Hayastan vs. Diaspora

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by alpha:
The people in Armenia who are in control, may see Diaspora as a threat to their interests.

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Not only the people who are in control but lot of ordinary people view Diaspora's involvement as threat. Countries whose political and economic interests collide in Transcaucasus are using their respective Armenian Diaspora to influence the developments in Armenia (just follow the news about Arkadi Vardanyan). And this ongoing process tears the country apart.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

If you don't mind, please give us your cut on Arkady Vardanyan and the people around him. I don't remember this name. Where did he come from?

[Guest]

MJ,

He is a Yerevan born Armenian businessman. Currently a Russian national. He is believed to be one of the richest Armenians in Russia. I think everybody followed the news about the demonstrations and his arrest. Most people that go after him, will go after anybody who's in opposition to govt. Because there is virtually no official opposition.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

But is it normal that a national of a foreign country organizes demonstrartions in Armenia?

 

Who cares what's his last neme?

[Guest]

Well if you ask me, it's completely abnormal. In my opinion any foreign national, including the diasporians, must be banned from this kind of activites. Because diasporians, especially the rich ones, bring the interest of their country of citizenship with them and lobby (or worse) the intersts of that country. But the banning must be equal for all disporians. No favourites. Or else we'll be torn apart.

[Guest]

I think your comment may especially be true in the case of the guy mentioned above. If he is a rich Armenian in Russia, he should have several skeletons in his closet. The only way he could become rich in Russia, I think, is through collaboration with the local and federal law enforcement and counter intelligence services.

 

It would be very easy to make him do the things that his bosses would like to see him do.

[Guest]

MJ,

I see what you're saying, but in my view, in any country there is a certian limit after which money becomes political category. And despite of the ways of earning that money, if one is going to invest in Armenia from abroad, he's going to follow the policies of his country of citizenship, which can possibly cause harm to the interests of Armenia.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

I think your last statement on investing and following the policy of ones country is a bit strong. If I wanted, per se, to invest in Armenia, there is nothing that the Government of USA may do to influence me, unless I am investing in questionable areas, like drug trafficking business, prostitution, slavery, etc...

 

But, again, the question may be how have I gotten the wealth I posses. Is there anything illegal in my past for which they can nail me.

 

In the US it is possible to become wealthy in one generation without engaging in criminal activities.

[Guest]

MJ,

If Armenia is not US sided they can declare us a rogue state and sanction you. It depends on how much money you're investing. If it's gonna completely rebuilt our economy but leave us Russian sided they'll find the way to stop you.

[Guest]

Berj,

 

I understand your concerns, but I think you are pushing it a little too far. It would be hard to declare Armenian as a rogue state, if it is not.

[Guest]

GOVERNMENT PLEDGES HELP TO DIASPORA BUSINESSMEN

YEREVAN, NOVEMBER 13, ARMENPRESS:

Armenian foreign ministry and the Hayastan Pan-Armenian Fund brought

together all Diaspora benefactors and businessmen on November 10 at the

Armenian foreign ministry to look into problems hindering expansion of

their businesses in Armenia. It is worth mentioning that many of these

businessmen have settled down in Armenia bringing here their families.

 

"I think that such meetings, which show that the government is encouraging

investments in the economy, will give a new incentive to industrial

development of Armenia," foreign minister Vartan Oskanian told the

participants.

 

In his words, bringing together both local and Diaspora businessmen pursues

two goals - first, to help them establish contacts and second- to show and

assure that business running in Armenia enjoys the government's protection.

 

Armenia's president Robert Kocharian also attended the meeting. He had

private talks with many businessmen over the obstacles hindering business

development, which, according to them are imperfection of tax and banking

systems and excessive bureaucracy.

[Guest]

The following official site may be interesting:

http://www.armeniadiaspora.com/

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by MJ:
Berj,

I understand your concerns, but I think you are pushing it a little too far. It would be hard to declare Armenian as a rogue state, if it is not.

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MJ,
Not as rogue as Irak or N. Korea, but as rogue as Belorussia for example.

[Guest]

OK, Berj. But in what way the US may hinder investing in Belorussia?

[Guest]

MJ,

I just gave the example of Belorussia as a level of status for rogue state. There can be no comparison in invesment policies between Armenia and Belorussia. We're discussing Armenia as a nation which has a significant diaspora willing (I think still) to invest.

[Guest]

Not sure how accurate it is, but here's a US Dept of Commerce investment climate summary from 1999:

 

http://www.tradeport.org/ts/countries/arme...ia/climate.html

[Guest]

Berj,

 

All I am saying is that if I want to invest in Armenia, there is nothing that the US can do to prevent me from doing it. Even if I would like to invest in Iran, which is considered to be a rogue state, the preventive measure will step in if the total amount of investments exceeds $25 millions.

[Guest]

MJ,

Every country has a certain amount of behind the scenes politics, including the US. And one can find out what they do to prevent wealthy people from investing in undesirable areas and industries only after you have $25mln. And it's not discussed in media. Any country's media is free only to a certain degree.

MJ, would you invest in Armenia under the circumstances of constant strong russian presence in our politics and economy.

[Guest]

quote:

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Originally posted by Berj:
MJ, would you invest in Armenia under the circumstances of constant strong russian presence in our politics and economy.

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I think so. But, you know, I am not a big fish, and my potential investments won't make any difference in Armenia, other than improving the lives of few selected guys.(: But I think that the big fishes also may invest small amounts at a time. But even the small amounts may make big difference in people's life in Armenia.

I see two promising areas of investment in Armenia - IT and Microelectronics. One can start slow, and increase the volume gradually.

But the problem is not the US, not Russia. The problem is the mentality of the people in Armenia (not of all of the people). There is no proper legislative climate, and there is no proper understanding of what "doing business" means. We may need another 10 years to establish a healthy climate.

Who knows, may be it can be done faster...

But there is a need of risk-takers, who will come first, succeed, and open the doors for others to come in.

[Guest]

MJ,

In case we have internal and external stability, IT and Microelectronics' industries will develop in Armenia anyway. But they can't serve as economic basis. In my view our economy must first and formost renovate, re-equip and develop the former processing monopolies: rubber, diamonds, aluminium, copper, molibdenium etc. Well with diamonds, as always, it went very easy. An Israeli company bought the "Shoghakn" diamond cutting plant, the largest taxpayer. They are going to invest to create more jobs, beacause the plant was already exporting to Europe when they bought it.

 

I agree that the guys who own the major capital in Armenia know very little about business. For them the world ends in Dubai (currently a very popular place for our "businessmen"). I don't think they even know what "development funds" means in their company's business plan (if they have it). It's like: "I have my daily barbeque and I'm happy. They still think that the word "capital" means "cash money". They still think that Bill Gates works to become rich, in case when he works just for working.

 

But the investment climate and the legislature are still connected with regional politics.

 

[This message has been edited by Berj (edited November 16, 2000).]

[Guest]

Berj,

 

I agree with you in general terms. But I am somewhat hesitant to agree that Armenia should orient itself towards the reprocessing of cooper, molybdenum, robber, etc. First of all, I think our resources of these materials are not all that impressive. Second, the reprocessing is a way of survival for third world countries. I have no problems accepting that these industries may or should be parts of overall Armenian Economy, but I think it would be a mistake to orient the economy towards these industries.

 

We have to always take into consideration the transportation constraints and the tariffs. We are not in an advantageous position to transport large volumes of industrial output. It would be hard to compete due to these constraints.

[Guest]

Hello Folks

First time on. Very interesting. Never been to Armenia.Icame to United States at the age of 12. At that time if you heard someone speak Armenian on the street you stopped and introduced yourself and usually made friends.

I came from Romania and The Bulgarians were emigrating with us at the same time. We encountered the same attitudes from the Amerigahai community.

We survived and got over it.

Someobservations. My grandparents were Turkish speaking armenians from Giligia.

My father and all his brothers married non Armenians. So I'm a halfbreed and all the subcultural/psychologigal baggage that goes

with that.I speak near fluent Armenian because my father compensated for his guilt feelings about having married an "odar" by sending me to an Armenian seminary for one scholastic year. I married an "odar" too. So now my two beautiful boys 10 &11 yr old are

1/4 Armenian, 1/4 French, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 German, 1/8 Romanian. However I feel very Armenian, sing in the Armenian church choir

subscribe to the Armenian Paper and follow the politics. I contemplate sending the boys

to Armenia so they can learn Armenian, but have not yet worked out the logistics. I am not aware of any boarding schools there.

Yes, I have some very fond memories of my early childhood in Romania, and I feel very Romanian when I'm among Romanians. (for your benefit "from Iran") It's a bonding thing.

If you place a kitten in a litter of dogs, that cat will grow up to think its a dog, and the dogs's maternal instinct takes over and accepts and feeds the kitten.

What do you expect of people. Iranians have been kind to Armenians. Romanians have been very kind too. Sowe like them. That doesn't dimminish our Armenianness.

I hope that I helped someone in a small way.

E.D.

[Guest]

Edward Demiraiakian-Jan Welcome to HyeForum -

>> So now my two beautiful boys 10 &11 yr old are

1/4 Armenian, 1/4 French, 1/4 Scottish, 1/8 German, 1/8 Romanian. However I feel very Armenian, sing in the Armenian church choir

subscribe to the Armenian Paper and follow the politics. I contemplate sending the boys

to Armenia so they can learn Armenian, but have not yet worked out the logistics. I am not aware of any boarding schools there.<<

 

Good lock to you Barekam !!!

Movses

[Guest]

Welcome Edward!

 

I'm in almost an identical boat as you, except I really envy your "Armenian-ness".

 

My son is 1/4 Armenian, 1/4 Italian and 1/2 Anglo-Saxon (i.e., English, Irish, Scottish), although based on our household he's simply American-Armenian. There are no other influences, really.

 

Mike

[Guest]

Ov vor hayastanym chi tsnvel, please don't call anyone "gexatsi" . All u guys talk about is "gextasi", what about the intiligentsian hayastani? especially Yerevani kentronym aprox mardkants. Erevi saxt moratselek ha menk inch nkarichnerenk ynetsel? kam inch kinoderassaner, kam vopshe hayastani bartsr ysymm@, vor amerikatsyn ha@ ktsali kdni jeb@ ira ysymov inch vor hayastanyma statsel (also during the Soviet period). So, please mi xosatsek en baneri masin vor gaxapar chynek te incha katarvym hayastanym, aprelov yrish erkrym, haerenikits dyrs. Es inks shat yraxem vor es hastretsi et ameninch@ tesnem ev en tarikymei vor haskanymei et bolor@, dra hamar ints dyr chi galis vor saxt xosymek "haystani gexatsiytian" masin, sarkelov voxch hayastan@ gextsi.

Im kartsikov dyk vochmekt chekel shbvel hayastani inteligentsiai het, dramar your mind isn't expanded et temai shyrj.

True that hima et lav mardik shaterenen gnatsel yrish erkrner, baits nynpes shater@ mnatselen.

so imatsek yerevantsinerin heto beranert batsek, negativ baner aselov.

Te erevi dykek spurkahaer@ intelegent???? Lselov arabakan y tyrkakan tsevi musicner, hena es tesnymem Tv ov inch makardaka spurkahaeri erger@. etc.

I'm not trying to disrespect anyone, because I respect anyone who call's him/herself armenian, but i'm trying to open up your eyes to reality & to the truth.