Translation Required

[lizchater]

Hi, I wonder if any of you can help me please? The attached 2 photos are of the baptism register of the Armenian Church in Kolkata. I would like to know what the entries say for No. 138 and No. 139. the entries are over the two pages.

Many thanks in advance

Liz

[Arpa]

A little fuzzy.

Here is what I could make out.

138... Soufia/Sophia gender F, parent Bedros Bashanian(?)

139... Khachatr, Male, parent Serop Khachatri**, there is also a scribble that looks like Peters.

But wow! Look at line 144... Mikael M., parent Hovsep Emin. However this cannot be the Hovsep as he was born 1726 and died 1809. These may be a grandson and son respectively.

I wonder if anyone else can see more cearly.

** So, Liz, it seems like the surname "chater" is derived from "khachatr/khachatour". At a previous post I was wondering whether it was from "chaterian"

Edited December 21, 2007 by Arpa

[lizchater]

Hi, thanks for that. Can you tell me what the dates are that are mentioned please?

 

Re Michael Emin. Having just checked my database this Michael was indeed a grandson of the famous Joseph Emin.

 

 

Yes the Chater name is derived from Khachatour but I have also found it derived from Astvatsatouryan. I think the spelling in the various ways was probably down to the official who recorded it at the time, pehaps not knowing how to spell what he was being told, but too awkward to ask

Regards

Liz

[Arpa]

Hi, thanks for that. Can you tell me what the dates are that are mentioned please?

===

Regards

Liz

I was trying to artfully dodge that issue.

Can you zoom and blow up each and every segment?

Of course, the year and the day of the month are clear, however the names of the months are abridged and in the day's cursive , I can't make them. Sometimes it looks like DKR=December, and at other times like Apl=April.

"Astvatsatouryan" is usually reduced to "Astourian/Asatourian". I don't think Indians would mistake S with CH, even if they can't pronounce F and V. They may have dropped the initial KHA of Khachatrian/Khachaterian, wether it may have meant somethimg unsavory or an unnecessary prefix.

And as far as non-Armenians corrupting Armenian sur-names... we, those who have lived in Arab countries are keenly aware of it. Many examples. Another subject. In short. They tpp, just like the Indians don't have equivalents to all the sounds of the Armenian Alphabet.

Note; Look at all the Indian surnames like "chaterj/chadourjii" , which in fact means "tent maker" like Omar.

Edited December 21, 2007 by Arpa

[lizchater]

I was trying to artfully dodge that issue.

Can you zoom and blow up each and every segment?

 

Hi, Thanks for your reply. I have cropped the photos, so hopefully you should be able to see them a bit better.

 

Re naming convention. I don't know if it's common within the Armenian community generally, but in India what they tended to do was change the surname slightly when the next generation married, to help differentiate between the families. So in my case I have found Astvatsatouryan changed to Astour, Astourian, Satour and many other derivatives! Another example, with the name Manuk, that family has been such a headache to trace because not only did THEY change their name spelling but officials at baptism or marriages, who perhaps couldn't spell that well in the first place would also change the names! In once instance, I found a baptism record that clearly said the father's surname was MANUK, yet the child's surname was written as MANOUK and the same child, when marrying some years later changed it again to MANOOK.

 

So to a certain extent you were at the mercy of the officials writing the registers as well as family desires to be different!

 

Best wishes

Liz