AK-47 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Turkish President isn’t empowered to decide himself whether to visit Armenia or not /PanARMENIAN.Net/ Armenia’s President made a brave step by inviting Turkish President Gul to Yerevan, Khosrov Harutyunyan, head of Christian Democratic Union of Armenia, told a PanARMENIAN.Net reporter. “Contacts, specifically at the level of heads of state, are essential for normalization of the Armenian-Turkish relations,” he said. “As to President Sargsyan’s statement on possibility of formation of an Armenian-Turkish commission, I wonder why no one quotes the statement up to the end. The President said ‘formation of a commission after opening of the border’. We all know that the fact of the Armenian Genocide will not vanish with formation of new commissions. Moreover, new details may be revealed,” Harutyunyan said. “President of Turkey depends on his party and allies in NATO and the U.S. He can’t take decisions independently,” said the head of Christian Democratic Union of Armenia,” he added. During a recent meeting with representatives of the Armenian community of Moscow, President Sargsyan said he will take steps for normalizing relations with Turkey. “I will probably invite Turkish President to Yerevan to attend the match between our soccer teams,” he said. Source: http://www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=26499 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Tiptoeing the Turkish tightrope: Sargsyan sees mixed reaction at home after Moscow statements President Serzh Sargsyan’s statements on Armenia’s relations with Turkey made while on a recent official visit to Russia elicited a negative reaction from the opposition and at least one pro-government party at home. Meeting representatives of the Armenian Diaspora in Moscow early last week, Sargsyan, in particular, unveiled his plans to invite Turkish President Abdullah Gul to Yerevan in September to watch together an upcoming World Cup qualifier between the two countries’ national teams. The move was received enthusiastically by U.S. Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian Affairs Matthew Bryza, who is the American co-chair of the Minsk Group of the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), an international format seeking a negotiated peace in Nagorno-Artsax. The proposal was also positively assessed by Bryza’s wife, Zeyno Baran, a Turkish-American scholar who currently heads the Center for Eurasian Policy at the Hudson Institute. The top-selling Turkish daily Hurriyet wrote about “a positive raction in Ankara” but reported that no official invitiation had been received in Turkey yet. However, it is Sargsyan’s statement in which he in principle accepted Turkey’s proposal on forming a panel of historians to review the events of early last century that raised most disgruntled voices. “We are not against the establishment of such a commission, but only when the border between our states is opened,” Sargsyan said. The Turkish government’s proposal in 2005 to form a joint commisison of historians to review the correspondence of the early 20th century events in Ottoman Turkey to the notion “genocide” was rejected as unacceptable by Armenia’s then president Robert Kocharyan. And now Armenia’s main opposition groups accuse the head of state of questioning the very fact of genocide by accepting the Turkish proposal in principle. The Armenian Revolutionary Federation (ARF), a coalition partner with Sargsyan’s Republican Party, also expressed its position on Sargsyan’s statements, reiterating its hard line on relations with Turkey. “I think that if the president of Turkey visits Yerevan, at least one part of our society will express its attitude,” ARF Bureau spokesman Giro Manoyan said in an interview with RFE/RL Monday. Manoyan also said that they had received “the necessary explanation and clarification” from the president regarding his statement on the possibility of establishing an Armenian-Turkish commission. “But in any case, our approach is that there was no need to make such statements and create this confusion in the first place,” Manoyan said. Earlier, Foreign Minister Edward Nalbandyan said that Sargsyan’s statement “does not mean that Armenia renounces former president Robert Kocharyan’s step on including the Genocide issue on the foreign policy agenda.” And Sargsyan’s press secretary Samvel Farmanyan argued that the president’s words were clear and left no room for misunderstanding: “There was a proposal from Turkey to set up an expert commission to study historical facts concerning the genocide. We are not against any studies, even studies of patently obvious and widely recognized realities. However, the formation of such a commission would be logical only after establishing diplomatic relations and opening borders.” Source: http://armenianow.com/?action=viewArticle&...ng&IID=1193 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 I think Serzh Sargsyan turned the table around and put the ball back in Turkey's court by this move. Turkey was using this suggestion of establishing a commision and blackmailing Armenia that it was not for peace and dialogue, since 2005. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 (edited) I think Serzh Sargsyan turned the table around and put the ball back in Turkey's court by this move. Turkey was using this suggestion of establishing a commision and blackmailing Armenia that it was not for peace and dialogue, since 2005. Good observation Yervant. You said it better than I could. Yes, let us see what kind of "history-schmistory" those clowns are talking about. Except. We have to be very careful. Send experts who can speak with a "language" legible by all concerned, incuding third parties, not those with a vocabulary of swear words and insults, rather armed with archives and documents, not only compiled by us but by so called neutral third pary eyewitnesses, including their comrades in crime, the Germans. Let us see when an Armenian, any Armenian killed a "furk", a Kurd or any other except in self defense, a statute that even the US Supreme Court upholds as justifiable.. Not to send those predetermined, predestined sense of defeat and a "position of wekaness". Let us invite the world media and let them be the judge and referee. They claim that Armenians massacred milions of "muslims". One can only wish! That is if every Armenian man woman and child had a lethal instrument. Yes! Let us chase them as far as they can run and hide behind thos zillions of propaganda dollars, which sadly enough is contriuted by taxpayers of Armenian heritage. Can we Americans and Canadians boycott the IRS and stop paying taxes until they stop subsidizing (among others) that welfare state known as Ankara??? Edited July 1, 2008 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Good observation Yervant. You said it better than I could. Yes, let us see what kind of "history-schmistory" those clowns are talking about. Except. We have to be very careful. Send experts who can speak with a "language" legible by all concerned, incuding third parties, not those with a vocabulary of swear words and insults, rather armed with archives and documents, not only compiled by us but by so called neutral third pary eyewitnesses, including their comrades in crime, the Germans. Let us see when an Armenian, any Armenian killed a "furk", a Kurd or any other except in self defense, a statute that even the US Supreme Court upholds as justifiable.. Not to send those predetermined, predestined sense of defeat and a "position of wekaness". Let us invite the world media and let them be the judge and referee. They claim that Armenians massacred milions of "muslims". One can only wish! That is if every Armenian man woman and child had a lethal instrument. Yes! Let us chase them as far as they can run and hide behind thos zillions of propaganda dollars, which sadly enough is contriuted by taxpayers of Armenian heritage. Can we Americans and Canadians boycott the IRS and stop paying taxes until they stop subsidizing (among others) that welfare state known as Ankara??? In my opinion Turkey knew very well what the answer will be by Armenians, before they made that offer and carried out the big propaganda that their archives are open and they have nothing to hide. Remember what happened during the TARC meetings when they agreed to send the issue to IJT whether it was Genocide or not. When they got the answer didn't know how to run, with their tails between their legs. I'm a firm beleiver that no matter what kind of talks we have with them on an international level they will lose because the truth is out there, all we have to do is show it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Remember what happened during the TARC meetings when they agreed to send the issue to IJT whether it was Genocide or not. When they got the answer didn't know how to run, with their tails between their legs. Pardon my ignorance but I'm not familiar with that event. What happened? I've been wondering if it's possible to take them to the Hague over the issue and if it is, as to why we don't do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Pardon my ignorance but I'm not familiar with that event. What happened? I've been wondering if it's possible to take them to the Hague over the issue and if it is, as to why we don't do it? Read the last part of this "Conclusion" at the end. http://www.ictj.org/images/content/7/5/759.pdf In my opinion Hague is more of a political place than judicial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted July 1, 2008 Report Share Posted July 1, 2008 Read the last part of this "Conclusion" at the end. http://www.ictj.org/images/content/7/5/759.pdf Merci Yervant, shad lav lour er asiga. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted July 2, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 (edited) I think Johannes above has expressed very well the huge pitfalls of being sucked into such a game. I say it again that any so-called commission is nothing but a way to obfuscate the matter in such a long drawn-out manner that it will give the luxury of time for Turkey while her allies (which exert considerable power in international politics) will do their best to work towards burying the issue into oblivion, literally, therefore become very efficient in successfully forcing other nations into a "wait and see" mode, ad infinitum. A perfect example of how an academic study on this matter stays just an opinion on paper is the above mentioned ICTJ pronouncement on the factuality of the genocide. What happened after is a clear indication of political forces (not historical forces) having done their best to ignore or burry it completely. Even George Bush, as President, referred to ICTJ as a source of information but ignored it nonetheless and continued calling the genocide as "tragic events". I'm afraid what Sargsyan is really after here is an international (read: US) acceptance and endorsement of his presidency and has shown that he, as President of Armenia, is ready for "negotiations" and therefore gives a clear hint of flexibility on such a "sacred cow" that the genocide is to Armenians. This issue smells more of saving his own neck instead of being a "statesman". I would be ecstatic to be 100% wrong. Edited July 2, 2008 by Z'areh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted July 2, 2008 Report Share Posted July 2, 2008 In my opinion Turkey knew very well what the answer will be by Armenians, before they made that offer and carried out the big propaganda that their archives are open and they have nothing to hide. Remember what happened during the TARC meetings when they agreed to send the issue to IJT whether it was Genocide or not. When they got the answer didn't know how to run, with their tails between their legs. I'm a firm beleiver that no matter what kind of talks we have with them on an international level they will lose because the truth is out there, all we have to do is show it. Exactly. This has been my point since the beginning. We should not be afraid of cheap tricks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted July 5, 2008 Report Share Posted July 5, 2008 TURKEY NOT READY TO RECOGNIZE THE GENOCIDE OF ARMENIANS Gevorg Harutyunyan Hayots Ashkhar Daily Published on July 04, 2008 Armenia Director of the Institute of Oriental Studies of the National Academy of Sciences, Turkologist Ruben Safrastyan is the interlocutor of "Hayots Ashkharh" daily. "Mr. Safrastyan at this stage of the geo-political developments what peculiarities do Armenian-Turkish relations have?" "We must record that Turkey's attitude towards Armenia is at clarification stage in the condition of the aggravation of the country's internal-political situation. As we know the ruling party "Justice and Development" is facing different charges. Besides that, recently the sector of the Turkish secret organization named "Ergenekon" was revealed. The goal of the organization is to stage a military coup d'état in Turkey. Ex-military-men, influential figures, Generals and representatives of Turkish elite are the members of the before mentioned organization, by the name of a Turkish epos. In fact it is the regular attempt of the traditional Turkish kemaly elite to maintain power. The thing is there is a struggle between two pro-governmental groupings in Turkey. The newly formed elite united with the pro-governmental "Justice and Development" party is struggling against the kemaly elite that has been in power for decades. This struggle has created great tension in Turkey's internal political life. In such conditions the government in power did certain steps regarding Armenian Turkish relations, aimed at gaining the support of the West, especially the USA. It is not a secret that for many years the USA puts pressure on Turkey to open the borders with Armenia. In this context, it's worth mentioning that the victory of Democratic Presidential Candidate Barrack Obama is becoming quite possible. Turkish analysts preview that in this case it will be impossible to avert the adoption of resolution 106 in the Congress. It is not accidental that the representatives of Turkish Foreign Ministry met with Obama's counselors, during which according to our information the Americans recommended their Turkish partners to elaborate another program of Armenian-Turkish relations. The Turks will most probably try to create delusion among American democracy as if they are doing their best to improve relations with Armenia." "Why delusion? Doesn't Turkish people, society, or the authorities want to have regular relations with Armenia?" "In my view Turkey is not ready for principled changed in their policy regarding Armenia. According to Turkey Armenia must announce that it doesn't have any territorial demands towards Turkey and that it recognizes Kars agreement, that it is ready for unilateral concessions regarding Karabakh, refuses the goal of the recognition of the Genocide of Armenians and will remove this issue from its foreign policy. Of course the latter is the most important issue for Turkey. But we must also record that Armenian historians and the specialists have already recognized the fact of the Genocide. American scientist's society doesn't accept Turkish stance saying that the fact of the Genocide is disputable. The US leadership also accepts the fact of the Genocide, but not officially, taking into account their state interests. But in the very near future the USA will have to officially recognize the Genocide of Armenians. In this regard Turkey intimidates that it will break off with the USA and will use sanctions, but it is of course ridiculous. And the USA in its turn recommends Turkey not to lose face and to find serious solutions." "Recently OSCE Parliamentary Assembly adopted Turkey's proposal, according to which the Parliaments of the member countries must encourage the idea of the formation of the joint committees of the countries with disputable issues, to conduct historical investigations. Thus many issues will be solved." "Still in 2005, when Erdoghan sent a letter to our President to set up a committee of historians, Armenia officially responded that we are ready to set up a committee to study all the spheres. In my view this is the only way to bilaterally discuss, all the existing problems and achieve results. In case of setting up a committee of historians, believe me, Armenia will never agree to making the issue of the Genocide of Armenians a matter of discussion. We are ready to discuss the reasons and consequences of the Genocide in the framework of historical facts. But before the discussion there should be a certain consensus. For scientific dispute there are certain principles that must be mutually agreed upon. Otherwise the discussion is senseless." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z'areh Posted July 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2008 TURKEY NOT READY TO RECOGNIZE THE GENOCIDE OF ARMENIANS Gevorg Harutyunyan Hayots Ashkhar Daily Published on July 04, 2008 Armenia Director of the Institute of Oriental Studies of the National Academy of Sciences, Turkologist Ruben Safrastyan is the interlocutor of "Hayots Ashkharh" daily. "Mr. Safrastyan at this stage of the geo-political developments what peculiarities do Armenian-Turkish relations have?" "We must record that Turkey's attitude towards Armenia is at clarification stage in the condition of the aggravation of the country's internal-political situation. As we know the ruling party "Justice and Development" is facing different charges. Besides that, recently the sector of the Turkish secret organization named "Ergenekon" was revealed. The goal of the organization is to stage a military coup d'état in Turkey. Ex-military-men, influential figures, Generals and representatives of Turkish elite are the members of the before mentioned organization, by the name of a Turkish epos. In fact it is the regular attempt of the traditional Turkish kemaly elite to maintain power. The thing is there is a struggle between two pro-governmental groupings in Turkey. The newly formed elite united with the pro-governmental "Justice and Development" party is struggling against the kemaly elite that has been in power for decades. This struggle has created great tension in Turkey's internal political life. In such conditions the government in power did certain steps regarding Armenian Turkish relations, aimed at gaining the support of the West, especially the USA. It is not a secret that for many years the USA puts pressure on Turkey to open the borders with Armenia. In this context, it's worth mentioning that the victory of Democratic Presidential Candidate Barrack Obama is becoming quite possible. Turkish analysts preview that in this case it will be impossible to avert the adoption of resolution 106 in the Congress. It is not accidental that the representatives of Turkish Foreign Ministry met with Obama's counselors, during which according to our information the Americans recommended their Turkish partners to elaborate another program of Armenian-Turkish relations. The Turks will most probably try to create delusion among American democracy as if they are doing their best to improve relations with Armenia." "Why delusion? Doesn't Turkish people, society, or the authorities want to have regular relations with Armenia?" "In my view Turkey is not ready for principled changed in their policy regarding Armenia. According to Turkey Armenia must announce that it doesn't have any territorial demands towards Turkey and that it recognizes Kars agreement, that it is ready for unilateral concessions regarding Artsax, refuses the goal of the recognition of the Genocide of Armenians and will remove this issue from its foreign policy. Of course the latter is the most important issue for Turkey. But we must also record that Armenian historians and the specialists have already recognized the fact of the Genocide. American scientist's society doesn't accept Turkish stance saying that the fact of the Genocide is disputable. The US leadership also accepts the fact of the Genocide, but not officially, taking into account their state interests. But in the very near future the USA will have to officially recognize the Genocide of Armenians. In this regard Turkey intimidates that it will break off with the USA and will use sanctions, but it is of course ridiculous. And the USA in its turn recommends Turkey not to lose face and to find serious solutions." "Recently OSCE Parliamentary Assembly adopted Turkey's proposal, according to which the Parliaments of the member countries must encourage the idea of the formation of the joint committees of the countries with disputable issues, to conduct historical investigations. Thus many issues will be solved." "Still in 2005, when Erdoghan sent a letter to our President to set up a committee of historians, Armenia officially responded that we are ready to set up a committee to study all the spheres. In my view this is the only way to bilaterally discuss, all the existing problems and achieve results. In case of setting up a committee of historians, believe me, Armenia will never agree to making the issue of the Genocide of Armenians a matter of discussion. We are ready to discuss the reasons and consequences of the Genocide in the framework of historical facts. But before the discussion there should be a certain consensus. For scientific dispute there are certain principles that must be mutually agreed upon. Otherwise the discussion is senseless." Again, this is a non-starter, because this, the highlighted segment, is what we want not what they (Turkey and all the members of OSCE). When they are talking about formation of a commission it is specifically to discuss whether genocide occurred or not, they might as well come to that conclusion in the future but as of today only the Armenian side is saying, with certainty, that it was a genocide, the others have bought the Turkish logic in spite of some countries official recognition of the genocide, this is the reality of today no matter what spin Armenian expert put on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK-47 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Dashnaks Warn Sarkisian Over Armenian Genocide Study http://www.armenialiberty.org/images/photo/Dashnak-congress2.jpg By Emil Danielyan In a clear warning to President Serzh Sarkisian, the Armenian Revolutionary Federation (Dashnaktsutyun) on Tuesday reaffirmed its strong opposition to the idea of Turkish and Armenian historians jointly determining whether the mass killings of Armenians in the Ottoman Empire constituted a genocide. The idea was floated by Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan in a 2005 letter to then President Robert Kocharian. Kocharian rejected it, saying that this and other issues of mutual concern should be tackled by the two governments, rather than a Turkish-Armenian commission of historians. Sarkisian said late last month that Yerevan will not oppose the creation of such a commission if Turkey unconditionally establishes diplomatic relations and opens its land border with Armenia. Armenia’s leading opposition groups were quick to condemn the apparent policy change, saying that by accepting Ankara’s proposal in principle Sarkisian called into question the very fact of what many historians regard as the first genocide of the 20th century. The opposition concerns were echoed by Dashnaktsutyun, which is represented in Sarkisian’s coalition government and is known for its hard line on Armenia’s relations with Turkey. The party demanded and received an explanation from the presidential administration. According to a top party spokesman, Sarkisian has clarified that he believes the would-be commission should not determine whether or not a genocide occurred in 1915-1918 and should instead research “various details of the genocide.” Despite these assurances, the issue was on the agenda of the first session of Dashnaktsutyun’s recently elected governing Bureau held from July 3-8. “The Bureau is adamant that the fact of the Armenian genocide is not a subject of discussion, and no high-ranking official representing Armenia may have a different approach,” it said in a statement. “Universal recognition of the genocide is vital for the existence, security and future of our people and statehood.” Source: http://www.armenialiberty.org/armeniarepor...14C42946737.ASP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DominO123 Posted July 9, 2008 Report Share Posted July 9, 2008 Any commission set to study what happened rather than how it happened is a compleat waste of time, which is useless, worthless and a joke. Refusing such a thing is not because of fear, but because it would be a sound thing to do and prevent another farce. Genocide, no genocide, 60,000, 600,000, 800,000, 1,5 million, 2,500,000... We have the conclusion of such a predictable commission, so what's the point of having one. Turkey want's to sell its sausage and make the news report about a fictif controversy on the decision of whatever or not it was a genocide. Lets have such a commission brought by the Flat Eart society to decide whatever or not Earth is flat or not. Just accepting such a commission suggest that there is any rational alternative to spherical Earth. If they want a comission on how it happened in a constructive matter, leave college faculties around the world prepare lectures, conferences about those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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