EGOYAN'S NEXT MOVIES!!!!!

[khodja]

The Turks are distributing a movie which does not tell the whole story about their treatment of European Jews during World War II. The Turks sent back ships filled with Jewish refugees, which soon sunk in the sea, drowning all aboard.

 

Shortly after World War II, the Turks instiuted high taxes for all GIAVOORS, including Jews. Forced labor camps were established by the Turkish Govt. so those who could not pay these exhorbitant taxes could work them off. Numerous Jews, as well as Greeks and Armenians, died in these camps due to the poor conditions and long hours of back-breaking work.

 

Atom Egoyan, please expose these Turkish lies.

[wh00t]

Since when has Egoyan become the top Armenian forerunner to expose Turkish injustice? In recent reports regarding Ararat, Egoyan's words seem to indicate that the many Armenians expecting a historical genocide epic may be sadly disappointed. A balanced, fair approach to the subject, as Egoyan himself reports will be present in the film, is not what many among us want to see.

[Guest Fadi]

wh00t

 

Its the first high audience movie about the subject, I think we should not expect the highest we may be decieved, Egoyan is a very intelligent person, and know perfectly what he is doing. If people will recognise or not a genocide based on a film they will see, then forget about it, this is really not the kind of recognition we should want.

 

Another thing, Miramax is expecting an Oscar with the film, from what was reported, and they know the film, if they expect so much on the film, then it must be not so bad.

[wh00t]

Domino, I'm perfectly aware of Egoyan's genius and am sure that the movie will be on par with the very high quality work exhibited in his films such as Exotica and The Sweet Hereafter.

 

However, what I am concerned about is that many Armenians are under the impression that Ararat will be the Haygagan "Schindler's List"; a veritable triumph over Turkish denial once and for all. I got this type of vibe from hagarag's post, an expectance of Turkish lie exposure, and wanted to comment on it. Egoyan has voiced his intentions to not make the movie so political that it will trivialize the subject matter, so I expect much sensitivity towards the Turkish position -- but not so far as to cast any doubt in the audience's mind whether the genocide took place (he said that himself).

 

Ararat will be complex, with interwoven storylines and subtle themes -- likely an Oscar contender, as you say -- but will it be what Armenians are looking for?

[Guest Fadi]

Agree with you wh00t, Egoyan films are authored films, they are not like those that American publics are habituated to watch... and Armenians should be aware of this. My expectations on the film are not the same as many other Armenians may have... the film is very important, but not for the same reason as many Armenians believe, this film will open to rout, it will be the first one about the subject with a so wide distribution, and this is why I believe it is important, its a film afterall, it is not an archival work, it is not a anti-propaganda work, like a Dadrianism that will shut denialists one time for all. "Schindler's List" was not also the film that have shut deniers of the Holocaust, that film made many noises, when deniers were screaming everywhere that the concentration camps on the film were not similair then the air photos taken for example.

 

This film is the best occasion in order that people hear about the genocide, and it is the occasion for us to prepare for the film, when I say prepare, is to document the genocide like ever, when people will want to know more about the genocide... and Institute such as Zoryan and Gomidas, and more particulary ANI, that I hate so much, should think of the recognition rather then trying to sell their works, I understand they need money, but this way we will never be able to confront denialists, because unlike us, them(denialists) have a government, that finance authors in a way, that everyone can publish their works on the net etc... because the government pay these losses uncountered by these authors... our system is to much privatized, and this is our worst enemy.

 

Here an example is Dadrian works, have you ever wondered why for example when you read The History of the Armenian Genocide, many of the important footnotes refer to other Dadrians works, that them contain the refences ? rather then just give you the reference etc... ? They force you to buy these works that are not avelable in libraries etc... when after you find them, you realise that in Fact Dadrian didnt build up these things, it really a master research, with full of references, that in all the works I have read from other authors, there is no ONE SINGLE person that foot-notes and give such references as Dadrian does, and when I say this, it is not only conserning the Armenian genocide, take Hilbert book about the Holocaust, that is the number one reference and compare it with Dadrian, Dadrian is not only the best conserning the Armenian genocide, he is the best conserning searches about such crimes, you will find no any searcher on the field of genocide that for example the half of each pages are the footnotes of the other half on the top etc... you take these references for example in the "Genocide as a Problem of National and International Law: The World War I Armenian Case and its Contemporary Legal Ramification." Published in the "Yale Journal of International Law" Volume 14, Number 2 its a little more then 100 pages, with 406 footnotes, you read these footnotes alone they are a work in the work.

 

Only Dadrian works alone could destroy every denialist clams one by one, not only covering them, but destroying them, and after reading them, and reading Turkish diplomat works, you realise that these diplomats that deny the genocide, with their pseudo-Intellectual works, have as amazing as it is, have copied Dadrian own archival references(Simsir is an example, for example his work conserning Malta etc...)

 

These are works that should not be sold, they should be free on the net, its a shame that Ani for example, with all what they have, not only nearly havnt updated their sites, but still produces uncompleated references http://www.armenian-genocide.org/affirmati...urt-martial.htm

 

The normal reader that will see this, will not pay attention to it... why ? Because there is a very important ellement that is missing here... and you know what it is ? The pages that are refered here talks about the references that Dadrian give at the end of the actual work, and class them in tables, and the telegrams and to whome they are destinated, then to finish another table with the reviews of the Legal Gazette co0vering of the tribunal in the "Takvimi Vekayi" and their numbers... more then this, the pages references here, he deivded each pages in two colloms, on the left side, there is the Turkish original, on the right side, the English translation... Now the reader that go on that site, and see no references and have no idea from where it comes do even not pay any attention to it, when probably this page in question is probably the most important one from every pages that ANI has.

 

Many details like this, or better their genocide map, that is a reproduction of the one published in around 1920, repeating the same mistakes, and even adding others, like the railroad cuting mistakes etc... and this from an alleged institute.

 

When on the other side we have Turkish site, with all they need every propaganda's, they can publish everything without being afraid of copy right, because these authors work for a government and the denial is not privatisised but rather is Public.

 

Now if we expect Egoyan doing all the work, then we are expecting to much, it is not a simple movie that will change anything, if we do not profit of this movie, we should prepare an offensive and use the covered of the movie in our own adventage... and I learned that we can't expect anything from Zoryan or Gomidas to help the general public to understand, when rarly someone has an idea, of the quantity or quality of materials we have in order to smash denialism one time for all.

 

[ April 27, 2002, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[khodja]

Domino,

 

I am amazed by your depth of understanding on this subject. I agree with you that ANI is generally not "user friendly," neither their website nor the way they treat the Armenian public. Their legal director's "customer service skills" are somewhat better than the rest though.

 

The Turkish government has perfected their denialist machine. They have developed a denialist industry which keeps hundereds of people employed. Armenian monuments are being summarily destroyed to remove any evidence that Eastern Anatolia was EVER held Armenians. They lobby to deny the claims of American citizens of Armenian descent to get insurance policies paid by American companies. They NEVER want to return confiscated personal property in Turkey to their rightful owners. Why have the British and German governments not ratified Genocide resolutions? Perhaps it is because millions of Armenian-owned funds from the Ottoman Imperial Bank were transferred first to German banks and then into British government coffers at the end of the World war II hostilities.

[Guest Fadi]

Not only this, Haragarg...

 

The Ottoman secured only in the Berlin Central Bank 100 million Gold mark, taken from the Armenians, this was returned, demanded by the kemalists for the construction of the Turkish republic... Germany was one of those countries that owe Armenians the most, Dadrian investigations also revieled that Lepsius was asked to remove the evidences of the implication of Germany in the genocide, the word "Concentraion camps" as well as the idea behind it has been proposed by Germany, this word was even not used by the Turks first, while it was used by the Germans. The pact also signed by the Germans and the plan behind the construction of the RailRoad on the rout of Baghdad, first aim was to replace Armenian control over economy with germans, that was the idea behind all this, German emigrants were supposed to replace the Armenians in the East, it was one of the conditions, in order that Germany supply the Turkish Eastern army, with the 3rd one, and their excurtions over Russian territories. Germany has a full responsability over the genocide, and the way they secured the hundreds of millions of Gold Marks that they knew was comming from the Armenians, since many control of them was assured by German officials with the Turks to get that money out and secured in germany, and then later returned to Turkey, that German official didnt lost the time to take their part of money.

 

As for Britain I will even not talk about it, UK, denial is the most discusting of all, only by thinking it, I feal that I will vomit, their lies after 1918, and their redrawel etc... and now daring to deny it... its discusting... France on the other way, that many intellectuals were against the Treaty of Sevres at that time, and their uncompleat investigation, and also their responsabilities, still they have recognised the genocide.

 

We should not let the subject on the hand of Institutions like Zoryan and Gomidas, we should do our part, we should use many meida and the internet is the prime one, in a way to show people that the genocide is so evident, that denying it will be embarassing... this is what governments should know.

[yellow]

Hi, I recently saw Egoyan at a conference on Ararat. I also saw the movie and I think he's a genius! he makes us proud to say we're armenian!

I know that some people are dissapointed that Ararat didn't focus so much on the genocide, but if you look at Egoyan's style, you will see that he never focuses on 'the event' itself, but the aftermath. That's his unique and brilliant style. Also, he said that he couldn't really focus too much on the genocide because then his movie wouldn't get distributed. And I don't like people who talk without knowing the business, Atom's been in it long enough, and successful enough to know what he's doing! Also, he's smart because, we want people to see it, and talk about, did it happen? Why the controversy?? Cuz if he would have made a repeat of Schindler's list à l'armenienne, who would see it besides us? We know it happened, the time has come for others to see it (especially americans!) and to force the turkish goverment to admit it, or get something going. It's been 85 years, and he's the first person to go at it so openly and intelligently! So it is everybody's duty now to make our non-armenians friends and co-workers... to see it.