glasnost71 Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 French-Armenian Organisation CDCA Traces the Genocide Denialist WebsitesPosted on - 29/07/01 15:05 By Micha MK Paris, (July 29, 2001) CDCA (Comité de Defense de la Cause Armeniénne) placed an Action Alert on its web site, inviting "web-surfers" to report Armenian Genocide "denialist" links by email or by completion of the online form. The organisation does not publisize its achivements in tracing and "beating" denialist websites, meanwhile it has succeeded to shut down a number of websites listed in Yahoo!France and other nation-wide web directories on the basis of the French Law recognising the Armenian Genocide. The French-Armenian CDCA is a well-known Armenian "Cause" militant-organisation which had largerly contributed to the affirmation of the Armenian Genocide commited by Ottoman Turkish Government in 1915. Along with other influential organisations of the French Armenian community (FRA Dachnagsoutioun, Comité du 24 Avril), CDCA had achieved significant goals in the Affirmation of the Armenian Genocide by the European Governments. On January 29, 2001 France adopted the Law relating to the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, which allows militants to condemn any action of "denialism" in regard to the subject of Law. --- The Text of the French Law Recognising the Armenian Genocide adopted by the French Senate and approved by the President and PM of France in English Armenian National Institute in French National Assembly of France - Text Définitif Loi 611 --- by Micha MK Editor and Moderator ArmenianForums.com LEGAL NOTICEARMENIANFORUMS.COM is a non-commercial online news and discussions service which aims at supporting the development of independent information networks in Armenia, Middle East and TransCaucasian Region.ArmenianForums.com is based in Paris, FranceAll materials copyrighted by ArmenianForums.com may be copied and distributed without any restrictions and preliminary permissions.This permission is equally valid for individuals and media organisations. As a gesture of support we invite all publishers and scholars using materials from this website to refer to it as a source of information. Source: CDCA web siteOriginal article at ArmenianForums.com http://www.armenianforums.com/site/article.php3?id=241 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wh00t Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 Down they go, one by one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 If the French Senate had rejected the Law Recognising the Armenian Genocide, would Turkey have been able to close French sites alleging the genocide actually happened? You silence opponents by the strength of your facts and arguments. You do not censor them. And you do not encourage the French to ignore EC human rights legislation. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 30, 2001 Report Share Posted July 30, 2001 Bellthecat, Armenian Genocide is historical fact. Period.As a crime against humanity it was officially recognized by both The Senate and The French Parliament. The legal consequences of this recognition are that whoever, whenever dares to deny the fact of Genocide perpetrated against Armenians must face the Justice system. Those who have any doubts about the Genocide may do their research privately without offending the survivors of this crime. I know that many nations did not adopted similar legislation but it is a matter of time. As to the Brits I think their lack of proper denouncement of the acts of Genocide can not be explained solely by political or economic considerations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 I hope they will punish them too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasnost71 Posted July 31, 2001 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 quote:Originally posted by bellthecat:If the French Senate had rejected the Law Recognising the Armenian Genocide, would Turkey have been able to close French sites alleging the genocide actually happened? You silence opponents by the strength of your facts and arguments. You do not censor them. And you do not encourage the French to ignore EC human rights legislation.SteveI guess you misunderstood this report.There is no such a law in France which forbids the "denialist" websites.There is only one law in France called the Gayssot Law which prosecutes only denialist of Jewish Holocaust by Nazis.TALKING about CDCA it pressures web portals or denialist organisations on the basis of the French Law which declares only that France does publicly recognise the Armenian Genocide of 1915.Many portals like Yahoo!France and Nomade will rather remove denialist sites from their listings then go through long court hearings which can end up, if CDCA wins (and there are many chances that CDCA will win, as they did once win against "Le Monde" newspaper's columnist) with hard consequences for the image of the Yahoo Directory which has already a "discutable" reputation in France.Meanwhile ther are probably hundreads of denialist websites in France which do act. They are removed from listings, but they are not shut down.I think CDCA and many other organisations have still lot of work to do.France is a country where the justice works seperately, less corrupted than in Turkey and more efficient when it comes to the protection of Law. But please, do not consider France to be an exemplaire country.It's in avant garde of many movements, but not perfect.Thought it is "Obvious", right!?![ July 31, 2001: Message edited by: glasnost71 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 quote:Originally posted by gamavor:As a crime against humanity it was officially recognized by both The Senate and The French Parliament. The legal consequences of this recognition are that whoever, whenever dares to deny the fact of Genocide perpetrated against Armenians must face the Justice system.What legal consequences? As I just said this so-called "law" is actually a statement of belief - a public statement that the French senate (and, by implication, the French state) accepts that the Armenian genocide happened. It is an abomination for you to suggest that just because a legislative body says that something is true (or is not true) then a person who disagrees with that legislative's statement should be treated like a criminal. The French parliament has a long history of making unjustifiable statements, from the time of Dreyfus right to the present. It is about time you saw beyond partisan politics and recognised what sort of road you are advocating going down.Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted July 31, 2001 Report Share Posted July 31, 2001 OK Bellthecat, I am very curious to know what other road you would suggest, given the present and past denial and given current political situation and the many interest involved. Truly very interested to know your position.My position is crystal clear. Recognition of the Genocide immaterial of political, economical and other considerations. Legal measures applied against those who deny this crime (because it is a crime and not only a minor historical tragedy), and because this crime is of such a magnitude that is classified as a crime against humanity.More over here we are talking about taking a private legal action based on the current legislation. As it was explained by, Glasnost71 only Jews are "privileged" to use the governmental prosecution against deniers of their Holocaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellthecat Posted August 1, 2001 Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by glasnost71:I guess you misunderstood this report.There is no such a law in France which forbids the "denialist" websites.There is only one law in France called the Gayssot Law which prosecutes only denialist of Jewish Holocaust by Nazis.The report used the words "has succeeded to shut down a number of websites" so I assumed that meant closed, not just removed from the likes of Yahoo France. That I was wrong, is good news. But the word "Law" must have a different meaning in France than elsewhere - in this case it is actually just a public statement of belief. However France is geting a bad reputation in Europe for banning things (everything from foreign words to religious sects just because some ego-mad politicians object to them).Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasnost71 Posted August 1, 2001 Author Report Share Posted August 1, 2001 quote:Originally posted by bellthecat:The report used the words "has succeeded to shut down a number of websites" so I assumed that meant closed, not just removed from the likes of Yahoo France. That I was wrong, is good news. But the word "Law" must have a different meaning in France than elsewhere - in this case it is actually just a public statement of belief. However France is geting a bad reputation in Europe for banning things (everything from foreign words to religious sects just because some ego-mad politicians object to them).SteveIndeed it did succeed to shut down denialist websites.But the first goal of this organisation is tracing and cutting the access to this websites.It isn't easy to shut down a website. It takes a considerable time of hearings and investigation.Genocide Recognition Law? If it is a Law? Yes it is!!!"The Law is the Law", - French say. "La Loi est La Loi"It's a Law. Otherwise it wouldn't have passed through Senate and National Assembly.I never heard of France having a bad reputaion because of forbidding everything. I think if there is a corner where France has artificially drawn "bad reputation" - it is Turkey.As I said before France is not perfect, but it strives to be in the frontline when it comes to new legislative aspirations.Besides, Turkish hysteria raised around the Recognition Bill (Law) is unfolded one and useless, since France is one of the most cheerful supporter's of Turkey's candidature into the EU.The question is why should France take always decisions which will please Turkish pride and denialism.You can't fool French. There will be a Day when France will pass its bill condemning Tortures in Algeria, during Algeria's Independence war.So Turkish "ultra-chauvinists" will stay without any contre-argument.Algerian issue is largerly discussed here, unlike Turkey where the Armenian issue is still a "taboo". I'm sure it will change in Turkey (thanks to French Senate), for the time being it is like that.[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: glasnost71 ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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