Guest Posted February 6, 2001 Report Share Posted February 6, 2001 And you cant say there are no gay armenian people, because there are gay people of both sexes on every race and culture. People within them can attempt to hide the fact that gays exist with a culture of their own, (albeit often under wraps, from threat from society and my old favouite, religion) but of course it's impossible. What about victorian england? You would have thought sex never existed with the floor length skirts and buttons all the way to the neck, but of course it did. I would have thought that the gays of that time were totally hidden, but there was a whole male gay community with the upper class of Soho, I learnt while researching into the writer of The importance of being ernest( I have forgetten his name) I have heard many stereotypes. There is no such thing as a gay italian. There is no such thing as a gay greek. And also, There is no such thing as a gey Armenian.This is complete nonsense. So it has to be the same with Armenians. The question is, how they live in our own culture. I know I'm going to set artur off with this but I don't really care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2001 Report Share Posted February 6, 2001 There's actually an organization called GALAS. http://galas.freeservers.com/ They even have a London chapter. So , feel free to "investigate" the subject all you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 ??????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Kazza i can't believe that you opened this kind of topic....... All gays should be put to death!!!!!! That's my thought and what my religion supports!!! And this organisation Of gays and lesbians... Pilafhead it is sad... i can't believe there aren't people who complain about it... Kazza, gays in Armenia are put to prison if police find them... and no lawayers are agreed to defend them... i support this... and i personally think that there should be punishment without any court... direct... Those gay armenians, about 99.9% of them live in the US... and for me they are not armenians... so we can not count them... All of them nomatter who they are where they are.... are shame of our nation... may God punish them all!!!!!!!!!!!!! In Azerbaijan they passed the law of rights given to gays... and now police cannot do much against them... It is just big shame, thats what it is... Shame ArturP.S. Leviticus 20:12-14: If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death(!!!!!); their blood will be on their own heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 Dear Kazza, did you wish to infuriate Artur and stir up new feuds? Although I used to be very much anti-gay person, when I was much younger, I grew up to accept people with different lifestyles and various orientations. Well, I know a few gay Armenians, and surprise-surprise, they are very-much Armenians!They love their Nation and some are involved in Armenian-community activities too. It is irrelevant if Artur or people like Artur likes them or not. They are humman beings who simply have a different sexual orientation! Great deal! As long as they are dissent ( and this aplies to everybody) , we should not have any problem! God loves everybody because everybody is His child. Some passages from the Bible does not reflect God's hate. God is all-loving , all-caring and all-mercyfull. His words of love and forgiveness are His richest gifts to us! Artur jan, please don't be a blind fanatic. You seem such a nice guy, although somehow troubled and with a big mouth full of words of hate and condemnations. The education you are getting should make you a more open minded person . Live and let others do the same and remember that God said "don't judge". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 Good! Thank you very much Raffia,. I liked your reply very much. If only more poeple thaought like you. I'm glad in the end you saw sense and Artur I hope you will do the same one day, I think you will. Artur I think you are being rough on it because I think you like to get reactions sometimes for the sake of it! I didn't want to stir up a feud (I just thought Artur might start!) but I did want to open this subject to a discussion because I think it's important to be in the open. Of course you should count everybody in god's love. God loves every single person, and I dont think god would want us to hate people just because of their orientation. I think the people who wrote those passages were taditioanl homophobic old men! A peice of advice from me is to not take all passages in religious books too heart. Especially when it talks about putting people to death for various reasons , they are taking examples from what was done in that era, which is what we as people should be well past. And also don't forget that the bible through the ages, with all it's reprints: are like chinese whispers! They get interpreted in different ways and people write, priests interpret different things. Lets tanot talk about religion now because that is not the subject in this thread.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 Artur, We talked about this before, but I wonder why you have such venom for gays? If your reasoning is the Bible, why do you not have the same level of anger towards murderers, thiefs, adulterers and others the Bible also condemns? If you're going to go after people based on the Bible: I'd focus my anger first on child molesters/killers, then murderers, then rapists, then thiefs, etc. Gays should be low on the list since their "Biblical crime" affects no one. No need to defend your position. This is just a thought I had. You're obviously not the only person in the world that feels this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 Kazza, now you are trying to question our religion or something. All religions in the world have the same view on homesexuals. For me it is immoral, absolutely against my religion. Pilaf i agree with you that child murderers and rapists rather should be "put to death" than gays... and i have more anger to people who comit the sins like child raping or killing etc. but that's comparison. I can't beliebe you all have armenian gays. That is funny. Did you know that Azerbaijan introduced gay rights... now police will jail you for beating up a gay... funny... Caucasus is falling apart I personally think gays are very bad example to the whole society and it is immoral to accept them, in accordance to our religion and holy book. What is happening in England is immoral. I've heard even church accepted gay marriages (Kazza is that true?). And it is human nature that people react like me against these people. These people are so ill that have nothing to do that to sleep with the same sex... Ahhh, hell with them... I don't judge anybody, we opened this subject to discuss. So, that's my point of view, that's all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2001 Report Share Posted February 7, 2001 And also, Kazza the topic is chosen wisely... Armenian Gay Culture ... hmmmm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 I only know one gay Armenian guy who is a closet gay at that. Other than that I have only known 1 gay guy who is not armenian. I don't judge people. Live and let live. I don't care what a person's sexual preference is. This guy that I know seems to be a very nice and considerate person. I would not want him jailed or beat up because he is gay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 For the record, , I would rather see the cheaters and women beaters locked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 You know what,Artur...you're too extreme.when you speak about christianity(which means love & tolerance ) why do you say that gays should be put to death?They do exist - deal with it! They are people just like you.If you were educated enough you would know that they are not gay just because they want to - they are born gay!Speaking about Armenian gays..Yeah it does sound weird but as long as they are hayrenaser - who cares??We are a small nation so we shouldn't reject other Armenians.This won't benefit our nation.Personally, I don't care about gays (hope my future husbant won't feel gay one day...lol.then I'll hate them..lol..) By the way,as a Memeber of EC,Armenia did pass the law you hate you know what,I'm SICK of your attempts to make Armenia and Armenians a part of the Caucasus brotherhood!We don't belong there!If you were educated enough,again,you would know why.Why don't you make your post more reasonable?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 Well, Nvard, i could believe this kind of posting from anybody but not from you )Everyone born normal, and so called born gays, most of them had girfriends before... that's the fact... it is the way of lifestyle they choose... what you mean sick of my atempts to make Armenia part of the Caucasus??? Armenia was always part of the Caucasus... and it will always be... The only thing i want is peace in the Caucasus region and Unification of the Caucasus, and i think thats the dream of every Caucasian. The only thing i would like to say is that i never question my religion and i follow my religion and everything is writen in my Holy Book... that's it. Astvadz dzez het! [This message has been edited by Artur (edited February 08, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 8, 2001 Report Share Posted February 8, 2001 Leviticus 18:22 says gyoter is an abominations. Leviticus 18:23 says bestiality is an abomination. I think we know where faggots stand. They're sick, they are anti-Christian and anti-Armenian. I for one, will never accept them. I think the majority of Armenians agree with me. I think the majority of people agree with me. Somehow it has become 'politically correct' to accept them. I dunno how this came about. All I gotta say is this. I don't hate them because they're different. I hate them because they're sick. Did you know they let NAMBLA (North American Man Boy Lovers Association) march in gay parades? Yes, that's right. They let wanna-be child molestors march for their rights. It's disgusting and deplorable. It's a figment of the imagination, some sick, perverted desire to be different. Let's just not forget, it's totally anatomically impossible.... SICK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Few comments, Rich, since you have decided to get into the middle of this debate. Leviticus, or otherwise called The 3-rd Book of Moses, is part of the Old Testament, which has two types of values only for Christians, and especially for the Armenian Apostolic Christians: 1. The Old Testament is an interesting source of history; 2. The value of the Old Testament is in few of the prophecies (like of Daniel, Esiekel, etc.) which prophesize regarding the arrival of Messiah – Jesus Christ. This is to what extend does Armenian Church take the Old Testimony. The idea of Christianity is in Jesus Christ being brought to this earth by his Father, for changing the image and the message of God, known to us previously from the Old Testament, and for saving people from the sins committed by them. It may very well be that gays are sick people. But sick people don’t deserve our hate. They deserve only our sympathy. You don’t have to accept them, but you should not tolerate or advocate violence against them, or anybody else, for that matter. The violence against human beings is more of an abomination and denial of the message of Jesus Christ than just the fact of somebody being gay. Accepting them is not about political correctness. In fact, in vast segments of the society, it is politically more correct not to accept them. The issue is about you and me, for that matter, not being the one to throw the stone at them. If it is a sin against God’s rule, it is God’s prerogative to judge them, or change their heart. We don’t have the right to judge them elsewhere but in the court of law, and even that only when they commit crimes inflicting harm to others. I also don’t consider their lifestyle to be normal, and I don’t appreciate the public displays of their type of sexuality. But as long as that takes place away from my space, it is none of my business. If it is about them having special rights, I am opposed to it. But if it is about them having equal rights, I have no disputes about it. Do you? If yes, on whose authority do you claim that privilege of yours of depriving them from equal rights? I have to also admit that your previous posting sounds really anti-Christian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 Any type of activity (1)promotes sin, and (2)is anti-Armenian. As a Christian I am opposed to #1, as an Armenian I am opposed to both. I really don't care at all about odar fags, I just don't want people going around "I'm a gay Armenian". Uh-uh. No way. I'm definitely against that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 You sure are entitled to that opinion, as long as you can separate your opinions from your potential violent actions. You may very well not want them to go around and disclose their sexual orientation. We all have our wishes and desires. But if they decide to do so, what a business of yours would it be, other than disliking it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 9, 2001 Report Share Posted February 9, 2001 My, my, my.... I won't even attempt to get into the fray here... Kazza, the author you're referring to is the genius that is Oscar Wilde. He's one of my faves. His biography makes for exceptionally interesting reading (his trial testimony is hilarious, gotta love the man) , to say nothing of his actual work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 Tigrannes Artur and MJ, you usually impr4ess me but this time you guys have really dissapointed me. You need to hoist yourelves out of the stone age and accept that everyone is different and has their own lives and preferences. What would gay armenians surfing this site think if they saw your posts! At least MJ in the very least is saying live and let live (just about) Tigrannes, I like you and respect your opinion, but so what IF somebody said "I am a gay armenian? What's wrong wth being proud of bieng armenian and gay? Why do you think its a sin(a reason APART from the passages in the bible) I dont see the sin if youre not hurting anyone. I dont see how you link them with child molesterss, to me that seems completley inlvalid. Now having got this out of the way this is not what I wanted to get out of this topic. I wanted to know about gay armenian culture, I was interested to know how gay armenians cope with the way Armenian hetero males peceive gay issues. Not about whether you all agree/disagree with gay issues. Also, I want to know about your opinions in a frank way but you can cut out any talk of hating and killing because it is not constructive and it's also too offensive. For this purpose now I will look at Pilaf's site and no I will NOT "investigate" it in the way he means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2001 Report Share Posted February 11, 2001 Kazza, I think it would sound better, if you could spare me out of this nonsense, and also understand that your position has been most common in the stone age. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Sorry, Kazza, I find it absolutely revolting, as do all of my friends, as does all of my family. I won't accept people who, in God's eyes, are on the level of bestiality (Leviticus 18:22-23). Our people were the first to adopt Christianity- how many martyrs have we given to defend our right to be Christians? These people spit in my face, your face, and every Armenian who has given their life to worship the Son. These people I simply cannot, will not accept. I'm sorry you disagree, but my thinking is not 'in the stoneage'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 How can something 'not be a sin if it doesn't hurt anyone'? Homosexuality DOES hurt us. It is one of the main factors that destroys the moral fiber of society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Kazza, you haven't seen people who have stone age thinking and mentality, believe me i am very liberal and civilised person he he he... Let me tell you that you have typical English way of thinking. People who don't have any morals or traditions whatsoever. However i don't care if it is immoral neither i care what these gays activists try to do. But it is terrible when church recognises these people. That is big shame! ArturP.S. Kazza, There is a book called the Bible, in that book you can find everything, answers for all your questions: about Gays, Women, Men etc. [This message has been edited by Artur (edited February 11, 2001).] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Artur is exactly right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 "let him who has not sinned cast the first stone" anyone? with an admittedly sarcastic smile,gayane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2001 Report Share Posted February 12, 2001 Exactly,Gayan jan! BTW,Artur....You may not agree with me,but Armenia never had the Caucasus mentality.We are very different ethnically and culturaly.Hope you're the only one who wants to unite with all those Muslim highlanders.Jeeze,and you call yourself a real Armenian!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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