Meghri: To exchange or not to exchange

[Guest]

Wow those Pakis want to align with Azerbaijan! Good, so let us align with India, I think I mentioned this somewhere before, is Armenia taking steps to do this? I only hope WWIII doesn't result!

[Guest]

Whenever the war starts we are going to win it again. GOD is on our side! Azeris might get any help from the whole world but with our faith we will destroy them all in the name of the GOD!!! Bosaev - Chechens, Turkish, Islamic world they all helped Azeris in the first war, but we won! All we need is our faith and help from brothers in the west. Our faith is stronger than any weapon and bullet any enemy!!! Start saving your money for the time, which might come!

 

But I personally believe that Aliev is rational and clever presedent and He will not let that happen.

 

Everyday, 2 times a day, I pray to my GOD for this not to happen and I suggest you to do that, because for centeries God helped and protected us, nobody could destroy us and nobody will!!!

But when time comes we will be victorous!

 

GOD bless you!

AA

 

P.S. Too patriotic, aaiii:)

[Guest]

Please NO!!!!

NO wars!

armenia had enough last time!!!Our country is not ready for a war, can't you see that???

We won the Karabagh war let's not start again!please!

[Guest]

Meghri Regional Revitalization, Financial Discussions Underway

 

YEREVAN (Noyan Tapan)—The Meghri regional socio-economic

revitalization program has been estimated to bear a price tag of 2

billion drams, the equivalent of $3.6 million, reported Meghri

parliamentary representative, and Unity bloc member of the Meghri

parliamentary commission Grigor Haroutiunian.

 

The parliament member added that the financial aspects of the project

make it an unrealistic venture in today’s Armenia.

 

According to the parliamentarian, the financial elements of the plan,

are still being amended and need to be completed in a realistic and

feasible manner for the project.

 

Based on his understanding of the issues, Haroutiunian said that first

and foremost issues relating to the population, including employment,

wages and housing issues must be resolved.

 

The urgency of the project and the need to move forward with it is

absolutely of great significance, according to Haroutiunian, because of

 

the ever-increasing suspicion, on behalf of residents, on the recently

discussed land swap options relating to the Artsax conflict.

 

It is important to develop a working and functioning reality for Meghri

residents, so the population does not abandon the region, said the

parliament representative, adding that the entire country is responsible

for the area's reviatilization and progress.

[Guest]

If there is a program to vitalise Meghri's economy it will be finaced by either IMF or WB. And as usual, the WB's or IMF's money will go directly to the pockets of ministers, prime-minister, president and they will make new political concessions.

Meghri's and Zangezur's (Meghri is situated in the Zangezur region) economic future is connected with Armenia-Iran trade, molibdenum and copper plants situated in Agarak, Lichkvaz etc. But the US ambassador has already announced that Armenia must not be an industrial country, they don't need molibdenium plants in Armenia. He says let's develop tourism. Tourism is Armenia's future. Casinos, whorehouses, strip-clubs are Armenia's future. Open some whorehouses in Meghri for the turks and Zangezur's economy will flourish.

 

People, I'm already conviced that at least in 70-s and 80-s Soviet Union was a great country. At least in those days nobody doubted the future of Armenian people's physical exsistance.

[Guest]

BArev Berj Barov yekar es ur es es 2 ora?

kartsem te amen inch asetsir arten aselu ban chmanats

Nice having you back.

[Guest]

JanFedayi jan,

Barov tesanq aper. Gorts-morts kar.

 

Tngats pahi aper,

Arayzhm

[Guest]

TERRITORIAL SWAP BETWEEN AZERBAIJAN AND ARMENIA NOT DEBATED SERIOUSLY IN BAKU

YEREVAN, JUNE 30, ARMENPRESS:

"The Azerbaijani press shows a negative attitude towards the territorial swap between Azerbaijan and Armenia for the settlement of Karabagh conflict and this issue is not debated seriously," Arif Aliyev, chairman of the Yeni Nesil (New Generation) Union of Journalists in Baku told Armenian reporters on Thursday in Yerevan.

 

Arif Aliyev has arrived in Armenia to take part in a workshop to be held here from June 1-3 which is supposed to deal with the role of journalists during ethnic conflicts in the Caucasus.

 

Responding to his Armenian counterparts' questions about how the peaceful settlement of the conflict and the economic life in Armenia is elucidated in Azerbaijani press, Aliyev said the relevant information was provided cautiously and well-balanced because "many of Azeri reporters have been to Armenia over these years, have contacts with Armenian reporters and master the subject rather well."

 

The biggest portion of information falls to the Karabagh conflict. There is also a significant interest towards the inner-political situation in Armenia. The tragic events in the Armenian parliament last October 27 were elucidated very largely and in detail in the Azerbaijani press, as well as any elections held in Armenia, said Aliyev.

[Guest]

exchange of Meghri means "THE TOTAL ISOLATION OF ARMENIA" Armenia would be "SURRENDED BY THE HOSTILE STATES" Also it means that Turkey gets a way to imperialise Azerbaijan and Central Asia. americans like this plan, as Turkey is their dog, but Russia doesn't let it happen, also the Iranian officials have declared that such a plan is unacceptable to them. shortly Meghri to azerbaijan means strenghtening the influence of USA in great parts of southern CIS, which Russia would not be happy about that, so the exchange of Meghri, may cause a big war!

[Guest]

Gayane I know that you are Patriotic.

 

if, there comes a battle of Meghri, I also go fight side by side with the Hayastanis. Because the loss of Meghri, is the loss of the whole region

[Guest]

Iranyar, agreed. Completely.

 

LOL..for those of you who would think I'm not patriotic enough, I'll say this: God help those who would choose to fight my people ;o)

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Artur:
Whenever the war starts we are going to win it again. GOD is on our side! Azeris might get any help from the whole world but with our faith we will destroy them all in the name of the GOD!!! Bosaev - Chechens, Turkish, Islamic world they all helped Azeris in the first war, but we won! All we need is our faith and help from brothers in the west. Our faith is stronger than any weapon and bullet any enemy!!! Start saving your money for the time, which might come!

But I personally believe that Aliev is rational and clever presedent and He will not let that happen.

Everyday, 2 times a day, I pray to my GOD for this not to happen and I suggest you to do that, because for centeries God helped and protected us, nobody could destroy us and nobody will!!!
But when time comes we will be victorous!

GOD bless you!
AA

P.S. Too patriotic, aaiii: )

---

If those creatures even try to invade little ARmenia they will get their asses whooped
also i am from the U.s. and every year our family sends a shitload of cash to Armenia.
And if the U.S. tries to side with turkey in the event of a war i will storm the government and take control it will be FRICKIN' Anarchy!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I think this will interest the people who are concerned with the future of Megri. I will try to present my views some other day.

 

Territorial swap plan was factor in parliamentary shootings - paper

'Aravot'

3 Aug 2000

 

Text of Naira Mamikonyan report by the Armenian newspaper 'Aravot' entitled

"About Megri, and not only that"

 

Certain people may regard as strange our interest in Megri, Armenia's

southern gateway, or our interest may make them nervous. But we are

interested in this question because it is still on the agenda in the

context of resolving the Artsax problem. NATO Deputy Secretary-General

Klaus-Peter Klaiber mentioned this issue. He told journalists, that he had

discussed the possibility of a territorial swap with Armenian President

Robert Kocharyan. Mr Klaiber gave no details of this on the grounds that

negotiations on the Artsax problem are strictly confidential. The

Armenian authorities and those who are well-informed about these

negotiations and keep assuring the West that resolution of the Artsax

problem is in its final phase also remain silent.

 

A long time ago the press and political circles said that the idea of

resolving the Artsax problem by means of a territorial swap was a

contributory factor in the tragic events which took place on 27th October

[Armenian parliamentary shootings].

 

Last year, during the funeral of the victims of these tragic events,

Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin and the chairman of the State Duma,

Gennadiy Seleznev, who visited Armenia, stated that the targets of this

terrorist act - the late Armenian speaker Karen Demirchyan and Prime

Minister Vazgen Sarkisyan - were close friends of Russia and they implied

that, indirectly, this terrorist act was against Russia as well. Russian TV

and the press then repeated comments of this sort.

 

Talking recently to an Iranian official, he said that the 27th October

investigatory body was unable, or did not want to expose the people who

really gave the order for this terrorist act. "Great efforts were made to

hide any real trace of those who gave the orders for this terrorist act

and, following orders, the investigative body got things wrong," the

Iranian official said. What he was referring to was the West and its

possible role in this affair.

 

Some analysts conclude that only special services which have support in

Armenia could have carried out the murders in the 27th October case.

 

Some news disseminated via the Internet is much more interesting. This news

is dated 2nd November 1999, but, for some reason, it appeared on the

Internet only recently. It says: "According to sources close to the Russian

electronic surveillance service, US Deputy Secretary of State Strobe

Talbottt reported to Washington the perfect success of the operation

carried out in Armenia." According to the same information, the subtext of

this report is that the objective of the terrorist act in the Armenian

parliament was the liquidation of Russia's two most consistent supporters

in the top circles of the Armenian authorities. According to the same

report, the second phase of this operation was to appoint "supporters of a

soft line" to the posts of prime minister and parliamentary speaker. In the

third phase, a change at the top of the power [defence, national security

and interior] ministries was planned, and so on.

 

It should be recalled that the Western press wrote about "the bloody

trajectory of Talbott's visit".

 

This information [from the Internet] might seem more innocuous, but for one

fact: The problem is that Talbott was in Armenia on 27th October 1999. In

addition, At 1100 that day Vazgen Sarkisyan left the government building

and did not return. Before taking part in the question and answer session

in parliament, Sarkisyan was in the Armenian president's residence for four

hours. There he discussed the Artsax problem with Armenian President

Robert Kocharyan, Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan and Talbott. According

to certain information, the question of Megri was also discussed and Vazgen

Sarkisyan's position on this question was very tough.

 

According to Armenian Interior Ministry information, Mr Talbott left

Armenia and then returned on 29th October to offer condolences on behalf of

the USA. He has never visited Armenia again since. In this context,

Kocharyan and Armenian Defence Minister Serzh Sarkisyan's official visits

to the USA, where resolution of the Artsax problem was discussed at

various meetings, are of great interest. The problem is that no-one in

Armenia knows from what point of view this question was discussed during

these meetings and what options for resolving the problem were considered,

which is natural enough. "Evil tongues" say that the Armenian officials who

visited the USA had certain expectations as to what they would achieve from

their visits, but these were disappointed. What specific expectations? Our

sources have so far managed to avoid answering this question, although

there are some suspicions about this.

 

Just recently, in particular, some local observers have again remembered

that the US embassy is very close to both the president's residence and the

National Assembly, which is very dangerous from the point of view of state

security. In the past many people were concerned about this.

[Guest]

verchin 3 shabtneri @enthatskum katarvel mi kani depker voronk anurraki kap unen Meghri-karabagh hartsy het .

inchpes tesnum ek Aliev@ tsnakanum e handznel Naxijevan@ turkyai rekavarutyan@. ka nayev iyspisy mi varkats vor Karabag@ poxanaken Naxijevani het. yev kam naxijevan@ handznen turkyain paymanov vor Karabagh@ mna Hayastanin . >>

 

verchin lurer@ statsel enk KomAygii Shaxmaty chempyon Sako Dzadzyaits vor@ iys huyj karevor yev Gaxtni nyut@ E-mail er arel Glandeli Maypel Parki NArdiyi chempyon VArujanin - inkn el indz asets /paymanov vor voch mekin chasem

 

mi kich katak sakayn kan iyspisy xosaktsutyuner, yev chka sut vori kes@ gone jisht chlini.

[Guest]

MosJan

@ndhakarak@; Chka Jishd vor kes@ sut chlini ;-)

[Guest]

Governor of region in south Armenia resigns

Noyan Tapan

10 Aug 2000

 

 

Yerevan, 10th August: The Armenian government accepted the resignation of

the governor of Syunik [Region], Roman Navasardyan, on 10th August. The

information and public relations department of the Armenian government

reported that Prime Minister Andranik Markaryan thanked Roman Navasardyan

for all the work he has done. The reason behind his resignation was not

mentioned.

[Guest]

Thanks for all the info, guys

 

(tsisht kam sut gaxaparnere parzapes goyutyun chunen..amen inch haraberakane )

 

[This message has been edited by Gayane (edited August 14, 2000).]

[Guest]

My jumping into this subject may be a little-bit out of the context or late, but nevertheless, I want to express an opinion, and I don't claim to be an expert to any degree in this subject.

 

I think the panic surrounding Meghri is somewhat exaggerated. I think that some of us in this forum capitulate prematurely. I don't think that Azerbaijan even in alliance with Basaeve, etc is positioned to invade Meghri, unless we ourselves hand it over, much like we have done it with Kars in 1918. While I have appreciation for the pacifistic views of some in this forum, and I value their faith in THEIR GOD, I think one of the greatest tragedies of Armenians throughout history has been the attempt to give to the Lord what belongs to the Caesar.

 

On the other hand, I think, on a larger scale, the subject is being kept alive by the outside forces, and those in the Armenian political landscape, who want to use the subject against the current ruling circles. I think we have to also recognize that if the intention of hand-over of the regional and international superpowers is really serious, and is not of exploratory character, there would be not much we as Armenians could do, other than to write yet another chapter of desperate heroism.

 

However, I think that this issue has become of interest to certain circles on the International arena because of its geopolitical significance for the purpose of delivering the Azeri Oil, and more importantly, the Turkmen Natural Gas to the Western Markets. Fortunately, those interested in this large-scale operation are currently being provided with some alternatives. In particular, I think the latest elections in Iran, and the potential warming of relations between Iran and USA is derailing the focus of the interested parties from Meghri to Iran, especially given the much lower cost of the mentioned rout. On the other hand, I think it is very naive to think that the perspective of the Georgian rout may provide the piece of mind to those who are considering significant investments to build the necessary pipelines. Additionally, the ongoing, and in my mind endless Chechen war is precluding Russia physically from claiming a serious participation. Therefore, it leaves one with two alternatives: Armenian rout, or Iranian. I don’t think that any of the US officials will admit at this stage that they are seriously considering the Iranian option, but I don’t have any doubts that this option is very real. I think it will depend by in large on who wins the struggle between the State Department’s two conflicting factions.

 

I think the Armenian rout is very unlikely, though I recognize that it will be discussed and used for political purposed for long time to come. I think the primary reason Armenia will not be the choice of rout is the lack of the Armenian side to claim reliability, and it would be hard to Armenia to claim or maintain political neutrality in the case of participation in the transit of oil and gas. As it has been the case throughout our entire history, Armenia has gotten tangled between the East and West, and the North and South. We have not been able to make the case before, and I don't see how we can do it now, though some 10-15 years ago I strongly believed that we have a unique chance to become a junior, but empowered with a special function member of the Big Boys Club. I think our subsequent Armenian governments and Think Tanks have missed the chance at this junction, too.

 

I also think, that the superpowers have no serious reason to separate Meghri from Armenia, because it serves no real purpose. We have to take into consideration the fact of Russia's ongoing weakening, and the economic and military crises, which will be with them for long time. Also, it seems to me that Armenia currently is exploring the opportunities and the gains from deviating from the traditional for Armenia pro-Russian orientation. This is probably one of the greatest and costliest diplomatic games that Armenia has to play for the coming 10 years or so. I don’t think that the outcome of the game may be stake in the oil money, but rather a validated status quo. The basis of the status quo I think will be much in line with the Cyprusization of the Karabagh issue. Neither party of the war nor, as it is customary to say – conflict has the mandate from their respective nations to make significant concessions, and I don’t think that there is any acceptable de-jure compromise solution that any of the parties will sign. On the other hand, neither party is interested in the continuation of the war. I think it is ridiculous to talk about swapping territories in the context of Meghri. I think, given the control of some factually Azeri territories as a buffer zone by the Armenian armed forces, the discussions of Meghri are artificial, and their internal intensification serves other purposes. Recall that the regime of Ter-Petrossian was brought down through the Karabagh issue, and not on the merits of plundering the nation. I can claim that if any subsequent regimes are brought down, the instrument will still be the Karabagh issue, and its integral part – Meghri.

[Guest]

A NEW VARIANT OF LAND SWAP WITH AZERBAIJAN WAS OFFERED TO ARMENIAN PRESIDENT IN THE USA, YEREVAN PAPER REPORTS

14.09.2000 13.15

14.09.2000, MEDIAMAX, YEREVAN. A modified variant of land swap between Armenia and Azerbaijan was offered to Armenian president Robert Kocharian in the USA, reports today Yerevan "Aravot" paper.

According to the paper, giving to Azerbaijan the region of Meghri, which links Armenia with Iran, Armenia will get an "air bridge" with Iran.

During the past months the president of Armenia Robert Kocharian has repeatedly declared that the variant of land swap between Armenia and Azerbaijan was considered at the negotiations with the president of Azerbaijan Heydar Aliyev, but it was rejected by the Armenian side and it is no longer on the agenda.

At the meeting with the co-chairmen of the OSCE Minsk group in July 2000 Armenian Prime Minister Andranik Margarian declared: "Despite the fact that Armenia speaks for a concessive solution of the Artsax conflict, I consider unacceptable the very talks about land swap with Azerbaijan". Margarian noted that Armenia is not going to make its territories of strategic importance the subject of negotiations. -0-

[Guest]

RFE/RL NEWSLINE Vol. 4, No. 203, Part I, 19 October 2000

 

TRANSCAUCASUS AND CENTRAL ASIA

 

ARMENIAN OPPOSITION POLITICIAN SAYS PRESIDENT WILL AGREE TO

LAND SWAP. Ashot Manucharian, who served in the early 1990s

as national security adviser to former President Levon Ter-

Petrossian, told journalists in Yerevan on 18 October that

President Robert Kocharian should resign as he is ready to

yield to Western pressure to approve an exchange of territory

between Armenia and Azerbaijan, RFE/RL's Yerevan bureau

reported. That exchange would entail Armenia securing

international recognition of its sovereignty over the

disputed and unrecognized Nagorno-Artsax Republic in

exchange for giving up its south-eastern district of Meghri,

which borders on Iran, Manucharian said. He added that Prime

Minister Vazgen Sargsian and parliamentary speaker Karen

Demirchian were shot dead one year ago because of their

opposition to that scheme. Armenian officials say the land

swap was proposed by international mediators last year as a

solution to the Artsax conflict but that Yerevan rejected

it (see "RFE/RL Caucasus Report," Vol. 3, No. 23, 8 June

2000). LF

[Guest]

PRESIDENTIAL SPOKESMAN SWEEPS AWAY MANUCHARIAN'S ALLEGATIONS

YEREVAN, OCTOBER 19, ARMENPRESS:

A spokesman for president Kocharian moved swiftly today to sweep away allegations sounded by Ashot Manucharian, the political secretary of a minor Union of Socialist forces with a strong pro-Russian orientation, describing them as "too exotic to comment on."

 

Speaking to Armenpress Vahe Gabrielian, president Kocharian's spokesman said it was senseless to comment on Manucharian's allegations who had alleged at an October 18 news conference that last year's killings in Armenian parliament had been plotted by Western special service to eliminate former prime minister Vazgen Sarkisian and parliament speaker Karen Demirchian "because they opposed a territorial swap between Azerbaijan and Armenia for the regulation of Karabagh conflict."

 

Manucharian also accused president Kocharian of trying to hide this theory from investigators.

 

"Ashot Manucharian remains faithful to himself and his allegations are to exotic to be commented on. I think the goal of his groundless accusations is to draw attention on the eve of a mass rally in Yerevan, he is going to stage," Gabrielian told Armenpress.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

Don't take Ashot Manucharyan too serious, when he speaks on geopolitics. He is a typical "komsomol obyzhnik."

 

When he speak on corruption though, then he is more credible. He is one of the few in his circle, not to get corrupt.

[Guest]

MJ,

 

I don't. I'm just following the news.

 

But you know, we shall take into consideration that if he's worthy of giving credit on corruption issues in Armenia, than he's credible on a large number of issues. Especially at present.

[Guest]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Artur:
If one of you have another sollution, i want to read it.
Azeris will not give the land up for wining the war.
[This message has been edited by Artur (edited June 20, 2000).]

---

The soulution is common state, if Azeries claim to love Artsakh, let it benefit from Azerbaijan. Let Azeris invest in Artsakh sell oil and do business with. As well as Armenian, which already does everything for Artsakh.

[MosJan]

RUMORS THAT MEGHRI WILL BE GIVEN TO AZERIS ARE FALSE, SAYS PM

Prime Minister Andranik Margarian completed his working visit to the Syunik marz and the Nagorno-Artsax Republic.

According to the Prime Minister, there was a four-fold increase in the GDP and 31% industrial growth in Syunik this year, following the adoption of the Government’s decision on the development of the Syunik Marz and the Meghri region. The Prime Minister informed that the Government intends to expand the development program to include not only the Meghri region, but the entire marz.

It was noted that one of the most important issues for the marz is the restoration of the irrigation and drinking water systems. The Government has raised some money to restore the internal water supply systems of the cities of Goris and Kapan.

The delegation led by the Prime Minister also visited the village of Lichk near the border, where Prime Minister Margarian gave out real estate privatization certificates to a number of residents. He assured that all the residents of Syunik will receive such certificates by the end of 2002. At the meeting with the local residents, the Prime Minitser noted that the Government will continue its policy of strengthening the region. He said those who circulate false rumors that Meghri will be given to the Azeris simply wanted to get political dividends out of it.

Prime Minister Margarian participated at the ceremony of naming the Meghri border guards military unit after Garegin Nzhdeh, to mark Nzhdeh’s 115th anniversary and the 80th anniversary of proclaiming the Mountainous Armenia.

The delegation also visited the Nagorno Artsax Republic. According to Artsaxi President Arkadi Ghukassian, the negotiations with the Artsaxi President and Prime Minister were productive. According to Ghukassian, the time has passed when Armenia was giving assistance to Artsax unilaterally. Artsax is now prepared for cooperation. The two sides discussed the program of cooperation for 2000-2001. A special group has been set up to oversee the timely implementation of agreements reached by the two parties.

Today, the Prime Minister and his delegation returned to Yerevan.