who read the bible and try to do whats in written?who's a re

[armeniangirl83]

Hello everybody,

 

The most here are christians or say that they are.

My family goes to the church when it's christmass or when anybody died.

When i ask:"are you a christian?" They say:"of course, we are Armenians and all Armeniasn are christian."

So my question is:who is a real christian? I mean (try) do whats written in bible???

 

Ok, greetings.

[shiner]

armeniangirl83,

Your question is very vast and it is hard to find a short convincing answer. I don't think it is as easy as asking someone "What's your favorite color?" and them answering "Blue". The cliche, typical answer is "Anyone who accepts Jesus as their lord and savior is a Christian". But what does this really mean? If I was to say "I accept Jesus as my lord and savior" would that make me a Christian? I can also say "I'm 7 feet tall" and that would not change my height. What does the word accept mean? Does it mean living your life exactly the way Jesus preaches you to? Or does it mean doing everything you want to do, and then apoligizing for your sins at night? But how can you truly be sorry for doing something you don't regret and that you consciously plan on doing again?

 

It probably means "try to live your life exactly according to Jesus' teachings, and should you sin INVOLUNTARILY Jesus will be there to SAVE you, as a result of you having accepted him as your lord and savior"

But by this definition the number of true Christians in the world could be counted on my right hand. Most people cuss, drink, lust, get jelous, angry, greedy, etc. When you casually say "Fu** you!" or casually think of an attractive member of the opposite sex, do you do it only after really trying to refrain yourself. Do you really regret it and vow never to do it again, or do you just do it again as part of you daily routine? Most people can't even remember every single time they think of some hot chick or fine guy, or get drunk at a party, or cuss someone out, etc. (me included, not that I'm that bad, just normal )

 

Does it mean being baptized as a child, when you are less than one year old? This is a custom in Orthodox and Catholic churches, Armenian ones included. Does this custom alone (which you have no say in at the time) make you a Christian forever, regardlees of your lifestyle and beliefs later on?

 

 

In addition, as a true Christian, you believe in eternal afterlife, in Heaven or Hell. This is the major implication of the word "savior"

 

To conclude in my opinion this is an extremely complicated philosophical question.

 

BTW when I wrote "you" in my post I was refering to humans in general, not armeniangirl83 or anyone in particular.

 

[ March 11, 2001: Message edited by: BTac ]

[Gayane]

I, being much more practical and much less philosphical in nature than BTac will readily answer, NOT ME!

[Kazza]

Well, I practice some of the things the bible preahes. Some people do it natually without even trying.

 

BTac, when you go on to say, from the sentence "the number of people who are true practicing christians I could count on my right hand"? on for there. I am not accusing, just asking. In that paragraph you give the impression that you think all the things mentioned in it are sins. I think some of them definatley are. Some others are, as you say just human. Of course some of the things are innapropriate given certain circumstances. You dont want to make youself into an idiot. but if you are with company you like and trust, (or if you are like one of my friends refine cussing into an art form) It cant all be bad! Getting a bit drunk, as long as you dont harm anyone, thinking of someone fine of the opposite sex, these things are part of life! It's beautiful and natural, not sinful. Only when in wrong ways that it might harm others then it's sinful. As long as you going go "oi F*** face F*** you" to strangers.

 

[ March 12, 2001: Message edited by: Kazza ]

[Kazza]

So if god GAVE us the pleasures in this life is it sinful to enjoy them?

[shiner]

Kazza,
You are right that many things mentioned are very normal, natural, and unharmful to others. By that theory they should not be sins. But technically speaking they are (don't get me wrong, I'm not all that religious). Why? I don't know. I wish someone better informed could answer this. One theory is that even if those things are not harmful to others they are harmful to yourself. Another theory is that your body is the temple of God and you would not want to do anything to make it impure, no matter how minute that action is.

Furthemore, another idea is that the bible teaches us to behave in such a way as to contribute to the betterment of society (this idea is kind of controversial as far as I know). In this case the definition of sin is very universl and clearly defined. In this case there is no such thing as "a little drunk", or "cussing jokingly", or "lusting naturally". Drinking is drinking, cussing is cussing, lusting is lusting, and they are all sinful. Afterall "a little drunk" to you is not the same as "a little drunk" to me, what might be a joke to you is not a joke to me, etc. Who are we to judge and set boundaries on what's exceptable and what's not? By this theory only God can do that.

As I said before, I speak from the point of view of a person who doesn't know much and is searching for answers. I don't necessarily agree or disagree with any theories concerning religion. One day I hope to have clear personal opinions.

[shiner]

Another question to which I don't see a very clear answer. Why would God make something feel great and then expect you to refrain? If getting drunk is harmful, bad, etc. why would God allow it to exist in the first place?

Could it be that it is just a test of faith? Is it a mode for Him to distinguish who is faithful and who is not, by watching how each individual handles the challenge of not getting drunk? I don't know.

[Kazza]

I will answer in greater detail tommorrow-I am tired.. ,

but I just want to add before I go, I DO NOT think it's ok to make a fool of yourself, or behave in ways which are sinful and harms other people! I think if you are silly enough not to watch out for your own saftey, if you drink too much especially being a woman who is not very big-you can land yourself into all sorts of trouble. And it's not as if you can say you didn't know any better, being an adult who should know what you are doing.

 

If you also behave like that you make others. men and women, think a lot less of you too and quite right.

 

I think it's a bit rich if others say; "if anly society bahves itself better" if you dont do right yourself..

 

What I was actually talking about was these things, having a little drink, a little cuss, AT HOME with friends, a bit of a laugh, in moderation. Everyone should be able to have the freedom to be doing that.

 

But like I say, more tommorrow, I am very tired!

[Pilafhead]

Many sins are self-defined. The Bible intentionally has such "grey areas" for each person to determine their own understanding. Doesn't Paul say somewhere in the New Testament: "If you think it is a sin, then for you it is a sin"? Obviously paraphrased.

 

[ March 13, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ]

[Pilafhead]

Here it is. Romans 14:14 from the New Standard Version:

 

I know and am persuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but it is unclean for any one who thinks it unclean.

[Pilafhead]

Literally, it would be one who follows and tries to live by the teachings of Christ. Christ's message in the New Testament is "love." I would think in its simplest form, being a Christian just means living a life of love. Love for yourself, your family, friends, neighbors and most of all strangers.

[MJ]

Love for the Lord is supposed to come first, however, and then, you have to be able to love your enemy - not just the strangers.

In fact, I think the real love for the Lord would suffice, since the rest of it would be automatic.

[shiner]

I think that real love for the Lord should be accompanied by a certain behavior which expresses that, and that distinguishes real love from superficial love. By "a certain behavior" I don't mean "perfect behavior" but one in which the person at least honestly tries to live by Jesus' teachings. What use is it to say you love the Lord and then do everything He stands against while completely forgetting about Him? How many people possess that certain behavior through which they genuinely express their love?

 

One argument might be that behavior doesn't matter and it is all in your heart. But the truth of the matter is if you really love someone you wouldn't do things that would hurt them without really feeling bad while doing them. Would anyone do something that causes their beloved mother/father/spouse/child pain without feeling bad while doing it?

 

So who is it that truly loves the Lord? How can those people be distinguished from the ones that only superficially love Him?

 

Furthermore, I think that the reason God would want you to behave in a certain way is that so you could do yourself good. One reason for accepting God into your life is to have a "better life" (I don't mean material things) yourself (a life that is not possible to attain without His presence regardless of who you are). But what good does accepting God do you and/or Him if you continue to behave in the same manner as someone who doesn't fear God at all?

[levonyeshilian]

Which religion tells you 'hate'?....I can't understand why any religion is needed if you don't ever practise against the 10 commandments and all the sins else...

[MJ]

Levon, I for example, don't thing that the religion is needed.

 

However, some people do consider it being a necessity, not necessarily tying it with the existence of deity. For them it is a system of morals. For these people, who are the majority, the issue of a deity is not essential.

 

For others, the religion is

irrelevant, and what is important is their "personal relationship" with deity.

 

There is another category of people, too, which does accept that a deity may in principle exist, however these people don't claim having "personal relationship" with the deity, and are in search.

 

There are perhaps several other categories of people, who one or another way give consideration to these issues.

[shiner]

The need of religion is another interesting topic. If you are a very good person, who coincidentally lives the life the Bible preaches, but as an atheist, you are not guaranteed eternal afterlife in Heaven. I think other religions preach the same, in their versions of eternal life. So why would someone who lives a very good, humble life, even by Christian standards, but happens to be an atheist or of another religion, be condemmned to spend eternity in Hell? It seems as if doing the right thing is not enough, but the right thing has to be done in the name of Jesus.

 

Furthermore, it seems unfair because many people don't have the opportunity to know Jesus. Those in Western societies do, but in other countries people don't even have religious freedom. One answer is that everyone will be judged according to the number of opportunities they've had to know Christ. So someone in Iran will be judged more leniantly than someone in Vatican City. Similarly young kids will be judged less leniantly than adults. But this seems to be a very manmade answer. It could be right, but I don't know how credible this is, since it seems a human interpretation in an effort to make sense out of a very difficult question.

[TigrannesIII]

I think God will forgive those who are denied the opportunity to accept Jesus (culture conflict, lack of understanding, etc.). The Bible leaves some latitude for this.

[shiner]

I'm glad we are on the same page. Let's say that drinking is a sin (some argue saying that Jesus himself drank wine, and there is drinking of wine in Catholic churches,etc.). But it is widely accepted that drinking is a sin. So if I was to invite a "true Christian" to dinner and offer him a glass of wine or beer with his meal, should they refuse in the name of the Lord? (priests don't even do that, but in my opinion a "true Christian" should based on what I make of this whole issue as of right now).

BTW my question is adressed to the forum not MJ in particular.

[TigrannesIII]

Drinking is not a sin, drunkeness is a sin because it is an altered state of how God made you. Having a beer is fine, my church sells it at its Armenian Festivals. The Armenian Church also uses wine during Communion. Christ's first miracle was making wine from water.

[levonyeshilian]

The ones who speak like Pope,

Religion is a kind of culture,and it's for those who need peace of mind and for those who need to confess for their sins....

I can't ever believe that Christians will have eternal life in heaven but the Hinduists will not.....

Isn't any man equal in God's jurisdiction?

If so God would send the clons of Jesus to any land to make them be Christian....Please don't act like God(but like a human) and be a good human living...This is all religions and holy beliefs tell us....

[shiner]

Levon,
Yes, it is hard to believe that Hindus, Musilms, and others won't have eternal life in Heaven (if there is a Heaven) ESPECIALLY since the average Musilm and Hindu is much more humble and "sinless" than the average Christian. But this mentality is part of the Christian doctrine. That's what missionaries are for (according to them they are doing people a major service by converting them). And I think, though not sure, that other religions feel similarly. Afterall a devout Musilm probably thinks that a Christian won't have the benefits of afterlife, as a result of not having accepted Allah, and Mohamed.

[shiner]

Tigrannes,or anybody,

Even if "less filling, tastes great" would you expect a "true Christian" not to get drunk as a result of being a true Christian?

Or at least would you expect him to feel bad about drinking as he is drinking, and truly show remorse afterwards?

[TigrannesIII]

haha

that's just a joke, I was born in the beer capital of America. At baseball games one part of the crowd would chant 'LESS FILLING!' and the other part of the crowd would yell 'TASTES GREAT!'

I don't drink(too young), but I can tolerate other people drinking responsibly.

[shiner]

So you were born in Millwakee? By the way isn't that the particular slogan for Miller Lite? Maybe not. While I can't top Millwakee, I must say that Texas is the home of Miller Lite. Texas accounts for over 10% of the beer consumened in the U.S. , while it's population is less than 6% of the U.S.

[Pilafhead]

You don't have to be a model, to recognize a model You'd be amazed at how some non-believers lead a "Christian Life" (my wife). Can't be that unbelievable since many "Christians" lead quite a secular life.

BTW, just because I am a non-believer does not mean I do not believe everyone should lead a Christian lifestyle (are there enough negatives in this sentence! ). The world would be a much better place if everyone did.

[ March 14, 2001: Message edited by: Aghmug ]