Kaan

Readers, please don't comment unless you read the discussion. Go to: http://users.ihost.biz/armgeno/forum/one.a...&GID=6288&CID=1 I will repeat my challenge which I have written in the forum "You know my challenge, we can do it formally on written forms, it is not impossible. A new challenge: I claim that at least half of them are based on lies, you claim you have never lied. Noone wins when 25 % of your claims are proven to be lies (Kazým *****'s Ýstiklal Harbimiz, that sentence from the tribunals, Doðu Ergil is an important racist theorician, the number of 700000...). I win at least after proving 50% and more is lie, you win after proving your claims are 100% true. It is a challenge which is not about the investigation in Syria." We need a written formal paper for this, because I need an evidence of Armenian forgery, and a formal apology for the slander "Genocide" The discussion is going on in Genocide1915 Domino said: "I have documented what I proposed to document, I proved you lied and was mistaken" You have proved nothing but you had been lying all the time to me, and I need that challenge to prove this to all the diaspora. Domino said: "when you asked me to bet 20,000 or such things as me being hired or something" It was just to show how serious I was, not because of your importance. You are the one who is always telling stories of in what a great danger you are living and similar things... I must confess that there was not a better guy to challenge although I am aware of your low level. You were discussing on the Genocide issue at least, not talking about homosexual issues as most of the other visitors have been doing for a few weeks.

Domino said: "you are not the first one trying those things with me to have my personal informations, " You are a stupid person. You can't challenge me. You and I know, you are lying, that is the point, I have nothing with your personal information. Domino said:"and just want to remind you that you live in Turkey and I live in Canada" That is good for you, so you can't claim I will come to Canada and harm you. "therefore your lawyer has not juridiction here nor mine in your country." So you are wrong. As I said before we'll do the challenge on international trade law and transactions... Domino said: "...not know enough about the subject, nothing has forced you to answer me, and if I embarassed you," You have not embarrassed me. Domino said: "there was better means then this tricky idiotary of ridiculous bets and lawyers thing... you have no idea how kind of a clown you seem by telling me this." I want binding papers, you don't understand, do you? You are the clown. Domino said: "Try a better way to take my personal informations, because I know this is what you are after, better chance next time pall, the lawyer thing was the best thing you came up with, but it was not enough to fool me." Kaan says: You are a silly person. I have nothing with your personal information. I repeat again: Find an Armenian organization which will accept my challenge. I don't want your personal information. Anyway that organization will know you so you'll not still be able to get the job, after the defeat... You know you'll lose and playing the role of a hero for the people not to understand the reality, by saying things like "everyone wants to get my personal information", "I am an important person, I can get killed", "The Turkish Intelligence is after me" bla bla bla...

Domino said "Be glad and tell me of what manipulation or lies I have told ?" You'll get them one by one. I will not allow you to hide your lies in a composition of demogogy. Domino said "When I told him that I will never give my personal info to someone on the web..." You misunderstood it my naive friend and let us just challenge for a written apology. Our lawyers will contact, I will send you my lawyer's tel number and my real address, so we can prepare a binding paper. I never do business on web. For the readers: The main challenge is about the extermination camps with gas chambers to annihilate the Armenians constructed by the Turks, did they exist or did't they?

Hi! I am back at last. I'll be a few days away again. I am a Turkish guy and not a donme from Jewish, Armenian, Greek or any other different ethnicity for the people asking. And Domino (TCOL), I have not closed the discussion, guess what? I have found almost all the documents, and guess what again? You lied and made up the quotations or changed them. Don't think you'll get a nice job on this, let's start the discussion in genocide1915 forums a few days later, and please think about the challenge. To the readers: The challenge is about the Armenian evidences for the Genocide that Domino's talking about. Domino has a pretext that he can't accept the challenge since I can post his personal information on the net, does anyone know a organization which can accept the challenge so noone can be afraid of wandering informations through the net. It is not a problem for me, I don't care about seeing my personal info on the web. With my respects to everyone

A quotation from the article below: "It appears so to you, no doubt; but we Armenians have determined to be free, Europe listened to the Bulgarian horrors and made Bulgaria free. She will listen to our cry when it goes up in the shrieks and blood of millions of women and children...We are desperate. We shall do it." What we understand: Some Armenians living in Europe (the diaspora of that time) made the plans for the circumstances of a civil war for their political ambitions. It is obvious that the great tragedy was foreseen, they hoped to be the leaders of the free and great Armenia after the shrieks and blood of millions of women and children and they were working for the tragedy. Similarity with today: Some Armenians (the diaspora of this time) tell Armenia to fight and make war forever, which make Armenia unsafer, poorer and emptier; which means: Armenians can only rule their country when they are not there, since they don't want to be in the bloodshed they want Armenia to be in, they (diaspora) want a cheap victory over their nation's misery and then to come to their motherland as victorious heros (!). They like gambling, and when they lose gambling with others' money, the diaspora wants the loss they have foreseen and caused back crying with the terms "civilization, humanity, democracy..." FROM THE DIPLOMACY OF IMPERIALISM, WILLIAM L. LANGER, NEW YORK (ALFRED A.KNOPF) 1960, p.157-160 The record of Armenian revolutionary activities against the Ottoman Empire in the last two decades of the 19th century is dealt with in detail in the work of the Harvard University diplomatic historian, William Langer. Langer traces the manner by which the Armenian revolutionaries sought to incite European intervention on behalf of their cause. Specifically, by massacring innocent Muslim villagers, they hoped to provoke counter-violence which would then serve as a pretext for European intervention. Langer writes: "Europeans in Turkey have agreed that the immediate aim of the agitators was to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals, and so provoke the intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said that, they operated by preference in areas where the Armenians were in hopelessly minority, so that reprisals would be certain. One of the revolutionaries told Dr. Hamlin, the founder of Robert College, that Henchak bands would: "watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire to their villages, and then make their escape into the mountains. The enraged Moslems will then rise, and fall upon the defenseless Armenians and slaughter them with such barbarity that Russia will enter in the name of humanity and Christian civilization and take possession." When the horrified missionary denounced the scheme as atrocious and infernal beyond anything ever known, he received this reply: "It appears so to you, no doubt; but we Armenians have determined to be free. Europe listened to Bulgarian horrors and made bulgaria free. She will listen to our cry when it goes up in the shrieks and blood of millions of women and children..We are desperate. We shall do it." * And so the revolutionaries began to get what they wanted - reprisals. It mattered not to them that perfectly innocent people were being made to suffer for the realization of a program drawn up by a group in Geneva or Athens, a group which had never been given any mandate whatever by the Armenian community. * Hogarth tells of Armenians in the provinces who said they wished the patriots would leave them alone. But these people were not consulted by others for the sacrifice; their lives were the price to be paid for the realization of the fantastic national-socialist state of the fanatics." *** Source: William L. Langer, The Diplomacy of Imperialism, New York (Alfred A. Knopf), pp.157-160 "The Hentchakian Revolutionary party was, in 1890, invited to join the Armenian Revolutionary Federation, and did so, but the association of the two did not last long. Nazarbek was evidently not an easy person to get on with and preferred to work on his own. At first he had trouble in finding followers, but his new collaborators worked hard, Khan-Azad, for example went to Constantinople in July 1889 and began to spread propaganda. He consulted with Khrimian, but found the old man doubtful:"You are crazy," said the old patriot. "The Armenians are a very small nation, and how much blood will have to be shed." He could not see how anything substantial could be done without European help. But Khan-Azad was not discouraged. he went on to Tiflis, where he had no better luck. It was only in Trebizond that he found any real enthusiasm. There he established the central committee of the party, and from that centre agents were sent out who organized revolutionary cells in Erzerum, Kharput, Smyrna, Aleppo and many other places. Nazarbek himself stayed discreetly in Geneva, but in a volume of stories published later he has given us vivid pictures of the agitators visiting the peasants, "talking the night through with them, speaking with them of their sufferings, unceasingly, impatiently, preaching the gospel of an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, rousing their curshed spirits with high resolves and mighty aspirations. The ambassadors at Constantinople were not slow in following the development of this agitation. From 1888 onward the English representative reported the presence of revolutionaries and the seizure of seditious literature. Revolutionary placards were being posted in the cities and there were not a few cases of the blackmailing of wealthy Armenians, who were forced to contribute to the cause. Europeans in Turkey were agreed that the immediate aim of the agitators was to incite disorder, bring about inhuman reprisals, and so provoke the intervention of the powers. For that reason, it was said, they operated by preference in areas where the Armenians were in a hopeless minority, so that reprisals would be certain. One of the revolutionaries told Dr. Hamlin, the founder of Robert College, that the Henchak bands would watch their opportunity to kill Turks and Kurds, set fire to their villages, and then make their escape into the mountains. The enraged Moslems will then rise, and fall upon the defenseless Armenians and slaughter them with such barbarity that Russia will enter in the name of humanity and Christian civilization and take possession." When the horrified missionary denounced the scheme as atrocious and infernal beyond anything ever known, he received this reply: "It appears so to you, no doubt; but we Armenians have determined to be free, Europe listened to the Bulgarian horrors and made Bulgaria free. She will listen to our cry when it goes up in the shrieks and blood of millions of women and children...We are deperate. We shall do it." Serious trouble began in 1890, when there were disturbances and some bloodshed at Erzerum. The outbreak had not been premeditated or planned, but the Hentchak hoped to capitalize it. To encourage interest it arranged to stage a great demonstration in Constantinople to impress both the Turkish and the European governments. The affair was carefully planned and the minimum demands of the revolutionaries (civil liberties) were sent in advance to the foreign ambassadors. A proclamation was read in Armenian Church at Kum-Kapu, in which the Armenians were told in so many words: "You must be your own self-governing master." Even this demonstration had no favorable results. During the following months the efforts of the leaders seem to have gone into negotiations for an agreement with other revolutionary groups. There were long conferences at Athens, and in December 1891 the Hentchak officially joined the Oriental Federation of Macedonian, Albanian, Cretan and Greek revolutionists. The newspaper was transferred to Athens, where it remained until the end of 1894, at which time the Armenian organization moved to London. In the interval propaganda was being carried on in Armenia and efforts were being made to induce the Kurds to join forces with the insurgents. Agents were sent also to America, where branches were established in Boston, Worcester and other cities. Khan-Azad reports that he raised in America no less than $10,000 to support the cause. When the Gladstone cabinet came into power in the summer of 1892 the hopes of the Armenians ran high, for was not the Grand Old Man the savior of the oppressed? As a matter of fact the Liberal Government began almost at once to send sharp notes to the Porte. The Anglo-Armenian Committee and the Evangelical Aliiance made the most of the situation and raised the hue and cry of religious persecution. But English influence had sunk so low at Constantinople that no attention was paid to the protests from London. The Turkish government probably realized even then the Russian government, just as hostile to the Hentchakian aspirations as the Turkish, would stand behind it. In 1890 the Russian officials had co-operated with the Turkish in breaking up an Armenian raiding party organized in the Caucasus. Many writers have taken the stand that English intervention only made matters worse. "The Turk begins to repress because we sympathize" wrote David Hogarth; "and we sympathize the more because he represses, and so the vicious circle revolves". England "is more responsible for the cold-blooded murders which have come near exterminating the Armenians than all other nations put together" remarked an American traveller. It requires no very vivid imagination to picture the reaction of the Turks to the agitation of the revolutionists. They had constantly in mind, if not the revolt of the Greeks, at least the insurrection in Bulgaria and the disastrous intervention of Russia and the powers. Whether Abdul Hamid deserves the black reputation that has been pinned to him is a matter for debate. If he was "the bloody assassin" and the "red Sultan" to most people, he was the hard-working conscientious, much harassed but personally charming ruler to others. Those who have spoken for him have pointed out that the Sultan felt his Empire threatened by the Armenians who he knew or at least believed, were in league with the Young Turks, the Greeks, Macedonians, etc. They believe that Abdul Hamid was the victim of what we moderns call a persecution complex. He was terrified, and for that reason surrounded himself not only with high walls, but with all sorts of dubious characters, especially spies and delators who justified their existence by bringing ever more alarming reports. So much at least cannot be denied: that the revolutionists planned a great conflagration and that they gave the Sultan and his ministers ample fright. One of their proclamations read: "The times are most critical and pregnant with ominous events. The cup is full. Prepare for the inevitable. Organize, arm, -arm with anything. If one place revolts or shows resistance, do the same in your locality. Spread the fight for liberation. yes, in truth, it is better to live as a free man for a day, for an hour, and to die fighting, than to live a life of slavery for generations, nay for centuries." In the summer of 1894 the Revolutionary Committee wrote a letter to the Grand Vizier warning him that there would be a general rising in the Empire if the "very just demands of the Armenian people" were not met. No one could blame the government for anticipating a tremendous upheaval and for taking precautions. Probably to counteract the efforts made to bring the Kurds into the movement, the Sultan had, in 1891, organized the tribesmen in the famous Hamidie regiments, which were modelled on the Russian cossack brigades and were supposedly meant to act as a frontier defense force. In 1877 and 1878, however, the Kurd troops had been more trouble than they were worth, it may therefore be assumed that the purpose of the new organizations was to satisfy the chief and keep them from joining forces with the Armenian revolutionaries. In fact they could and were, under the new system, used against the Armenians. Beginning in 1892, the Hamidie regiments, sometimes supported by regular troops, began to raid the Armenian settlements, burnign the houses, destroying the crop and cutting down the inhabitants. And so the revolutionaries began to get what they wanted - reprisals. It mattered not to them that perfectly innocent people were being made to suffer for the realization of a program drawn up by a group in Geneva or Athens, a group which had never been given any mandate whatever by the Armenian community. So far as one can make out the Hentchak agitators were ardently supported by the lower-class Armenians in Constantinople, with whose help they forced the election of the Patriot Ismirlian as patriarch in 1894. But the upper classes appear to have been opposed to the whole program; indeed, they were victimized themselves by threatening letters and by blackmail into the financing of a scheme which they regarded as disastrous. As for the peasantry in the provinces, it is perfectly obvious that they did not know what it was all about. Isabella Bishop, who travelled through the country in 1891, makes the positive statement "that the Armenian peasant is as destitude of political aspirations as he is ignorant of political grievances...not a single occasion did I hear a wish expressed for political or administrative reform, or for Armenian independence." Hogarth tells of Armenians in the provinces who said they wished the patriots would leave them alone. But these people were not consulted. Whether they liked it or not, they were marked out by others for the sacrifice; their lives were the price to be paid for the

I have been reading the Armenian opinions about the Jews and I have surprisingly seen that the Armenians have a strong obsession with the Jews. I wonder if the Armenians or any of them has a solution for their "Jew" and also a solution for their "Turk" problem. In other words what will you do when you have the infinite power? Thanks from now for your kind answers.