PRESS RELEASE Art Poster Campaign for the recognition of Arm

[15levels]

PRESS RELEASE

 

International Art Poster Campaign

for the recognition of Armenian Genocide

April 24, 1915-2002

 

November 6, Amsterdam, Netherlands

Contact: Rouben Malayan

Web: http://15levels.com/1915/

E-mail: 1915@15levels.com

 

An open international competition has been launched, in the form of a ‘call to artists’

around the world - Armenian and non-Armenian - to contribute a work that they think best

depicts an image of the history of the Armenian Genocide.

 

This depiction can take any form – photographs, drawn or painted (realist or abstract)

pieces, digital designs – any artistic expression that can be presented in poster form for

 

widespread dissemination. When chosen, the selected posters will be reproduced and

distributed internationally as representation of the political initiative of Armenians who

 

believe that the truths of their history must be acknowledged in world public opinion.

 

The objectives of this campaign include the simultaneous launch of posters across Europe

and the United States on April 24, 2002. They will be printed in eight languages,

including English, Spanish, Dutch, German, Turkish, Hebrew, Arabic, and Armenian.

They will be targeted in particular to high-density-area urban audiences whose opinions

are likely to have an impact on policy-makers in their respective cities/countries.

 

The selection process for this art competition will take place through an online votation

process which will be open to all those who are involved with and support this cause.

Further development for this project exists in the potential publishing of a book or the

organization of a touring art exhibit – such that message of this initiative is maintained

 

in the public eye for as long as possible.

 

This is an appeal to all individuals, organizations and foundations with interest in

supporting the international recognition of the Armenian Genocide of 1915, and the

cultivation and encouragement of Armenian art, history and education around the world.

 

Time is of the essence for this project, and the identification of sources of funding is

the urgent ‘next step’. Contributions and donations from organizations or individuals

are crucial for the realization of this unprecedented project. Please contribute.

 

For further information visit http://www.15Levels.com/1915/

[bellthecat]

The mouse thinks it can roar!

[15levels]

What is your point Steve? You are sabotaging our work everywhere you can. What is it you want?

[ThornyRose]

How about you coming clean, admitting your folly, and perhaps promising to do the best you can to promote publicity of the issue of the Ani quarries so they are closed down and whatever harm possible is prevented?

[15levels]

http://15levels.com/1915/images/posters/PR-23.gif

 

The responsibility for the condition of this priceless historical monument lies entirely on Turkish government.

 

Now get lost with your propoganda bully, would ya.

[ThornyRose]

Rouben, watch your mouth. I have no orders to take from a shameless and immature coward like the likes of yourself. Either admit your folly like a man or get lost yourself and I will post what you said all around where it is relevant to show people what you said in the face of evidence.

This is not blackmail for you to accept the damage the quarries inflict (or, if you are not convinced, "might be inflicting") but rather other peoples' rights to know what they are entitled to know.

At best, your Republic of Armenia has been stupid enough to give the same Turks that have destroyed all those monuments the excuse to get away with yet another.

See where I stand?

Your finger pointing is no better than poking it up your bunghole...

Do you have doubts about the quarry? Why does it mean so much to you? Have you relatives that make a living out of it?

Like I said, indignation is natural, but you are not an infant to brush it off as easily as that.

[ThornyRose]

By the way, Rouben, that site on the poster you've shown me - guess who it belongs to...

[15levels]

Evidence? What evidence? Manufactured in Ankara? Sorry, we have seen enough of that.
The evidence is clearly displayed on the posted poster. Any you may go and bark wherever you want, fortunately very few people listen or pay attention to you.

QUOTE] At best, your Republic of Armenia has been stupid enough to give the same Turks that have destroyed all those monuments the excuse to get away with yet another.


I rest my case.

Moderator: FYI, txerk jan, migutse verj@ dnek ais anbaroyakanutian@? Anchap shnorhakal klinem.

[MJ]

Thorny, on an unrelated note, I would appreciate if you could formulate explicitly what you where trying to convey about the "quarries." It seems to me that the topic keeps coming back, which tells me that in some people's minds the issue has remained unresolved. I am very busy till the weekend, but will get back to you on the subject as soon as I can.

[ThornyRose]

More childish blabber? Anyone who points out the quarries and the observed damage is an informer for the Turkish government? And I for one am a barbarian?
Go whine some more to your moderator! Maybe he'll take you in his arms and stroke your hair and tell everything's going to be alright!



MJ, if that thread hadn't been deleted, anyone could have followed how the "conversation" developed to end up with my mentioning of how naive it was to think Armenians were the only folks capable of protecting these monuments, given what has been going on with the quarries. To remove all doubt, the operations in the quarries have, Have, HAVE to be stopped, IMO - yet the best you get from jerks like the above are denial of such potential damage and calling myself a barbarian - a loss from the beginning (and better and juicier material to post around to show just who the "great project developer" is - just another piece of faeces like Astarjian or Demirel or Konyar). I think Armenians, like any folk, deserve better "representatives" - or, at worst, these people have to put their wits together.

Ah, and another thing, Rouby Poopy - quite a few people listen to what I say. Let's see how many people enjoy what you are saying in your fervent generalizing mania.

[ThornyRose]

What evidence, Rouby Poopy? Did I say Armenian monuments were not being destroyed? NO! I didn't say the evidence indicates that they are not destroyed. I said that there is evidence that the quarries cause damage, and jerks like you in the Armenian Republic have tried to hush up their deed while it is Turkish archaeologists (with or without the quotes) and their foreign colleagues they work/have worked together with that ask for something to be done about it, whereas not only do you ignore, you ignoramuses, but you also deny!
We mentioned the quarries - that poster of yours has a link to a site - what does that site say about quarries? Update what you know if you haven't already.
Those who do not know, LEARN.

[15levels]

Your turkish "archeologists" cause now more damage to Ani than forces of nature all together. Bulldozing and replacing original stones with new cut briks isn't called restoration. And show me the "evidence" that Armenians are harming their own legacy. They have no reason for doing so, while turks have plenty of reasons to level to ground Ani and the remaining Christian monuments in Turkey.

 

BTW, the quotes on the poster are from the report by UNESCO and recent photo exibition in Armenian Parliament shows the state of Armenian Churches on the territory of Turkey, Iran and Azerbaijan.

 

Bark, bark, no use, facts remain facts.

[MJ]

Thorny,

 

Actually this is what I was pursuing regardless of the current online contoversy.

 

I trace elements of misinformation here and inaccurate representation. Since I have no ability to concentrate on the topic, I would like to pose few clarifying questions, and will get back to youas soon as I can:

 

1. Who and where has presented evidence that the qyuarries in Armenia have caused damage to the monuments of Ani?

 

2. Who has tried to silence anyone or hide the fact of the ongoing at the time explosions?

 

3. Do you have any evidence that the explosions have not been stopped effective the date I have repported to the forum based on the information I had received?

 

Perhaps I could come up with a couple of other questions when I can better concentrate on the topic.

[ThornyRose]

Why would our incompetent archaeologists make facts out of nothing?
I would agree that the archaeologists are doing a terrible job from what I, like anyone online who hasn't been there (I intended to this summer but got side-tracked), can see.
The intention to harm the monuments may not be there - but it is an outcome, nevertheless, from what has been related to me/us.
Steve has been there - and he goes there year after year.
Steve is not the only person who has told me about the quarries, though.

The only canine here is you, as you have chosen to attack me rather than consider the possibility that the quarries could be causing harm. So immature.

[bellthecat]

Firstly - I question the real value of these posters. They are artistically attractive, but I think you are only going to be preaching to the converted. In general, posters tend to reinforce held opinions and do not change opinions. But maybe I will be wrong.

Secondly - personally, I do not think posters are an appropriate medium to discuss historical events in detail - they are too much like politicians "sound-bites". This is a valid chriticism that can be placed on the whole "genocide-recognition" campaign - extreme simplification to appeal to the limited time and understanding of politicians (eg: the constant repeating of Hitler's non-existant statement on the Genocide).

Thirdly - all the simplified propaganda just clowds the real issue. Have you never read any Turkish anti-Armenian propaganda books? Most of their content is devoted to easily dismissing the nonsence produced by Armenians (such as the Hitler statement referred to earlier, or the "Tower of Skulls" photograph, or similar fabrications). By the time they have done all that, they don't need to bother trying to address the Truth of the Armenian genocide because by using Armenians' own words, they have discredited themselves as witnesses.

Fourthly - I saw from your replies in the "cultural Genocide" posting that you do not really have the interests of Armenian monuments at heart. I think that to you they are just another bit of cannon-fodder to throw at the Turks. I do not think you are interested in realistic ways to preserve them.

Maybe, if the discussion had been allowed to continue, some realistic solutions might have been suggested - but instead you just quit and ran (mouse-like) for cover.


Steve

PS
For the Ani quarry, see: http://www.virtualani.freeserve.co.uk/quar...arry/quarry.htm

[ThornyRose]

MJ, I called up the Anıtsal guys (the ones involved in the restoration) in early or mid-September. The lady who attended was the same as the person I had talked to before, and she told me that she had been there with her boss, Fikri Bey (don't know his full name), in late July or early August, I think - I must have the dates written down somewhere - and she told me that the explosions had been continuing when she was there. I'll take her word. I know, I would have been less skeptical had she told me they had been stopped.
Now, for the damage: the rule of thumb in such matters is that all operations are to be suspended upon complaints until the facts are determined. I know, because such things, we watch on TV quite often here in Turkey. You see the same thing about the gold extraction in Bergama (another thing people in the whereabouts have to complain about, besides the "use of cyanide"). You hear about the same stuff even here in Ankara where there are all these limestone quarries.
And hasn't Steve shown us one article written by an Armenian where there are all these justified complaints about the restorations carried out whereas there is nothing about the quarry (and all this since the passages have been "lifted verbatim" from his site)? Nobody has tried to silence anything even though even Vartan Oskanian has been involved (to no avail, obviously), because they don't have to! Rabid folks like Rouby Poopy serve to that end, anyhow!
I take Steve and Fikri Bey's word (through his assistant) for the existence of the damage. I have no other choice, because, not only have I not visited Ani, but I have no way of comparing the size of the cracks and what-not Steve tells about.
Until someone who has equal experience (for lack of a better word as can drop from my lips/fingertips at the moment) is able to argue for the contrary, those quarries are harmful in my eyes. (But I don't think that there is anysuchbody - those cracks, had they been spontaneous, would still have been there - but the quarries constitute an undesired variable there.)
No element of misinformation can make the story turn 180 degrees.
You see, Rouby Poopy, no amount of what is done on the Turkish side gives you carte blanche or an excuse.

[MJ]

Thorny,

 

First of all, as I have reported to this forum, per my information, the explosions where stopped effective June 30th, or July 30th. I will check it again. And I will call Yerevan on Friday, if I have time, or on Monday, otherwise, to start a new process. But you have to give me more definitive information than you have done above, and you have to sound more convinced in what you are alluding. If they have not stopped the explosions, I would go and mobilize all my friends against them. That’s first. But I have to say that while you may have enough reasons to believe your friends/contacts, from the level at which your message is being communicated, I am not quite persuaded in its factuality.

As far as the “rule of thumb" is concerned, I think I have been very direct in blaming the Armenian government, first of all. And I have blamed them not only for the potential damage but even for giving material for potential demagoguery, which should‘ve been expected, and which has been exercised by the other side. I have written them about this.

But the fact of the matter is that no petition has been directed to the Armenian government from Turkey with respect to the explosions. Turkey has decided to appeal directly to UNESCO. Fine. First, in this context, the government of Armenia has immediately acknowledged the fact of the explosions. There hasn’t been any attempt of a cover up by the Armenian side. Therefore, first I would like to dismiss any insinuations of the kind. Second, the government of Armenia has appealed to the government of Turkey to allow Armenian delegation on a fact-finding mission. It has been denied.

I recall The Cat talking or showing an article by who-knows-whom. It didn’t indeed mention anything about the explosions. I recall even recommending him to write to the publication editors to express his dismay. But what is it indicative of - the lack of journalistic integrity, the absence of the verifiable facts from their perspective? What is the point that you are trying to make here? I find that remark of yours about the “lifted verbatim” totally out of the context of the issue being discussed.

Vartan Oskanian is the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Armenia. He has no control over the quarries. I don’t even know if the quarries are state controlled or privately held. Any state has beurocratic machine, and frequently it is difficult to push things fast through such machine. The information received from some technical experts has been that the explosions of the magnitude practiced could not have had significant impact on the monuments of Ani. It may be that physically this argument may have been faulty. I don’t know. However, it is a logical and legitimate argument, and without verifiable information, one may be inclined to take it for a fact, if not to consider the potential political demagoguery. The fact of the matter is that no evidence (and I am not trying to demagogue the issue, here) has been presented to the Armenian Government, and to the best of my knowledge to any serious Armenian organization. Nor The Cat has introduced or presented any evidence about the damage of these explosions, regardless of whether he has that evidence or not. I have visited his web site at the time of our previous discussion, and have found only a small paragraph about the “fat-cat” Armenians building mansions using the stone of Ani quarries for the prestige of it. First of all, I find that declaration very unprofessional and out of the context. And it is substandard material for his own site, which otherwise is a very good one. He tells us that he has written about it to “some Armenian architectural organization a year or so ago.” I would like to know what organization, and I would go after them. There is a Union of Architectures of Armenia. It is an influential organization. Is this the one? I doubt it, because then he would’ve remembered the name. Has he appealed to any other Armenian organizations? I am not aware of it. After all, it is not his sole obligation “to save our culture,” right?

Instead of documenting and presenting factual evidence, he is talking about the propagation of sonic waves, which from the scientific point is a total absurd.

As far as the cracks are concerned, I don’t recall The Cat presenting that argument ever, until the escalation of the argument (and that is by him in a totally schizophrenic manner). No one was arguing the fact of the explosions, nor he had introduced even an opinion earlier that there were cracks, per se, as a result of the explosions. That there may have or may be damage to the structures, it is acceptable. But where has he presented that evidence or alluded the information, again? What has he tried to do, as an informed and involved person, to stop the explosions? Go ballistic when it is not warranted?

Finally, the argument here is not about the quarries being harmful. Whether they are harmful or not, there are other methods of extracting stone, which has been exercised even in the past. It is about those who have evidence about the damage presenting it on a non political, professional level, and facilitating solution to the problem, rather than ventilating about it, especially given that the other side has no way to observe it first hand.

 

I typed this material in a hasty manner, but I hope that my point was clear.

[ThornyRose]

It must have been the 30th of July – Steve was still in Turkey on the 30th of June.

Unfortunately, because I lost my former hard-disk a few weeks ago, I have no records of what I had been told – I had noted them down.

I had told only Steve at the time, because, obviously, I wanted to learn more or be given ideas as to what more to ask before I could present things in an orderly fashion.

Steve, do you still have that e-mail I sent you?

That’s for when the blasting was continuing. I had specifically asked the lady if the blasting was continuing, and she had given me that affirmative answer, saying she had actually been there in Ani with her boss at the time.

 

Whether the “fact-finding” delegation was allowed or not, the quarrying had to stop in the face of the controversy – and it didn’t.

 

As for the article by who-knows-whom... I think there was lack of journalistic integrity. And that remark by Steve was not out of context, because it pointed out an attitude, namely, not only the inability to auto-criticize but also harbouring a knee-jerk reaction – leaving out that part which mentions the quarries and the observed/possible/likely (in order of uncertainty) harm. I need not be an Armenian to criticize the Turkish side for its lack of professionalism. That same journalist didn’t have to be Turkish to criticize the miners and their benefactors for their lack of responsibility. Even a mention of the ongoing issue would have been appropriate.

 

I know who Vartan Oskanian is. But they got him involved, nevertheless, did they not, in the UNESCO appeal situation? He must (?) have appealed to his counterparts in whatever ministry responsible.

 

Steve HAS mentioned the damages observed over the past two years, on his site. They are there. The not-so-scholarly (my opinion - I say so because Steve asked me to translate a report by her on her work at the Fire Temple) archaeologist, Beyhan Karamağaralı, has also observed such. It is on one of the articles I skimmed through yesterday while composing this:

http://www.vestris.com/cgi-agnes/one/agnes...+3264.1.1.1.1.1

That article is mentioned here on Hye Forum: /cgi-bin/forum/ultim...ic&f=1&t=000385

 

Whether there can be significant damages or not – the word “significant” without a proper look has little bearing, as those monuments are fragile, and it is not at the disposal of the experts on the Armenian side of the border to see how fragile they are. An impending crack may have been hastened. So, yes, I agree with your saying that it should have been taken for fact.

 

As for the quarries’ being harmful or not and what other extraction methods there are – companies do not purchase new machinery, reassess their plans, and what-not when there are complaints. Take the limestone quarries here, for example – you had to have the experts come in, take their measurements, etc., and only after that did the company invest in rippers. Given what was told me by that assistant, I don’t think that that company, either, has been fast to get itself new equipment.

I wish I could go to Anıtsal myself on Friday to bring some more clarity to this situation (i.e., until when have the explosions continued, and what can info/examples can they give me about the damage). Yet, whenever I call them up, Fikri Bey is out and about – in Isparta, in Iğdır, wherever. I hope he is slowing his pace down because of the season. Maybe just talking to the assistant face to face would suffice if I could make the time? I have an exam on Friday afternoon and then may have to go to the plant where I “worked” this summer with my buddy and one instructor to talk to the technical coordinator and see if we could arrange for a “field trip” there (high school style, ehehehe).

 

What I would really have loved to have done – I would love to convince that blasting expert I mentioned earlier to go to Kars and take some measurements. But that is impossible, really. :- Just wishful thinking of my own... Who would take a little girl seriously? And my elders aren’t aware of the situation (let alone interested) to do me a favour.

[15levels]

Photo exhibition of Armenian monuments on the territory of neighbor states opened in Armenian parliament

 

Caspian News Agency

Mon 22 Oct 2001

 

Yerevan, October 22, 2001. (CNA). Photo exhibition of Armenian monuments on the territory of neighbor states - Turkey, Azebaijan, Georgia and Iran, in particular, opened in Armenian parliament within

the frames of session of PACE committee for culture, science and youth.

 

200 Armenian churches and monasteries on the territory of Turkey were burned and some 2150 ruined in the beginning of XX century, press release of the exhibition reads. According to UNESCO information for 1974, 464 of 913 Armenian buildings were wipe off the earth, 252 - ruined, 197 needs general repair.

 

As for Azerbaijan, 21 Armenian buildings, among which churches, monasteries, chapels, Armenian cemeteries were destroyed and burned

since 1998. In Nakhichevan destruction of 800 khachkars (stone crosses) and 250 monasteries was prevented. In Georgia 80 Armenian culture monuments were crushed as well.

 

The only exception is Iran. The authorities of Iran undertake urgent steps for rescuing the Armenian churches and monastic complexes. So, in 2000 under the initiative of Iranian government the works for St.

Tadevos the Apostle monastic complex's restoration started. Moreover, the Iranian government suggested UNESCO to include this cloister to the list of memorials under the aegis of UNESCO. Meanwhile, the Armenian Public TV reports that the Azeri representative, who was present at the session in Yerevan, blamed Armenia of unilateral revealing the problem. He said that the similar problem stands before

Azerbaijan, which memorials of cultural heritage are being destroyed in Nagorny Artsax, and promised the participants of the session to represent the appropriate photo documents. EEOK

[bellthecat]

Have you read NOTHING on the subject? There has been nothing BUT cover-up from Armenia.



MJ, your distortions are getting too much now. Nowhere did I use the phrase "fat-cat Armenians" My exact words on the website are:

The Stone Quarry

In 1999 a quarry was opened on the Armenian side of the border (directly opposite the Cathedral) to extract stone to clad Yerevan's new cathedral. This cathedral is being built to mark the 1700th anniversary of the Armenian state's conversion to Christianity, and it was decided to use "Ani stone" as a gimmick to attract the rich foreign donors needed to pay for the construction. It is unlikely this quarry will be closed when the cathedral is finished - there are plenty of politicians and criminals in Yerevan who would like the cache of having a mansion built of stone from Ani.
In addition to the obvious environmental damage to the landscape and constant sound of heavy machinery, with each explosion from this quarry the fragile buildings in Ani literally shake.




RAA: (Research on Armenian Architecture), with offices in Armenia, Germany, and America. I do not want you to "go after" anyone - you seem incapable of reasoned thought on this subject, and would do more damage than good.

[MJ]

Cat,

 

I have just a couple of minutes. Will be brief. Have a long trip ahead of me:

 

1. About the cover-up.

 

Unless you present adequate evidence, and unless I am recommended to discount

what you say as another “steam releasing” endeavor, I am going to call you a liar.

 

2. Nowhere have I said that you have used the expressions “fat-cat” in this paragraph. I have used your favorite expression to point here to those, who allegedly are building mansions using the stone from the quarries. However, I would reiterate that this paragraph of your is very unprofessional, and substandard even for your site (and I think your site is an excellent one, overall). And as far as the “presenting the evidence” is concerned, if this is the level at which you normally present evidence, I wouldn’t be surprised that you would not achieve any results.

 

3. If you had elementary ability to make sound judgments in such matters (let me borrow your phraseology), you would’ve not appealed to a research institution (see Research on Armenian Architecture, which I have never heard of, for example), and would’ve figured out where you had to appeal and how.

 

 

4. As far as my distortions are concerned, if you where indeed a Cat, and the

distortion was water, you would’ve died of thirst before receiving that water

from me.

 

5. About me "not mobilizing anyone, and rather not doing anything." I understand you so well. Sure you would find better if I start venting over the Internet and spewing venom about who might be making moeny out of the allegedly existing problem, rather than doing something about it, right?

 

I will reply to Thorny, when I can commit time to reading here last posting carefully.

 

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[ThornyRose]

E-mail? I didn't send you e-mail, MJ.

[MJ]

Thorny,

I was talking about your posting above, which I have not addressed, yet.

P.S. My mistake, Thorny. I am running late. Now I really have to go so that to hit home at least at midnight.

[ November 08, 2001: Message edited by: MJ ]

[ThornyRose]

Dipshit! What has he done to ask for the reciprocal?

[bellthecat]

This "information" comes (I think) from a book published in 1974 from the self-styled "Permanent Peoples Tribunal". Exactly what their connection to UNESCO was is never made clear. In the book, where they got these figures from is also unclear, however the figures given ARE just pulled from the air - nobody had visited any of the allegedly destroyed or allegedly still surviving monuments.



Why "since 1998". do they actually mean "since 1988"? And if they do the figure seems surprisingly small.


In Nakhichevan destruction of 800 khachkars (stone crosses) and 250 monasteries was prevented.