Jewish Problem

[Kaan]

I have been reading the Armenian opinions about the Jews and I have surprisingly seen that the Armenians have a strong obsession with the Jews. I wonder if the Armenians or any of them has a solution for their "Jew" and also a solution for their "Turk" problem. In other words what will you do when you have the infinite power?

 

Thanks from now for your kind answers.

[Sip]

Which jews are you talking about? http://zr2.cs.ucla.edu/hf/confused.gif Russian jews? East European Jews? Israellis? American Jews? Even in the US we have probably more kinds of jews than I can count (I am not that good in counting anyway). Oh and then after you answer that, which Armenians are you talking about? Armenian-Armenians? Russian Armenians? Iranian Armenians? Turkish-Armenians? Lebonian-Armenians? European Armenians? Armenians in the US? Even then, those who just got here, those who have been here from the genocide era ... you get the point

 

In any case, good luck in your quest! If I could say anything helpful about your dilemma, it would be that you are asking a VERY vague and a VERY generic question. Any good answer you get, will most likely reflect that

 

Welcome to the forum by the way!

 

[ September 23, 2002, 02:50 AM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[nairi]

I don't think obsession is the right word. More like, international relations. Jews happen to play a part in international relations, and this reflects on Armenian affairs as well. The only "solution" we have for our mutual problems is open recognition and condemnation of the Armenian Genocide, which the Israeli and Turkish governments are openly and unashamedly denying today. Most Armenians I know are neither anti-Turkish, nor anti-Jewish.

 

As for infinite power: I personally hope that no one, and no country or nation, will ever be given sole infinite power. Hence, if I was ever given infinite power, I would share it with the rest of the world.

 

Nairi

[Sip]

[ September 23, 2002, 03:34 AM: Message edited by: Sip ]

[MJ]

Kaan,

 

First, welcome to the Hye Forum, where there is an "in" but no "out."

 

There are indeed Armenians who are obsessed with the Jews. They are a very small but very loud minority - as everywhere else.

 

Throughout history, a lot of people have seen Jews as "conspiracy;" This is a very easy way out of complicated situations - if there is something you cannot explain and it is beyond your comprehension, blame Jews or allege Jewish conspiracy, or at least a Freemason conspiracy. Lately, it is being replaced by "American conspiracy."

 

Clearly, this has not been invented by Armenians.

 

How has it arrived to the Armenian scene, however? I think in four different ways:

 

1. Jews have brought it themselves by their complacency in the massacres of Armenians in the late 19th century and through their opposition to the Armenian Independence;

 

2. A lot of Diaspora Armenians are born and raised in Arab countries where they have been treated very well;

 

3. The Russian counter-intelligence services have been very consistent for decades cultivating the idea of worldwide "Jewish conspiracy;"

 

4. The shameless position of the government of Israel on the subject of the Armenian Genocide.

 

I cannot think of any other serious reasons.

 

P.S. I just noticed that you have placed this thread under the Genocide subforum. Any particular reason?

 

[ September 23, 2002, 09:14 AM: Message edited by: MJ ]

[gamavor]

KAAN, (sorry, but to me your name sounds like sadistic abbreviation),

 

What would you like to hear as an answer to your question? That the best turk/jew is the dead turk/jew? He-He-He...

[Arpa]

Yes, Kaan, welcome.

BTW. Are you Jewish or a donme? You don't have to answer that.

You use the word "obssession" in describing the Armenians' preoccupation with the Jews. At the present. I say that, you will see

why.

I have also used words like "obssession" when talking about the Armenians' preoccupation with the Jews and Judaism. You may

look up some of my posts addressing that. You will also see some posts by some of our correspondents who wish they were Jews.

You will find very little neutral and sober views when it comes to Armenians and Jews. Whatever the tone or the spirit I wish it would

stop and I wish that we would speak about ourselves and look within us. In any case, I wish we talk about the Jews no more than

they talk about us. Did you say, zero times, never?Could we limit our reference to Jews ato as many times as we refer to the Aleuts of Alaska and aborigines of Australia, since our kinship is is no closer than that.

Armenians are very poor players, they fail at the game of diplomacy and politics, they fail at propaganda and publicity. They have

never been good at any of those games, ever. They have failed miserably and in so doing they have lost everything, and they are in

grave danger of losing what is left of them and their property.

One game Armenians are good at, and have been for their entire existence is the game of "passing the buck", the game of "pin the

tail on the donkey". We have to be good at it. We have been playing it for many millennia. It is still a mystery to me how we have

survived all thee centuries.

Let's begin in the beginning.

When we were invaded and devastated by the Assyrians, the Babylonians, the Parthians, the Persians, the Romans, the Greek, etc.

it was never our fault. It was them, they were the savage ones, they were the bloodthirsty invaders. When the Arabs devastated our

lands, again it was their fault. The Byzantians betrayed us. Shame on them!? The Russians neglected us and sold us down the line.

Shame on them too?! Our perceived allies the Chrsitian Europeans abandonned us. Double shame on them!!?? Then of course there

is the Turk. Triple shame on them??!! As you can see it was "THEM", it was all THEIR fault!!! We had nothing to do with it. We were

the innnocent victims??!!

It is like blaming the horse thief for entering our unlocked barn and stealing our entire property. Why was our barn not locked? Why is

it not locked now? Who is to blame for that? Did the locksmith refuse to sell us locks? Who is the locksmith?

As to the Jew. Many Armenians firmly and honestly believe that we are cut from the same cloth. That we have identical legacy and

similar destiny. Some Armenians genuinely believe that we are the 13th tribe. Many Armenians fantasize of being members of the

"chosen people", and as such feel betrayed. I have no idea where all these fantasies come from. I have yet to see in writing or hear

in words where and when it was said so. When did the Jews profess to be our kin and cousins? When did the Armenians have

extensive contact with the Jews, aside from an occasional encounter on the mercantile highways. Where and why do Armenians

have that delusion?

Could it be that Armenians have never forgiven themselves for being the first dupes to adopt that new and untested philosophy

called Christianity? Could it be that they feel cheated for falling for it "lox, stock and bagel"? Could it be that they feel that the Jews

owe them something for our misery ever since we did adopt and replace our entire ethnos with an alien one? Could it be that they

feel cheated by Yahve who never promisd us anything in the first place? If we feel that he owes us anything then it is our fault. Is it

beacuse that alien god neglected us during our most trying times? I'd like to see where and by whom that was promised? Yet it was

the god of the Jews who did not even move a finger to save us?!!

I have no idea where all this comes from. I don't know who promised us all that. I have never seen, any place any time where it was

said that the Jew owes us anything. I have never seen or heard that the Jew has promised us to be our advocate. Oh. I forget. You

see? Since we are identical in legacy and destiny, since we are the first Genocide victims of the 20th c. and the Jews the first

Holocaust victims, then it must be a natural, that we are bosom buddies, that they owe us a debt of brotherhood. Love unrequited?

Whose fault is it? Did they ever promise us eternal love?

Armenians may have been the smartest people on this Earth, they may be the most literate(fact, over 90% literacy) yet they cannot

read or write if their lives depended on it. Let me ask again. Where do they read such fantasies? In that book of of ethnocentric and

xenophobic lies and drivel? I may not be the best biblical scholar, perhaps somebody may help us find where it was written that the

Jews loved, no, liked any of their neighbors. Where it is written that they came to the aid of any of their neighbors. Where it is written

that they cared about anybody else. They have been at war with all their naighbors since time immemorial and still are. Did they love

the Asssyrians or the Babylonians, or was the Philistines or Elamites (Arabs)? Could it have been the Romans or Egyptians?

Maybe they loved the Samaritans and Canaanites! Or was it Phoenicians or the Arameans. One must be blind to not see what I

have observed for a long time. I cannot understand why Armenians are surprised that the Jews and the Turks are professing to be

long lost cousins and friends. Why did the Armenian wait so long to realize the natural affinity and the parellel destiny of the Turk

and the Israeli. Pick up a map, any map and tell us which neighbor does the Turk love. Which neigbor does the Israeli love? Which

neighbor have either of them loved any time?

 

In coclusion.

We have never had any extensive contact with the Jew, we have never been next door neighbors. We have never had war or peace

with them. We owe them nothing, they owe us even less.

 

Therefor.

Can we please not talk about the Jew anymore and instead look within us to see where and how we went wrong.Stop pinning the tail

on the donkey and for a change kick ourselves in the ass for all our failures and promise not to repeat them, most of all stop relying

on Jew and gentile for our salvation and start doing something about it. Eeverybody, every nation have their own problem, let us

take care of our own instead of passing the blame.

 

This will be my last reference to the Jew. We have business to attend to, we cannot play stupid and fruitless games .

[razmouhi]

kaan

 

please tell everyone that you are turkish. I know this turk propagandist from another Armenian Genocide forum. Beware of speaking to it because he is a shameless liar and spammer.

[Guest Fadi]

If you are talking about genocide1915.info, he stoped to post there weeks ago, when I have put him in his place.

 

If you are talking about another forum, give the link to me, because he escaped to answer my last post, and I want to find him and force him to answer it.

 

Regards

 

[ October 27, 2002, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[THOTH]

MJ - what a perfect answer...I think I will frame it (really seriously!)

 

It ia a great shame to me how some (certain) Armenians have been so vocal on the internet in cvarious places with their anti-Jewish (hate) rantings. They harm us greatly IMO - and they are totally without a clue - consumed in their hate and conspiratoral theory thinking.

[joseph]

Arpa jan , remember that the Artsax Armenians locked their barn and then went and unlocked the azrabayjanies barn , do you agree with me .

I have big hope in the future of our NATION , it

is going to take some time , and I am sure we will unlock some other barns too . Our NATION building started at SARDARABAD and I dont think it stoped there . The 1988 earthquake did not stop us , but what could stop us is the defeatist spirited Armenians .

[Kaan]

Hi! I am back at last. I'll be a few days away again. I am a Turkish guy and not a donme from Jewish, Armenian, Greek or any other different ethnicity for the people asking.

 

And Domino (TCOL), I have not closed the discussion, guess what? I have found almost all the documents, and guess what again? You lied and made up the quotations or changed them. Don't think you'll get a nice job on this, let's start the discussion in genocide1915 forums a few days later, and please think about the challenge.

 

To the readers: The challenge is about the Armenian evidences for the Genocide that Domino's talking about. Domino has a pretext that he can't accept the challenge since I can post his personal information on the net, does anyone know a organization which can accept the challenge so noone can be afraid of wandering informations through the net. It is not a problem for me, I don't care about seeing my personal info on the web.

 

With my respects to everyone

[Guest Fadi]

Kaan, you are not threaning me pall, because I know that I have changed no qotations and have invented nothing. Be glad and tell me of what manipulation or lies I have told ? Go ahead Kaan, and do it you know where, I have better things to do for now, so if you have nothing better to do then claiming I lied without proving it, then don't accuse me of lying, thats no professional. And as well stop claiming I am searching for a job.

 

As for the chalange, why you do not tell the readers here on this board of what chalange you were talking about ? So I was afaid to lose ?

 

Well dear members of this board, Kaan has proposed to take a lawyer or something and make a bet of 20,000 or something I do not remember well, about my said allegations. When I told him that I will never give my personal info to someone on the web therefore I can not accept his chalange he screamed so load that I was afraid of losing the bet and that I refused for that reason.

 

Kaan pall, I am happy you found your sources, tell me you know where, or if you want to be embarassed then here, where have I manipulated or invented quotations.

 

Regards

[THOTH]

I laugh at people like this Kaan who come onto Armenian sites (or post in Turkish sites) with all of this "evidence" that nothing untoward happened to Armenians or that it was Kurds and not Turks or such. Sure - I can understand those Turks who have not the capacilty/inclination to investigate further being ignorant on the issue and beleiving the State propoganda - but when someone (a Turk) comes on these forums and claims he has "evidence" that (what all who know understand) is supposedly untrue - well - as I said - I just have to laugh. I mean please - the "evidence" is so overwhelming and from so many sources that I am afraid - dear Kaan - you haven't much of a leg to stand on. But by all means - present your case - amuse us some more...

[Kaan]

Domino said "Be glad and tell me of what manipulation or lies I have told ?"

 

You'll get them one by one. I will not allow you to hide your lies in a composition of demogogy.

 

Domino said "When I told him that I will never give my personal info to someone on the web..."

 

You misunderstood it my naive friend and let us just challenge for a written apology.

 

Our lawyers will contact, I will send you my lawyer's tel number and my real address, so we can prepare a binding paper. I never do business on web.

 

For the readers: The main challenge is about the extermination camps with gas chambers to annihilate the Armenians constructed by the Turks, did they exist or did't they?

[Guest Fadi]

Kaan, if you have a personal problem with me from another board, you should resolve that problem on that board, readers of this forum don't have to read your stories here.

 

Furthermore, I have not said that there was gas chambers in the concentration camps, I said gas chambers existed, I refered you to sources, and even from Turkish sources, you then tell me that I have forged materials, so I kindly ask you where was my manipulation, and please just give it and stop playing the clown by telling that this is lawyer things, because you know I will refuse, you are not the first one trying those things with me to have my personal informations, and just want to remind you that you live in Turkey and I live in Canada, therefore your lawyer has not juridiction here nor mine in your country.

 

If you have any other propositions, intelligent this time, be glad to tell it to me, because I do not want to lose my time with your crybaby behavours and your vengence because you don't know how to answer my post, if you do not know enough about the subject, nothing has forced you to answer me, and if I embarassed you, there was better means then this tricky idiotary of ridiculous bets and lawyers thing... you have no idea how kind of a clown you seem by telling me this.

 

Try a better way to take my personal informations, because I know this is what you are after, better chance next time pall, the lawyer thing was the best thing you came up with, but it was not enough to fool me.

 

[ October 30, 2002, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[Kaan]

Domino said: "you are not the first one trying those things with me to have my personal informations, "

 

You are a stupid person. You can't challenge me. You and I know, you are lying, that is the point, I have nothing with your personal information.

 

Domino said:"and just want to remind you that you live in Turkey and I live in Canada"

 

That is good for you, so you can't claim I will come to Canada and harm you.

 

"therefore your lawyer has not juridiction here nor mine in your country."

 

So you are wrong. As I said before we'll do the challenge on international trade law and transactions...

 

Domino said: "...not know enough about the subject, nothing has forced you to answer me, and if I embarassed you,"

 

You have not embarrassed me.

 

Domino said: "there was better means then this tricky idiotary of ridiculous bets and lawyers thing... you have no idea how kind of a clown you seem by telling me this."

 

I want binding papers, you don't understand, do you? You are the clown.

 

Domino said: "Try a better way to take my personal informations, because I know this is what you are after, better chance next time pall, the lawyer thing was the best thing you came up with, but it was not enough to fool me."

 

Kaan says: You are a silly person. I have nothing with your personal information. I repeat again: Find an Armenian organization which will accept my challenge. I don't want your personal information. Anyway that organization will know you so you'll not still be able to get the job, after the defeat... You know you'll lose and playing the role of a hero for the people not to understand the reality, by saying things like "everyone wants to get my personal information", "I am an important person, I can get killed", "The Turkish Intelligence is after me" bla bla bla...

[Azat]

Please send PMs to resolve your personal issues. I do not think that the rest of the forum members are interested.

[Guest Fadi]

I am not that important, then the importance you want to give me.

 

Second, I gave you a fair proposition, and asked you to accept it, this proposition was that if you prove me wrong I will appologise and say that the genocide never happened, and never post about this subject again, this was fair and simple.

 

I said that if I prove you wrong, you will appologise, I have proved you wrong, have you Mr. read my answer that you never answered ? I have documented what I proposed to document, I proved you lied and was mistaken, don't force me to post the link here, now you come and say me that I lied, so kindly I ask you where have I lied... you do not answer to my question rather decide to polute this forum with your posts that have nothing to do with any discussion but rather a personal conflict, and furthermore, I never said I was a such important person, you were the one showing me I was, when you asked me to bet 20,000 or such things as me being hired or something.

 

Do not say my deal was not fair, it was very fair, I told you I will apologise and say the genocide never happened if you prove me wrong, you did not you lied about everything, you accused me of forging, when I did not I asked you to verify yourself and gave you the references, if you can't check those references its not my problem.

 

And to finish, I will ask you to stop poluted this board and if you have a personal conflict with me then conclude in the forum where it started, I am on this forum not to have a discussion about the genocide but to have fun, if you want to discuss about the genocide, then chose a Turkish forum, and I will discuss there, I won;t talk about a subject that will inform only you, but rather the Turks.

 

As for personal informations, I know that is what you want... try harder, but try it elswhere... PLEASE !!!

 

Regards

 

PS: Your next posts will be ignored.

[Guest Fadi]

Oups, sorry Azat too late, I did not saww your post, I will not have any problem if you delete the posts from where it started.

[Kaan]

Readers, please don't comment unless you read the discussion. Go to:

 

http://users.ihost.biz/armgeno/forum/one.a...&GID=6288&CID=1

 

I will repeat my challenge which I have written in the forum

 

"You know my challenge, we can do it formally on written forms, it is not impossible. A new challenge: I claim that at least half of them are based on lies, you claim you have never lied. Noone wins when 25 % of your claims are proven to be lies (Kazým *****'s Ýstiklal Harbimiz, that sentence from the tribunals, Doðu Ergil is an important racist theorician, the number of 700000...). I win at least after proving 50% and more is lie, you win after proving your claims are 100% true. It is a challenge which is not about the investigation in Syria."

 

We need a written formal paper for this, because I need an evidence of Armenian forgery, and a formal apology for the slander "Genocide"

 

The discussion is going on in Genocide1915

 

Domino said: "I have documented what I proposed to document, I proved you lied and was mistaken"

 

You have proved nothing but you had been lying all the time to me, and I need that challenge to prove this to all the diaspora.

 

Domino said: "when you asked me to bet 20,000 or such things as me being hired or something"

 

It was just to show how serious I was, not because of your importance. You are the one who is always telling stories of in what a great danger you are living and similar things... I must confess that there was not a better guy to challenge although I am aware of your low level. You were discussing on the Genocide issue at least, not talking about homosexual issues as most of the other visitors have been doing for a few weeks.

[Guest Fadi]

I ask any moderators, please do not delete his above post,

 

I want that people read and see by themselves the link he provided and my answer in it.

 

Regards

 

[ October 31, 2002, 09:25 AM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[Guest Fadi]

I just missed that.

 

"You are the one who is always telling stories of in what a great danger you are living and similar things... "

 

Refering in two posts why I can not accept his chalange, and it becomes always. LOL

 

[ October 31, 2002, 10:26 AM: Message edited by: Domino ]

[THOTH]

Kaan -

 

I am looking over your thread on the Genocide forum. You make many assertions with no evidence/proof - they are just that - assertions - and thay are by and large entirely incorrect. You are not a person to be taken seriously.

[THOTH]

Kaan - is this an example of your level of seriousness (From the Genocide forum):

 

Kaan: "You are wrong. There was Malta Tribunals, go to Britain and Malta for the original evidences. Although I asked the Queen to give me the original papers and told her I would send them to you, she told me she couldn't give them to anyone, but she added it was free to study in the British archives and you are invited to study the documents."