Not only the Turks do it

[bellthecat]

It is not only Turkey that refuses to admit to past crimes, and bans/destroys books that reveal those crimes. The paper shredders are probably being oiled as you read this! (NB: on British news sources, the figure is 1 million dead, not the 100,000 stated in this news report).

 

US withholds book detailing 1960s Indonesia role

 

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The Bush administration has halted the distribution of a book about U.S. diplomatic and intelligence activities in Indonesia during the chaotic years of 1965 and 1966, a State Department official said Saturday.

 

The book reportedly states that the U.S. Embassy in Indonesia provided Indonesian security forces with a list of top leaders of the PKI, the Communist Party opposition at the time.

 

The book, a copy of which is available on the Internet, also suggests the U.S. information contributed to the killing of more than 100,000 PKI members at the hands of Indonesian security forces.

 

The flap over the book came the week President Abdurrahman Wahid was ousted by Indonesia's national assembly and replaced by Megawati Sukarnoputri, the 54-year-old daughter of Indonesia's founding president, Sukarno, who was overthrown in the mid-1960s revolt.

 

Wahid, a frail 60-year-old Muslim cleric who has had two strokes and is nearly blind, arrived in Baltimore Friday for a medical checkup.

 

A copy of the book has been obtained by the National Security Archive, a nonprofit research institute operated out of George Washington University in Washington. The institute is a repository for documents that have been declassified by the government.

 

The book has been posted on the institute's Web site, www.nsarchive.org.

 

A State Department official, who asked not to be identified, said the agency earlier this year "began the process of arranging" release of the book to the public.

 

He added that the Government Printing Office mistakenly began distributing copies of the book before an "internal process" of review was completed by the State Department.

 

The official said he did not know how many copies of the Indonesia history book had been sold or when the government might resume sales.

 

According to the National Security Archive, the State Department book states that on Dec. 2, 1965, U.S. Ambassador Marshall Green "endorsed a 50 million rupiah covert payment to the Kap-Gestapu movement leading the repression." The Dec. 30, 1965 response by the CIA to the State Department was withheld, the institute said.

 

A separate State Department volume covering U.S. activities in Greece, Cyprus and Turkey in the mid-1960s "is still locked up in GPO warehouses," the institute said.

 

The two books are part of a 350-volume series of foreign relations books published by the State Department.

 

According to the State Department, the books are intended to present "the official documentary historical record of major U.S. foreign policy decisions and significant diplomatic activity."

 

Among the volumes released in recent decades were historical records of the October 1962 Cuban Missile Crisis, Arab-Israeli conflicts in the mid-1960s and Vietnam in 1966.

[bellthecat]

Sorry, this bit should have been highlighted.

 

A separate State Department volume covering U.S. activities in Greece, Cyprus and Turkey in the mid-1960s "is still locked up in GPO warehouses," the institute said.

[bellthecat]

And would you believe it - the paramilitary group America financed was called the "Gestapu".

 

U.S. Gov't Recalls Indonesia Book

 

By PETE YOST

.c The Associated Press

 

 

WASHINGTON (AP) - In a diplomatic damage-control mission, the government is recalling all copies of a State Department history book from hundreds of libraries because it details the U.S. role in Indonesia's deadly purge of communists in the 1960s.

 

The anti-communist campaign helped topple the country's founding president, Sukarno. His daughter, Megawati Sukarnoputri, became the nation's new leader this week.

 

A State Department cable contained in the book spells out a U.S. plan to funnel tens of thousands of dollars to a group that targeted the Indonesian Communist Party, known as the PKI, for destruction.

 

The book quotes a message from the embassy to the State Department as saying that an embassy-prepared list of communist leaders ``is apparently being used by Indonesian security authorities who seem to lack even the simplest overt information on PKI leadership.''

 

The embassy admitted in an April 15, 1966 message to Washington that ``we frankly do not know whether the real figure'' of communists who have been killed ``is closer to 100,000 or 1,000,000 but believe it wiser to err on the side of the lower estimates, especially when questioned by the press.''

 

The State Department blamed the Government Printing Office for releasing the book without prior approval from State, but the GPO said it had gotten clearance from State in April.

 

``We did not inadvertently release this history,'' said GPO spokesman Andrew Sherman, adding that the office was contacted by the State Department only within the last two weeks.

 

``Every now and then an agency will say, 'there is a problem with a document, can you pull it back?' That's what we have been in the process of doing over the last several days - talking to the State Department and finding a way to ask the libraries to take those books off the shelves,'' Sherman said.

 

The book is ``Foreign Relations of the United States 1964-68, Volume XXVII, Indonesia, Malaysia-Singapore, Philippines.''

 

The National Security Archive, a private group that collects and publishes declassified government documents, said the CIA had tried to suppress the account of U.S. involvement in the anti-communist campaign. The group on Friday posted the disputed volume on Indonesia on its Web site: http://www.nsarchive.org.

 

The text of a four-page CIA memo from then-Far East Division Chief William Colby was excluded from the volume.

 

But there is plenty of detail that remains about the Gestapu, the brutal civilian group that succeeded in suppressing the PKI.

 

``This is to confirm my earlier concurrence that we provide Malik with fifty million rupiahs requested by him for the activities of the Kap-Gestapu movement,'' says a Dec. 2, 1965 document from the American ambassador in Indonesia to William P. Bundy, assistant secretary of state for East Asian and Pacific affairs from 1964 to 1969.

 

``The chances of detection or subsequent revelation of our support in this instance are as minimal as any black bag operation can be,'' the document concludes. The memo identifies Malik as ``one of the key civilians'' in Gestapu and says that ``our endorsement of his present role'' will promote good relations between him and the Indonesian military.

 

Of the Gestapu, the ambassador's document said, ``This army-inspired but civilian-staffed action group is still carrying burden of current repressive efforts targeted against the PKI.''

 

``This month, before the internal process of deciding when to release the volume was completed, we learned that the Government Printing Office had begun distributing copies,'' said a State Department official, speaking on condition of anonymity.

 

``At that point, we asked the Government Printing Office not to sell any more copies because the process was not yet complete and no release date set.''

[MJ]

Steve,

 

Could you explain what your point was in these materials, please?

 

Is it about the allegation that the CIA has done these things in 60s or is it about the State Department recalling the book due to some procedural issues?

[Juggernaut]

Well, put it this way, the as a result of the American intervention in Vietnam, over 2 million civilions died, and the effects of agent orange and other pesticides are taking their toll to this day. Has America apologised? No?

 

As a result of the American led sanctions on Iraq, 5000 children die every month because of malnutrition and lack in medicine. America (and the Brits) is responsible for a Genocide that is taking place right at this moment.

[MJ]

While I understand your premise, and think that you are exaggerating a little bit, though share some of your discontent, I would like to remind you that the US has not unilaterally entered into the Vietnam war, but it has been a competition between the two camps. The US at all levels questions the validity of the reasons to enter into that war.

In the case of Iraq, you have to recall that only two countries passively advocate the lifting of the sanctions against Iraq - Russia and France. And that is probavly becasue Iraq owes significant foreign debt to both of them, and has a good excuse not to pay it until the sanctions are lifted and its economy is back on track.

I do think that the US has committed a lot of ills in the past. I resent it. However, singling out of the US is what I resent even more. When witnessing such singling out, and taking things out of the context, I get an impression of some other motives behind them, or at least unbalanced
hyperventilation.

[bellthecat]

MJ, this seems to be your standard response to ANY criticisim about American policy! You casually dismiss the legitimate points raised, and then start to get personal by attacking the motives, intellect or sanity of the person making those points.

I just love your justification of state censorship and the re-writing of embarassing history by classifying it as a "procedural issue". The next time Turkey does the same thing, what moral basis will you have to argue against it.

[MJ]

Well, it may be my standard response to standard ventilation on the level of paranoia. I haven’t dismissed anything. Nor I have gotten personal. I also have never questioned your sanity or intellect. But if you feel you have questions about them, what is it that I can do?

What I have said is at this time you have no evidence that the State Department is blocking the information you have conveyed. You know perfectly well that it is impossible in the US to block such things due to the Information Freedom Act. All it takes is following certain procedures to make the information public.

However, there may be some procedures that need to be followed. And so far, from what I read, that is what the State Department has insisted on.

Additionally, I would occasionally ‘enjoy’ reading some posts of yours about the embarrassing history of the British Intelligence Service and the British Government, or some other countries. Or do I qualify you silence on this issue as an inability of obtaining similar materials due to even a stricter censorship?

And if Turkey would do it, (and it does it) I would not even argue against it. Let the citizens of Turkey argue about it. Hardly there is anything that Turkey may try to hide that is not known to the rest of the world. It may hide it only from its own citizens.

[bellthecat]

http://groong.usc.edu/news/msg35212.html

 

Kathimerini

Monday, July 30, 2001

 

A US history of Greece is kept secret

 

ATHENS -- A US State Department documentary history covering Greece,

Turkey and Cyprus in the mid-1960s is one of two volumes that the

Central Intelligence Agency is trying to suppress, an academic research

group in the United States has charged. The other, which was released

inadvertently, documents some American responsibility for the murder of

thousands of Indonesian communists at the same time.

 

The National Security Archive, a nonprofit research group at George

Washington University, said on its website (www.nsarchive.org) on Friday

that the CIA is "stalling" the two reports, "even though the documents

included in the volumes were officially declassified in 1998 and 1999,

according to public State Department records."

 

The story was reported in Saturday's Washington Post. The paper quoted a

CIA spokesman, Mark Mansfield, denying the agency's sole responsibility.

"The notion that the CIA has unilaterally blocked the release of these

histories is simply not the case," he said. "We work closely with the

State Department on these matters. All of us are intent on complying

with the law, while at the same time protecting classified information

that if disclosed could be damaging to us."

 

The documentary history dealing with Greece, Cyprus and Turkey was

printed in February 2000 but is locked up at the Government Printing

Office under the label, "Embargo: This publication cannot be released."

Officials declined to say why, the Post reported. The National Security

Archive presented a State Department Historical Advisory Committee

summary in September 1, 1999, saying that the CIA completed its review

of the Cyprus-Greece-Turkey volume on May 14, 1999 and that it was

expected to be published by December that year.

 

The volume is part of the prestigious series, Foreign Relations of the

United States.

[MJ]

I am coming after you, Steve. Hold on.

[Juggernaut]

MJ,

 

 

Yes, Im a member of Usama Bin-Ladins terrorist organisation because I seek to 'damage' the image the US has created of itself at home.

 

quote

Well, it may be my standard response to standard ventilation on the level of paranoia.

 

Yes, its either Im paranoid or you are ignorant.

[MJ]

Actually its more like, only two countries advocate that the sanctions be kept - the US and Britain.

 

OK. But, first, I am not supportive of the Economic sanctions against Iraq. Second, I don’t hear you bashing the UK. Third, I don’t see any country, including the Arab countries, advocating the lifting of the economic blockade against Iraq. If you know something more, I would appreciate if you can educate me.

 

Oh, but it has especially during the Cold War, overthrowing democratically elected governments and installing their own in many cases tyrannical allies. And with the destruction of the USSR, matters are likely to get worse as the US seeks to further its economic and millitary dominance over the world.

 

First, I would appreciate if you tell me which democratically elected governments have been overthrown by the US. However, I am aware of instances in the history of the US, as well as many other countries who have been in position to do anything of the kind, when they have supported one force against another in other countries. I would also appreciate if you could educate me on how does the US seek to further its military dominance in the world? As to the economic dominance of the world… Could you also elaborate how is the US trying to achieve it. And how is it possible? Also, do I sense a frustration in your tone due to the “destruction of USSR?”

 

Yes, Im a member of Usama Bin-Ladins terrorist organization because I seek to 'damage' the image the US has created of itself at home.

 

I don’t think you would be of much interest to Bi-Ladin. But I do think that you have a habit of not being diligent in your assertions.

 

Yes, its either Im paranoid or you are ignorant.

 

I know for sure that I am not ignorant. Therefore, I would like to ask you if you are paranoid. Please confirm. I also think that it is never “either this or that.” As a rule there are other alternatives, too.

[Juggernaut]

MJ,

 

 

Yes, the USSR was good deterant to US 'despotic rule over the world'. Now there is no balance, and the US does whatever it pleases.

 

quote

But I do think that you have a habit of not being diligent in your assertions.

 

I dont see how I am not diligent, perharps you had yourself in mind when you made this statement.

 

quote

I know for sure that I am not ignorant.

 

I would think the majority of the people who are ignorant, dont believe that they are ignorant.

 

quote

Therefore, I would like to ask you if you are paranoid.

 

I can certainly see how an ignorant person can see my view as paranoia.

 

quote

I also think that it is never “either this or that.”

 

Unfortunatelly extremmes do exist in this world, in fact even if they dissapeared then naturally new extremmes will take their place. I hope you understand what I mean.

[MJ]

How ironic… So you have selected to bash the US because it is not “humiliated and hated enough for the wrongs they have committed in the past?”

 

About Iraq’s economic sanctions… As you understand, Russia, France, China, India and Indonesia are not Arab states. In my previous note I had mentioned that Russia and France are pushing very passively for the lifting of the sanctions because Iraq owns them substantial debt. Turkey is an energy starved country, and is definitely interested in the lifting of the sanctions, so that to by oil from Iraq. Even its oil pipelines start getting rusty. However, Turkey readily continues providing support in enforcing the “no fly zone” over the northern districts of Iraq. Otherwise, the isolation of Iraq couldn’t benefit Turkey more, since it provides them with a pretext of running over the Kurdish gorilla camps in Northern Iraq. I am not familiar with the circumstances of Chinese, Indian or Indonesian push to lift the sanctions against Iraq up. Please illuminate me. Finally, in what way have the “rest” of the Arab states expressed their desire to lift the sanctions against Iraq up? . In what forum have they done it? In fact, as much as I know, all of the Arab states that I know of, want to see Iraq being contained further, since it is perceived to be a threat for all of them. That’s why they supported the Golf War in the first place. And in what way do you think the US may force them, as well as Russia, France, or China to do business with Iraq? Btw, even Armenia does business with Iraq. With all this said, I think the sanctions in current scale need to be lifted up.

 

Somehow, when I hear the expression like “democratically elected Socialist government” of Chile or “democratically elected communist government” of Angola, I can smile only under the best scenario. When in the 60’s or 70’s have you heard of any democratic elections in Latin America or Africa? Your assertion about South Africa also needs some clarification. It is not clear what you are saying. Please continue elaborating your message further, only with greater clarity.

 

You say that the US tries to militarily dominate the world through its missile defense. May I refer you again to a good dictionary so that you learn the meaning of the word “defense?” And could you also articulate here the essence of the –anti-missile defense program of the US, so that we make sure that you know what you are talking about? Or do you think that the “Missile defence. nuff said” expression is so powerful that it requires no further elaboration?

 

Also, tell us please how many “smaller and in many cases impoverished nations” do you know that so far the US has forced to favor its corporations over local and international competitors. I can bring one example related to the topic, myself. I know well of a small nation which is practically begging the US to bring its corporations over, but so far it is not yielding any results. That nation is Armenia, as you can guess.

 

Yes, the USSR was good deterrent to US 'despotic rule over the world.' Now there is no balance, and the US does whatever it pleases.

 

I would refrain from commenting on your statement referenced above. I think it is very transparent on its own.

 

Dear Juggernaut, In conclusion, I hope that as you grow, you would put more effort in educating yourself in a multiple of platitudes, and on becoming a good professional. I do strongly believe that you have all the potential needed for it. The position you demonstrate is a stage in life, that many of us have passed through. Many of us, much like you, have tried to assert our individuality through such arguments. And less mature we were, larger prey we hunted for, so that to add it to the list of our trophies, and to become a hero overnight. With the age comes the wisdom, however, and we learn not to bite what we cannot swallow. It will be the same with you, too, believe me. In most of the cases, these arguments are just a search for the truth, whatever that may mean. Please stick around, and feel free to jump in anytime. Your participation in the forum is appreciated and valued. And please don’t take these arguments personal. We like you and we love you, and we want to see you grow with the forum.

 

My best wishes to you until the next encounter.

[Juggernaut]

MJ,

 

quote

I am not familiar with the circumstances of Chinese, Indian or Indonesian push to lift the sanctions against Iraq up. Please illuminate me.

 

China - like Russia a permanent member of the Security Council has always advocated the lifting of sanctions.

 

India - I included India in my post because its the 2nd most populous nation, and it too advocates (although less strongly of course) the lifting of sanctions

 

Indonesia - Indonesia was included because it is the 4th most populous nation and after the US supported Oz in the Timor affair it became a strong advocate for Iraq, and their President even came close to vising Saddaam.

 

Arab countries - Most of the Arab countries have shown their dissatisfaction with the sanctions by ignoring the no-fly zone and normalising relations.

 

quote

When in the 60’s or 70’s have you heard of any democratic elections in Latin America or Africa?

 

I very much doubt the US would have chosen a different policy if the respective African and Latin American countries were trully democratically elected.

 

quote

Your assertion about South Africa also needs some clarification.

 

The US made a secret pseudo-alliance with South Africa in 1970s. By which the US would refrain from complaining about the aparthait in South Africa too much and South Africa would aid the rebels in Angola against the government. Clear? I saw an American documentary on this only last week....I even recall the name of the documentary which is also my source of information on Chile "Cold War". You might have even seen it.

 

quote

May I refer you again to a good dictionary so that you learn the meaning of the word “defense?”

 

Please you know this as well as I do, all armies of the world have 'defence' somehow attached to their names, and if they were only used in defence then there would be no wars.

 

quote

Or do you think that the “Missile defence. nuff said” expression is so powerful that it requires no further elaboration?

 

I certainly do

 

quote

Also, tell us please how many “smaller and in many cases impoverished nations” do you know that so far the US has forced to favor its corporations over local and international competitors.

 

This topic was bought up on BBC (a few weeks ago) and largelly dealt with American corporations and government behaviour in African nations escpessially in relation to oil.

 

I am not going to be botherred commenting on the last paragraph of yours as I dont see how it bears any relevance.

[MJ]

China - like Russia a permanent member of the Security Council has always advocated the lifting of sanctions.

India - I included India in my post because its the 2nd most populous nation, and it too advocates (although less strongly of course) the lifting of sanctions.

Indonesia - Indonesia was included because it is the 4th most populous nation and after the US supported Oz in the Timor affair it became a strong advocate for Iraq, and their President even came close to visiting Saddam.

Arab countries - Most of the Arab countries have shown their dissatisfaction with the sanctions by ignoring the no-fly zone and normalizing relations.

 

Thank you for the information. I’ll keep it in mind. Since you claim that most of the Arab states are ignoring the no-fly zone and are normalizing the relations with Iraq (if I understand you correctly), do I assume that the sanctions are over? Also, have a question. Next time China, India, Indonesia, France, Russia, etc, decide to do business with Iraq, and send an airplane with goods to Iraq, do you think that the US military will shut their planes?

You sure have the right to doubt that “the US would have chosen a different policy if the respective African and Latin American countries were truly democratically elected.” But are your doubts based on knowledge, information or faith?

 

The US made a secret pseudo-alliance with South Africa in 1970s. By which the US would refrain from complaining about the apartheid in South Africa too much and South Africa would aid the rebels in Angola against the government. Clear? I saw an American documentary on this only last week.... I even recall the name of the documentary which is also my source of information on Chile "Cold War". You might have even seen it.

 

Sorry not clear, yet. In your past accusation you were claiming “the US supplied the rebels and even made an ally of South Africa (at the time of apartheid) in order to overthrow the government” in the context of overthrowing the democratically elected governments. I still don’t understand what were you saying. Besides, isn’t the US a beautiful country? Who else allows making such documentary films about its “secrets?”

 

Please you know this as well as I do, all armies of the world have 'defense' somehow attached to their names, and if they were only used in defense then there would be no wars.

 

That’s OK. As I have said before, with the age you may adjust an opinion or two.

 

This topic [of America forcing itself to the impoverished countries –MJ) was bought up on BBC (a few weeks ago) and largely dealt with American corporations and government behavior in African nations especially in relation to oil.

 

Can you give us some details, please? Which impoverished African countries are we talking about, how did the US eliminate its international competitors and the local businessman. Since you have seen a BBC report on the subject, I assume you know a lot about the topic, and wouldn’t mind sharing it with the rest of us?

 

I am not going to be bothered commenting on the last paragraph of yours as I don’t see how it bears any relevance.

 

Not necessary to comment. Just keep it in mind, and periodically check yourself. That is, if you want to.

[Boghos]

Africa in the 60's and the beginning of the 70's was still living the end of colonozation. Full of revolutionary governments and movements. Latin America was under a very different historical process. The great majority of its government, at all levels, had been democratically elected. Some countries were flirting with socialism, more in the European sense of that time, and not necessarily the totalitarian version of it. The involvement of the CIA in helping the coup d'etat in Chile is well documented, even the assassination of Osvaldo Letelier, in the USA by the way, a cabinet minister of Allende has been recognized as having been aided by the CIA. It is probably not fair to say that the various military coups that took place in Latin America (Brazil in 1965, Uruguay, 1973, for example), were a result of American policies, but did have American "Cold War" logistical (finance, intelligence, diplomatic...) support.

As to Angola, it became independent after the MLPA (a pro-Soviet guerilla group) took over and the Portuguese left, in 1975. Ever since bothe South Africa and the US supported UNITA, a pro-Western group in its attempts to overthrow or destabilize Socialist Angola.

It is well studied and understod that countries such as the US act in their self-interest, and in the process cause negative and positive externalities. I could point to several other examples, Nicaragua and the "contras" come to mind. This is realpolitik at work. Something that we, Armenians, have in the past been the victim of, for lack of understanding of how this really works.

[ August 05, 2001: Message edited by: Boghos ]

[MJ]

Boghos,

Did you mean to say "It is probably not fair..." or "It is probably fair...," above?

Also, please note that I have not questioned the CIA involvement in Chile, Angola, or elsewhere, but have attempted to put it in the right context of the "Cold War," where the two camps have fought for the "zones of influence."

[Boghos]

MJ,

 

I meant "it is not fair", as the traditional left has always blamed the US for the coups whereas they were really locally engineered products.

[MJ]

That's what I thought you meant. Therefore, perhaps you meant to say further down, "...were a result of American policies" rather than "...were not a result of American policies."

I pretty much am trying to convey the same message as you are. I just don't think that while some "innocently president was playing nardi/tavlou" CIA was conspiring overthrowing him.

Overall, my remarks are directed at not losing the site of the reality, and not blowing our characterizations out of their real proportions.

[Boghos]

I know. And you are quite right I just corrected myself. The edit function reminded me of Orwell's 1984, you can alter the past . Have you seen the movie ?

 

Where is Steve, the cat ? Let's talk about all the terrible things the Brits did .

[Boghos]

You know, we should create something like the post of the day...this was very funny. By the way, does LTP play nardi ?

[MJ]

Doesn't ring the bell, but thee cat, I think, is positioning himself for the next jump.

[MJ]

Don't know. But I am sure, now he has a lot of time to play it.

[Juggernaut]

MJ,

 

I am not going to be bothered posting replies to your comments anymore, its a waste of time, a commodity I have little of. In any event whatever I post is dismissed by yourself in the wrong assumption that I am minor and my opinion will change with time. I am not denying that it probably will, but so will everyone elses. Currently my views stand, and I can reply to your post but I am not going to be bothered because it will lead nowhere. Thereby I am also saving your time, though judging by the amount of posts you have made you probably are a proficient typer. I am only going to reply to your posts only if you specifically ask me to or if your post p!sses me off.

 

Cheers.