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Meghri: To exchange or not to exchange


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It was an option suggested by Azeris, Armenians declined it... This will never happen!

quote:
Originally posted by Berj:

The exchange of Meghri will be the end of Armenia.


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quote:
Originally posted by Artur:
It was an option suggested by Azeris, Armenians declined it... This will never happen!



It was an option suggested to the delegation of the National Assembly of Armenia during their meeting in the US Congress. And this makes me think it is a subject of serious discussions. Source: Groong News, Noyan-Tapan
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Actually this idea first has been suggested a few years ago by an american congressman or senator (I don't remember his name) and now I wonder why all talkting about it like it's something new.

This is a nonsence and I'm sure all realize that. Just a political game.

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quote:
Originally posted by Garo:
Actually this idea first has been suggested a few years ago by an american congressman or senator (I don't remember his name) and now I wonder why all talkting about it like it's something new.
This is a nonsence and I'm sure all realize that. Just a political game.


It is called "the Goble plan". Mr. Goble, Paul Goble. As far as I know at present he is the director of RFE Radio Liberty.
Man, I don't think this is a nonsence. People are already leaving Megri. 500 people left only the town of Agarak near Meghri during these two months.
If there are no such plans, our authorities would better pass a law in the National Assembly to prevent anybody, including the President, to have the right to sign under a document of teritorrial swept etc. This would have relaxed the people. But nobody seems to be concerned. They just make statements, which can be tracted differently in the future.

Berj
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I know that Armenian government is far from being perfect,but I hope they still have some brains left.

First we give up Meghri, then what????

It just amazes me how evil the present government can for the poor people!!

Armenia is a great country, but why does it have to be ruled by thieves and retards???

I could do a better job, even being a girl

Tghek, che neghanak, ok

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quote:
Originally posted by Nvard:
I know that Armenian government is far from being perfect,but I hope they still have some brains left.
First we give up Meghri, then what????
It just amazes me how evil the present government can for the poor people!!
Armenia is a great country, but why does it have to be ruled by thieves and retards???
I could do a better job, even being a girl
Tghek, che neghanak, ok


Yerpek chenk neghanalu Nvard I know u'd do a better job, I'd like to see you in the position to do those changes. Look at Naira Melkoumian, smartest person in Artsakh
Armenian women have way more brains than the corrupt politicians, but also this is a sign of the desperation in Armenia. The country is cornered with very few choices and this unthinkable option crossed their minds. But there's a thousand reasons why such an exchange will never happen. Sooner or later the people will open their eyes and see that such a link between Turkey and Azerbaijan is the whole reason for the Armenian Genocide and if it happens, then Armenia will be truly surrounded. But anyway, to keep it short, we can even forget about this issue, lol the Russians will never let it happen. The whole reason that we are so close to them is that we are a buffer zone for Russia's interests. They need us there, separating turkic races, so thats why they bail us out from time to time. This is foolishness on the part of the armenian government to even spend a second discussing such lunacy.
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quote:
Originally posted by Arman D.:
This is foolishness on the part of the armenian government to even spend a second discussing such lunacy. [/b]


That's exactly what I'm talking about. Why are they talking so much? It's a matter of one law passed in the National Assembly to relax the people, especially the Meghri people.
I don't know whether you speak Russian or not, but they have a very cinical phrase "Les rubyat, shepki letyat". And they are really fond of "liberations". When they move all that force trained in Chechnya on Trancaucasia nobody's gonna use nuclears agaist them.
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Patmutyun@ hetevyaln e Vorkanov vor yes gitem .

Yerb 1998 tvakanin levon Ter Petrosyan@ tvets ir hrajarakan@ Heranalu Hayastani Prezidenti pashtonist na katarets hetevyal haytararutyun@ "Shat shutov parz k@darna te ovker en Hayatsani horreri iskakan tsaxorner@"

iyjem kartsum em bavakanin hstakoren parz e sa te ovker en n@rank yev inch n@patakner en hetapndum iys ararknerin.

 

mez haytni "Goble plan" arachar@ yerel e 1991-92 tvakanerin amerikyan Congresmen Paul Goble kormits vorpes Kharabaryan Hartsy lustsman banadzev, vor@ yev Merjvel e Haystani rekavarutyan kormits iyn jamanak.

harts@ norits shoshabvets mek tary arach

April amsin HAyastani yev aynuhetev adrbejani prezidentnei het, Aracharkorner@ yerel en Amerikyan Pashtonyaner ,chnayats iys karki xosaktsutyuner pastoren mer nerkayis prezident Robert Qocharyan@ merjum e.

verchers USA iytselats Hayatsani azgayin jorovi handznajorovneri naxagahneri het , iyt harst@ nuynpes shoshapvel e Pasadenayum katarvats asulisi/handipman jamanak ,

iynuhetev washingtonum USA petakan bajanmunki pashtonyaneri het handipman jamanak Amerikyan kormits arachark e yerrel pashtpanelu Robert Qocharyani Artsaxyan qaraqakanutyun@ vori himkum er Haystani yev adrbejani horataratskneri poxanakman mijotsov lutsel Rarabaryan Horiyin harster@,

vorn er poxanakel Meghrin Karrabari yev Lachini mijantski het.

sakayn Hayastani azgayin jorovi iravakan handznajorovi naxagah Viktor Dallakyan@ patasxanel e Amerikyan kormin hetevyal@.>> Prezident@ Robert Qocharyan@ ` yev voch mi arajark chi arel mez vor menk @endunenk kam chndunenk bayts menak voch mi depkum Hayastani Horrataratsk@ chenk poxanaki Haykakan Horramasi het voronk arten isk mern en yev Patkanum en Haysatani Petutyan <<

veradarnalov Hayastan Azgayin Jorovi nerkayatsutsichner@ barstratsrel en hetevyal harts@ i dems Robert Qocharyani vor irenst Anteryak pahelov Gaxtni banaktsutyuner e unetsel Amerikyan aracharki het kapvats, vori masin voch miyayn azgayin jorovin e anteryak pahel iyl yev iren iskprezident @entrats jorovrtin .

i patasxan jorovrty yev handznajorovi andamneri zaiyruti Robert Qocharyan@ merjum e iyn. yev ir xosnaki mijotsov handznajorovi Hayastan jamanelu hajort or@ hades yekaav Haytararutyamb vor yerpek Amerikyan tarberaki masin xosaktsuytyuner chen yerel yev Hayastani Petutyan Horeri poxanakman Hartser yerbek chi unetsel ink@ .

 

isk Sa bavakanin mets ardzgank e gtel Haykakan yev Rusakan Mamuli edjerum ,ur urrakioren iys depker@ kapvum en Hoktemberi 27 azgayin jorovi depkeri het ur Spanvetsin Rusastani kormits vstahyal yev rusastani het hamagorstktsor petakan gortsichner@ voronk yev dem eyin Robert Qocharyani amerikyan kormnoroshman@yev Haystani Horiynin taratskneri poxanakman@.

Iys aman@ urrakioren kam anurrakioren batsahaytvets Hayastani Azgayin jorovi patvirakutyan Miyatsyal Nahangner iysteleluts heto.

isk inch verabervum e Merghri shrjani Jorovrty gaxtin sa arten sabotaj e @endimutyan kormits ur mi xummb @endimakaner meknel en Meghri yev taratsel hetevyal lur@ vro Robert Qocharyan@ handznum e adrbejanin iyt horatarattsq@.

inchyeve jorovurt@ sut te jisht irents @entanikneri apahovutyan hamar meknum en Meghriits.

iys Haytararutyun@ katarvel er Razmik Davoyan@ kormits Los Angelosi Horizin Tv Harordman jamanak

Razmik Davoyan@ vor@ nviryal Dashnakatsakan e yev Robert Qocharyani Xorhrdakan e

iys amen@ barrtum e yev merradrum @endimutyan@. vor parrraktich gortsorutyuner e varum ,

verchatsnelov ir Tv yeluyts@ vori amborj @entatskum metsarel yev Govasanki xosker er asum Robert qocharyani hastseyin. yev mi krkin angam merjum prezidenti Amerikyan hartsy korm linelu masin.

krknelov mi kani angam vor Robert kocharyan @ dem e Meghrin handznelu yev @enthanrapes iys harts@ yerbek ir kormits chi q@nnarkvum voch adrbejani yev voch el USA mijev .

yev iyspes Amerikyan korm@ asume vro qnnarkvel e robert qocharyani het iys harts@

Adrbejan@ asum e vro patahel e . Qocharyani arachin xorhrdakan@ asum e vro yerpek chi katarvl iydpisy ban isk Robert Qocharyan@ andzamb der chi asel hetevyal@ ir jorovrtin yev kam azgayin jorovin miyayn xosnaki mijotsov .

de hima duk asek ov e jisht kam sut . Robert Qocharyan@ merjelov kartarvats@ te @endimutyun@ vor yerevan e berel iyst jshmartutyun@.

 

yev norits hishenk Levon Ter Petrosyani xosker >>> "Shat shutov parz k@darna te ovker en Hayatsani horreri iskakan tsaxorner@<<< yev ch@morananak te um er dzerk talsi Vazgen Sarkisyani yev Karen Demirjyani Spanutyuner@.

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Well said, Jan Fedai... )

 

Thank you, Berj, for opening up the discussion regarding this topic. Had you not done it, I would have. I would have not only because I'm a political science major, but also because this issue strikes a very personal chord with me. You see, my ancestors moved into Meghri about 300 years ago and my aunts and uncles still live there. Meghri and Agarak are associated with some of the most incredible memories of my childhood (although I was born in Yerevan, we spent our summer vacations in Meghri--I left Armenia at 13).

 

I recently came across an article on this issue in one of the armenian papers and I thought I needed to check my eyes. It was a shock, to say the least. Politically, it'd be one of the greatest mistakes of armenian governments to give up Meghri. If we give up Meghri we give the Azeris a direct link to Naxichevan, a union with their own people. If they are thus united, who knows what they might think of or do next in conjunction with the turks. I also agree that it's a ploy on the part of the current government to divert the people's attention from more pressing matters, such as the economy, etc.

 

Political issues aside, however, I am disgusted by proposition on a very personal level. I place a very strong importance on ancestry and heritage, largely due to the influence of my father. He took special pains to pass the knowledge of our ancestry to his children, and I feel like if I lose Meghri, I lose a part of my soul, a very large part. After all, how will I share the wonderful stories my father tells of my great grandmother who shot two turks and threw them into the "tunir" with my children when there is no direct link to the place where this happened, when there is no Meghri?

....Sadly, for the first time in my life, I'm speechless, at loss for words to describe what I feel and think. There's no way to describe the feeling you get standing on ancestral land, looking over the Arax, at one with your surroundings, at peace with yourself and with the world, it seems. It's indescribable.

 

Hishumem yerp mayis amsin gnumei kailelu dashterum, antsairatsirr yev li guynezguyn tsaghiknerov, yerp kamin shshnjumer akanjis, xaghum mazeris het, yev norits trchum, paxnum; yerp araxi jrere darnumein mi hiaskanch artsatapat savan hampurelov arevi mexm shogherin. Mer arheli zhairere, mer zulal jrere, mer tsaxkepchnere, mer ayginere, mer hoxe, mer Meghrin. Mtatselov ankam vor na karoxe linel urishine indz parzapes hunits hanume.

 

Meghretsineri koxmits asem vor yete iskapes hartse meghrin turkin talun hasni, minchev ankam verchin meghretsin het kga ir tune yev kpaykari minchev verch (aselov sa hishumem im horexpor tune tariner arach--artsaxi paykari zhamank, ir tan amen mi patuhanits mi hranot kaxvats, amen mi hranot "hravirelov" adrbejantsinerin ...sakain chekan...lol) yev chen ga.. Meghretsinere krvogh xavitsen, menk misht kpaykarenk ;o)

 

Ayskane

 

g.s.

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Barev dzez norits

 

iys yerkuor@ bavakanin mtatsum em te inch e atarvum iys hartsy shurj yev gitekinch? shat herru che patasxan@.

Sksenk n@ranist te ov e mer Yerkri Prezident@

Robert Qocharyan .

andznavorutyun vor@ bavakanin karch jamanakum hasav iys pashtonin . uni bavakanin hamakreli andznavorutyun yev vor@ bavakanin n@rbutyamb yev sahun verchin 2 tarineri @entatskum hasnum e IR n@pataknerin. Makrazertselov bolor n@ranst ov kangnats e ir janaparhin.

 

Hajord@ xosaktsutyuner Meghrin handznelu hamar inchpes asetsy veryevum jisht e yerel en sakayn inchu en hima miyayn mejter galsi ?

yev um e dzerk talis sa

 

um e dzerk talsi vor jorovurti ushadrutyun@ lini meghrin?, vor jorovurt@ morrana muys hartseri masin? kam iren kkormits katarvats kam katarvelik Qaraqakan qayleri .

kartsum em bavakanin parz e hents ink@ robert qocharyanin,im kartsikov.

iys situatsyaum miyayn yev miyayn Robert qocharyani shahern en srank yerb amborj jorovurt@ spyurk te Hayastan ushadrutyun darstnen Meghri vra yev voch ir,

urraki @endimadir korm@ bavakanin mets arrmuk bartsratsret iys hartsy shurj yev vori hetevankn er mi xumb Hayeri Maghriits durs gal@.

Meghrin chenk talu yev voch mekn el chi hamadziyni iys anel, sa hertakan qaraqakan korarkum e yev ushadir yerrek mer prezidenty amen qiyilin na bavakanin sahun yev herratses qaraqakan gortsich e , voch miyayn LAV imastov !!!!

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Dear Armenian Cleopatra

 

Eli ekelem yev imanumem vor shaat martikin gu neghatsnem, bayts betke khosem. I am sure your great grandmother shot those Turks in self defense, but is it something to boast about? It is statements like those that gives the Turks fuel for their "Turkish genocide" argument.

 

How different from my great grandfather who owed his life to the kindness of a Turkish family who risked their own life by adopting him and passing him off as their child.

That is what I want to share with my kids! I will teach them about the genocide, all of the brutality that was committed, but will tell them about the many Turks who intervened and saved Armenian lives.

 

I know I strayed from the topic, but so does everyone else! Vunash chuni!

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lol...steve

 

you're right...vnas chuni..

 

but I have to admit: you caught me on an annoying habit i have, the habit of calling azeris turks..(she really shot two azeris )

 

sorry for the confusion

 

I agree with you, however; not all turks are scum )

 

gs

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Sireli Cleopatra

 

God we agree so much! I felt a little wary with my posting, I didn't want it to seem like I was attacking you, in a way, good for your Great grandma! They were probably bastards!

 

You are right, there are many Turks with a heart of gold. They have always been very good to my family personally. My great-grandfather always had more Turkish friends than any other nationality( I remember him because he lived to be 98!) If only their damned fascist government would acknowledge their crimes! Someday though, someday justice will be done!

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Azg/Mirror On-Line

06-07-2000

 

AZG/MIRROR ON-LINE

06-07-2000

 

1) USA Visas to Meghri Residents

 

The weekly Iravunk in its June 6, 2000 issue, while quoting A+1 TV channel,

reported that the US embassy in Yerevan is giving green light to all

residents of the

Armenian region of Meghri who wish to immigrate to USA. A deputy,

elected from Meghri, tells the weekly that there are several

Concerns among the local residents, but no alarming moods.

The region of Meghri is allegedly proposed to be exchanged with

Azerbaijan for Nagorno Karabagh in a final settlement of the

long-lasting conflict.

 

 

Armenian minister says Artsax problem cannot be solved by land swap

 

Snark

5 Jun 2000

 

Yerevan, 5th June: Armenian Foreign Minister Vardan Oskanyan

evaluated as "pure political speculation" puffed up during the

past two months by certain forces in the republic the report that

the Armenian authorities are allegedly intending to resolve the

Nagornyy Artsax problem by a territorial swap between Armenia

and Azerbaijan, and specifically about the possible transfer of

the Megri district of Armenia to the Azerbaijani side.

 

The idea of the territorial swap was raised at high level

Armenian-Azerbaijani meetings, but was primordially rejected by

Armenian President Robert Kocharyan. "This issue is closed. There

is no such issue!" Vardan Oskanyan stated on 4th June in a

TV interview.

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DESPERATE PENSIONERS BLOCK THE HIGHWAY

KAPAN, JUNE 6, ARMENPRESS:

 

Driven to desperation, a large group of pensioners from the town

of Kapan in the province of Syunik blocked for one and a half

hour the highway connecting Kapan with Meghri demanding that

their pensions for the last three months be paid immediately.

 

The governor of Syunik province, the head of local pensions

fund and law-enforcement agencies arrived at the spot to try to

persuade the frustrated old men and women to de-block the road.

 

Surprisingly, the move has resulted in a positive reaction and

the pensioners dispersed after they had been promised to be paid

their pensions for March and April months.

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There is a danger of a war in Armenian with Azeris. And from my point of view if the solution is not found, the territorial swap might the one. I know it is terrible, I know none of us wants to lose Meghri, but the war is worse and problem cannot be solved in this way. Hopefully they will come up with another sollution, we shall see.

 

AA

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the problem is that the Azeris don't seem to be looking forward to any solutions!!!

Living in Russia i watch a lot of political discussions on TV. Every time they show any Azeri politicians they blame Armenia on everything!!!!

the economy level is low 'cause of us!!

people are hungry again, because of Armenians!!The Caspian Sea is getting durty because of Armenia!ETC.

How about that???

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Artur, what you said IS terrible. How can you suggest that a territorial swap is the only solution? YOU, whose brother fought in Artsax???? Why did he risk death in that situation, in that case, if a swap would be preferrable? I realize the political implications of all this, but dare I suggest that we shouldn't be giving up our land for no apparent reason?

 

Mi ban aseluts arach mi kich mtatsi, txa jan.. )...and I say that with a smile, don't take it the wrong way ...kriv chgas vres, ha, nayi...lol..

 

gayanchik

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Artur jan,

 

Firstly, if we give Meghri the Armenian problem is solved. We will become an unimportant landlocked piece of land between a large mass of Turik counties and etnic groups. Turkish business will flood Armenia, and our children will have to go to Turkish schools to find jobs in Armenia. The same with culture and etc.

Secondly, Meghri is a crucial issue for Russia, Iran and China. At least Russia, will use the nucs. I can tell you what will happen if we give Meghri. Russians will remove their base from Gumri and we will be left on our own agaist Turks and Azeris. Then, after a NEW SARDARABAD battle the Russians will come back. But I think that this time they will populate Meghri with Russians.

 

I becoming more and more conviced that our president is working under constant blackmail circumstances.

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If one of you have another sollution, i want to read it.

Azeris will not give the land up for wining the war. Thus, few more months and AKs will be our best friends.

 

Gayane, I will not say anything to an Armenian girl... full stop.

 

 

[This message has been edited by Artur (edited June 20, 2000).]

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THE MILITARY LEADER OF PAKISTAN SUGGESTS SOLVING THE Artsax PROBLEM BY

FORCE

19.06.2000 15.06

19.06.000, MEDIAMAX, YEREVAN. During the closed meeting with Heydar Aliyev, held within the

frameworks of the Summit of the Organization of Economic Cooperation in Teheran, the military leader of

Pakistan General Pervez Musharraf suggested to the President of Azerbaijan the radical way of settling

the Artsax problem. General promised "any military assistance" in returning Artsax.

This was reported on June 16 by the Russian paper "Commersant", which asserts that Musharraf himself

spoke with such statement upon the end of the meeting with Aliyev.

"The ways of solving the Artsax problem are the internal affair of Azerbaijan. Artsax is the constituent

part of that State. Azerbaijan can close that problem by any means pleasing to it", stated Musharraf.

He promised that if Baku chooses the military way of settling the conflict, then Islamabad will render it

military assistance. In that matter the Pakistani leader specified that the question is about any form of

military support up to participation of the Pakistani military on the side of the Azerbaijani army.

In Baku they regarded with attention the "peace-making suggestion" of Pervez Musharraf. The head of the

international department of the staff of the President Novruz Mamedov stated that "Azerbaijan was glad to

hear that Pakistan displays great interest towards Azerbaijan, supports Baku in its fight for the

emancipation of the occupied territories". As regards the military cooperation, then the statement of

Musharraf about the readiness to render military support to Azerbaijan shows that Baku can count on the

serious ally in the settlement of the Artsax issue, said Mamedov

 

de hima asek te Hayastan@ Paterazmi vtangi taka te voch ?

chka sut vori gone kes@ jshmartutyun chi .

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