can do a lot of things with it and you can use it to add bells and whistles to your website(s). There are basically two major ways you work with Java. One, you create an "applet" which runs inside something else (like a browser using a plugin for example). This is what is used for "web" programming. The second method is creating full "applications" which need a Java Virtual Machine but run independently on their own. I personally MUCH prefer C/C++ for creating applications but you can't use it directly to build web applets too easily (like Java). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Oh and if you want some statistics, just from my website I would say somewhere around 85% use IE 5.0+, another 5% use Netscape (guessing due to AOL). In terms of OS, more than 90% use windows, maybe around 3% linux, 3% Mac. That says that you can comfortably assume that a "normal" website will probably get more than 80% IE users running windows which means they most likely can run JavaScript and Java. It may be a better idea to learn JavaScript and Dynamic HTML and other things like the use of style-sheets. Also, if your server supports it, maybe you should get into PHP or some other server-side scripting/programming language if you want to really "enhance" your website. I personally don't find too much excitement in writing java applets ... unless you are thinking of adding some sort of "module" like a game or an application of some sort to your site (like a calculator, clock, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Sip do you not seen the Java Virtual machine for applets in the browser? I thought you did, but I could be wrong. Edit Note: Need not seen [ February 19, 2003, 11:01 AM: Message edited by: Azat ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garo Posted February 19, 2003 Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 As far as I know JVM by default is available on all Windows versions except Windows XP. Windows XP doesn't have JVM enabled by default. But if you have Service Pack 1 installed on your XP it'll enable JVM on your computer again. Another way to have JVM on XP is simply to install the Netscape Navigator. It'll install Sun's JVM on your computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 19, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2003 Thanks, everyone. Just as an aside, Opera gives the option of getting downloaded with or without Java. [ February 19, 2003, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Stormy ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormig Posted February 22, 2003 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2003 Oh, in case anyone's wondering how I figured out that I would need a Java DECOMPILER, that's because in the license agreement it said we couldn't reverse engineer and/or DECOMPILE the archive files. So far, I've tried to figure out how I can change things to an unlimited extent, but I haven't had luck because this dude says "invalid copyright" if you go too far. I looked up the source code of the .jar file (which turns into .jad with the Decompiler), but apparently they've thrown their signature or something to it, I don't know what to do to play around the most with it, instead of just customizing background and font colours (bleah). Should try a bit more, but I don't think I'm gonna be able to succeed in anything and I'll likely have to just settle in for keeping its settings (one of which is copyright notice it gives in the status bar) the way they are. A question. I can't seem to "position" Java elements under or below other things in an HTML document. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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