Anonymouse Posted December 27, 2004 Report Share Posted December 27, 2004 Mouse man, I clearly disagree. I think both man and the woman had to be dependent on each other, but at the same point the woman(I am talking about traditional Armenian marriages) cannot be so dependent that she looses her identity and identifies herself only via her husband and her children. BTW: I am a firm believer that each should have their own bank accounts and a joint one as well. Contributions to the joined one should be made based on the income of each. style_images/master/snapback.png The man and the woman are dependent on each other, but in different ways, is my point since genders are different. If you believe that each should have his/her own bank account then that defeats the whole purpose of a family, united. You might as well not get married and just be live-in partners since that is oh so the fad these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 And I thought that the modern idea of a marriage is to have a companion to share the rest of one's life with. I completely disagree and don't think that love means to be dependent on the other person. style_images/master/snapback.png Anoushik, when you "choose" to love someone, you clearly give up "the control." And when you give up the control, you become dependent on the other person (at least for emotional nourishment). This is the case for both sexes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Anoushik, when you "choose" to love someone, you clearly give up "the control." And when you give up the control, you become dependent on the other person (at least for emotional nourishment). This is the case for both sexes. style_images/master/snapback.png yes and no. you should depend on your soul mate for love and nurishment but not be dependent on him or her where you loose your identity. where you cant make decisions without them. maybe i am not stating it clearly enough, but i just dont like it when Armenian women who are so alive prior to marriage full of life and spunk 'die' within a year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nairi Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I think women generally "lose their idendity" because they will do anything to keep the man in the house. Our biggest fear is abandonment. Men are more detached when it comes to this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 I don't agree with this at all. In my personal experience of my parents: like all parents my parents have had their problems (to the point where I was thinking of a possibility of divorce) and my mom repeatedly has told to my dad that it's OK, he can leave and she'll be fine. My dad didn't. They are the strongest willed people I know, and I especially admire my mom in that regards for her sense of independence, more so when I think about the generation she grew up with. She acquired this sense of independence from another strong woman, my maternal grandmother, and she wants me to be strong and independent when I get married. Being strong doesn't mean being selfish and self-indulgent but it means having a strong character to realize when you have to stand up and defend yourself and your rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 2, 2005 Report Share Posted January 2, 2005 Anoushik, when you "choose" to love someone, you clearly give up "the control." And when you give up the control, you become dependent on the other person (at least for emotional nourishment). This is the case for both sexes. style_images/master/snapback.png This is a great subject! I just wished That I had the time to express my views. Someday! In the meantime, please allow me a brief humorous comment: I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? Being strong doesn't mean being selfish and self-indulgent but it means having a strong character to realize when you have to stand up and defend yourself and your rights. style_images/master/snapback.png Healthier view! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) Giving up "the control" does not mean giving up your identity ... far from it. (I think in a healthy relationship you can strenghten your identity.) It just means your emotional world is intertwined with the other person's emotional world. You constantly feed each other with emotions and become dependent on this flow. Once it's gone you feel emotionaly drained ... but this does not in any way mean that you lose your identity. It's an internal crisis you deal with on your own. The stronger your "self" is ... the smoother is the transition. Edited January 3, 2005 by Sulamita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 This is a great subject! I just wished That I had the time to express my views. Someday! In the meantime, please allow me a brief humorous comment: I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? Healthier view! style_images/master/snapback.png Very humorous ... but it does not pertain to this situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) This is a great subject! I just wished That I had the time to express my views. Someday! In the meantime, please allow me a brief humorous comment: I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? Healthier view! style_images/master/snapback.png Very humorous ... but it does not pertain to this situation. style_images/master/snapback.png Sulamita, I apologize for not taking the time to explain myself, but, eventually, I will: it's inevitable! Please think harder, it really does pertain to the situation! Even the word "polluted" has its relevance! Giving up "the control" does not mean giving up your identity ... far from it. (I think in a healthy relationship you can strenghten your identity.) It just means your emotional world is interwined with the other person's emotional world. You constantly feed each other with emotions and become dependent on this flow. Once it's gone you feel emotionaly drained ... but this does not in any way mean that you lose your identity. It's an internal crisis you deal with on your own. The stronger your "self" is ... the smoother is the transition. style_images/master/snapback.png I had an extremely intense, true and often explosive long term relationship. We both have strong and independent minded - eccentric but tempered - personalities/selves, yet the "transition" has NEVER been smooth, even on the n-th iteration! Edited January 5, 2005 by Siamanto Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) In the meantime, please allow me a brief humorous comment: I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? style_images/master/snapback.png First of all, you don't depend on polluted air, you get used to it. When in love, you depend on the other person for emotional nourishment (as stated above). In a loveless relationship you simply become used to the other person. Edited January 3, 2005 by Sulamita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nané Posted January 3, 2005 Report Share Posted January 3, 2005 (edited) Sulamita, I apologize for not taking the time to explain myself, but, eventually, I will: it's inevitable! style_images/master/snapback.png Please, do take the time ... ... and it is not inevitable in my opinion. Please think harder, it really does pertain to the situation! Even the word "polluted" has its relevance! style_images/master/snapback.png Thanx for the "advise" but when I think too hard I get a headache. I had an extremely intense, true and often explosive long term relationship. We both have strong and independent minded - eccentric but tempered - personalities/selves, yet the "transition" has NEVER been smooth, even on the n-th iteration! style_images/master/snapback.png intense, true and often explosive don't translate to LOVE do they? Edited January 3, 2005 by Sulamita Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 Any "man" who fels they need any sort of control over a woman is infact not much of a man at all, in my opinion. This, however, does not mean that the man should not make his presence known.. as in.. when a man and a woman truly love eachother, they will have to both make various compromises, if anyone does not.. that relathionship will be filled with tension and uneasiness... I think by "submissive" Anonymouse does not mean a zombie.. but one who knows when to speak, and how.. (chape chananchi).. because im sorry if this may sound old fashioned or whatever.. but i know too many women/girls who do not respect their husbands enough to keep their mouth shut when it is not proper to speak.. i wont go into detail there.. Basically to me it comes downt to how much respect the couple has for eachother... submissivness to me means more along the lines of respect then submising to every demand of the "man of the house".. i do not want a girl to be like a slave and talk to me like im her mster and say "what do you want me to do now master".. i want a girl who knows what she should do, and knows when she should not make certain comments.. if there is anything to be discussed.. there is a time and place to do it.. where it will create the least amount of tension between the couple. (that was a rather not so well directed post, just my thaughts on the matter) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 (that was a rather not so well directed post, just my thaughts on the matter) style_images/master/snapback.png I would say that this was a completely false post rather than a "not so well directed" one, given that once you labled one of your non-Armenian dates "a whore". Or did you reorient in just a couple of months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasun Posted January 4, 2005 Report Share Posted January 4, 2005 I would say that this was a completely false post rather than a "not so well directed" one, given that once you labled one of your non-Armenian dates "a whore". Or did you reorient in just a couple of months? style_images/master/snapback.png Armen, I think I know what you mean, I was also surprised of the post couple of months back. But it was a misunderstanding as I clarified it with Gevo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I would say that this was a completely false post rather than a "not so well directed" one, given that once you labled one of your non-Armenian dates "a whore". Or did you reorient in just a couple of months? style_images/master/snapback.png Armen, i think you need to take a chill pill.. anyone else make that joke it would have been perfectly understood.. i went and cleared it up. And your response has nothign to do with the main points of my post.. Compromise and Respect. i get this feeling you hate me ? its almost funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anonymouse Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 (edited) I think by "submissive" Anonymouse does not mean a zombie.. but one who knows when to speak, and how.. (chape chananchi).. because im sorry if this may sound old fashioned or whatever.. but i know too many women/girls who do not respect their husbands i want a girl who knows what she should do, and knows when she should not make certain comments.. if there is anything to be discussed.. there is a time and place to do it.. where it will create the least amount of tension between the couple. (that was a rather not so well directed post, just my thaughts on the matter) style_images/master/snapback.png This is a very eloquent summation of my exact sentiments my friend. Edited January 5, 2005 by Anonymouse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azat Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I think by "submissive" Anonymouse does not mean a zombie.. but one who knows when to speak, and how.. (chape chananchi).. because im sorry if this may sound old fashioned or whatever.. but i know too many women/girls who do not respect their husbands i want a girl who knows what she should do, and knows when she should not make certain comments.. if there is anything to be discussed.. there is a time and place to do it.. where it will create the least amount of tension between the couple. Gevo if everything you said here can apply to men as well then I have no issue with it. However my problem is when we think that women should be this and that and do things in some specific way and we(you and I) can do as we please. This leads to men who think we are always right and they are always wrong and should just shut up and be submissive. Anywho, submissive is boring anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Azat jan submissive'i HAyeren@ vor mekna ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Gevo if everything you said here can apply to men as well then I have no issue with it. However my problem is when we think that women should be this and that and do things in some specific way and we(you and I) can do as we please. This leads to men who think we are always right and they are always wrong and should just shut up and be submissive. Anywho, submissive is boring anyways. style_images/master/snapback.png everything applies to both genders.. i have always tried the equality thing.. though in some things it most literally cant be.. in most areas of life, and socializing it very well can. So, you shouldnt have any problem it applies for both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 And your response has nothign to do with the main points of my post. Compromise and Respect. i get this feeling you hate me ? its almost funny. style_images/master/snapback.png Gevo, my reponse has everything to do with your main points because if you don't apply what you preach you're not speaking out of experience. That's why I said it was "false" not "wrong". I can connect to lot of things you've said... I take my words back if your post months ago was a misunderstanding. It would be ugly even as a joke. That's one thing I realy hate about Armenian social habits. I don't hate you, I barely know you but some of your posts I remember for long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 Gevo, my reponse has everything to do with your main points because if you don't apply what you preach you're not speaking out of experience. That's why I said it was "false" not "wrong". I can connect to lot of things you've said... I take my words back if your post months ago was a misunderstanding. It would be ugly even as a joke. That's one thing I realy hate about Armenian social habits. I don't hate you, I barely know you but some of your posts I remember for long time. style_images/master/snapback.png WOW< out of the prhaps hundrd of thousands of posts i have seen and thaught vulgar and not right, out of the million comments from al the other people here, i say one thing that called a friend awhore, all in a joke.. and this is what happens? lol.. wel.. i don tknow what to say.. But calling people whores is far. FAAAAAAR from my social habbits... it seems that joke was very much misplaced and misunderstood.. anywho. I still dont see what your initial response has to do with my previous post??? I dont see what i said would be considered "bad"... or any such thing.. care to expand your thaughts a little bit, in the effort to lessen the confusion? and perhaps allow myself to illustrate my thaughts on this matter a little better///? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allarmeniangirl Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 What I don't like: A man comes home from work and his wife gives him a TV dinner because she is working on some project for her job or well, whatever. There are men who want to be in control of women because they think low of women. There are men who want their wives to be housewives. As in, the man brings the paycheck and the woman sits at home takes care of the child, cooks and cleans and the husband barely sepnds any time with the kids. A man who wants his wife to be a housewife, but it doesn't mean that he does not appreciate her work or that he dooesn't love her. I'll just describe how I like it to be. Both the man and the woman have jobs. Both parents devote the same amount of time and love to their children. Neither of the partners have control over the other. The man does not cook. I don't know about you guys, but to see a guy in the family cook while the woman does manly chores like fix stuff around the house, is pretty funny to me. Whether we (women) like it or not, men are physically stronger than women. I don't know, but I just like the idea of a woman being feminine. Ever seen those women who are so rugged and physically strong that they just look manly. However when a woman is sick it is sweet when her husband cooks and helps around the house. Same would go when the man is sick but I doubt any man is going to allow his wife (partner) do heavy things because they are gentlemen. lol. P.S. I didn't read what you guys wrote. Just wrote what I wanted to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armen Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 WOW< out of the prhaps hundrd of thousands of posts i have seen and thaught vulgar and not right, out of the million comments from al the other people here, i say one thing that called a friend awhore, all in a joke.. and this is what happens? lol.. wel.. i don tknow what to say.. That's because I care for you Gevo. See, and you say I hate you ... But calling people whores is far. FAAAAAAR from my social habbits... it seems that joke was very much misplaced and misunderstood.. anywho. I still dont see what your initial response has to do with my previous post??? I dont see what i said would be considered "bad"... or any such thing.. care to expand your thaughts a little bit, in the effort to lessen the confusion? and perhaps allow myself to illustrate my thaughts on this matter a little better///? style_images/master/snapback.png Again, if you practice what you've said, I don't have anything to add cause I agreed to what you said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gevo27 Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 That's because I care for you Gevo. See, and you say I hate you ... Again, if you practice what you've said, I don't have anything to add cause I agreed to what you said. style_images/master/snapback.png De mihat ari mer yan laaav xemenk harpenk (yes voch xemoxem vochel harpox).. ... lav lav.. mikichel xorovats kanenk.. sovats che mernenk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siamanto Posted January 5, 2005 Report Share Posted January 5, 2005 I love the - polluted - air that I breath and I obviously depend on it. Shall I stop breathing? style_images/master/snapback.png First of all, you don't depend on polluted air, you get used to it. When in love, you depend on the other person for emotional nourishment (as stated above). In a loveless relationship you simply become used to the other person. style_images/master/snapback.png Sulamita, I know that my statement was somehow "open ended," but I have to say that your interpretation is not even close to what I intented to mean! Please, do take the time ... ... and it is not inevitable in my opinion. style_images/master/snapback.png I will, but not anytime soon! Sorry! Thanx for the "advise" but when I think too hard I get a headache. style_images/master/snapback.png Another "advice:" Humor is the oxygen of the mind, it helps fighting "migraines" and recommended for a longer life: 100, 101! intense, true and often explosive don't translate to LOVE do they? style_images/master/snapback.png It is NOT meant to mean that " intense, true and often explosive do translate to LOVE ." Not at all! That was simply a descriptive BACKGROUND! The emphasis was on: "We both have strong and independent minded...personalities/selves, yet the "transition" has NEVER been smooth, even on the n-th iteration!" As a reply to your statement: It's an internal crisis you deal with on your own. The stronger your "self" is ... the smoother is the transition. style_images/master/snapback.png Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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