Tamzara, Tammuz-ara?

[hagopn]

It's fascinating that this odd meter dance, one of a favorite dances for us Armenians,

is rooted in the redundant deity name of Tammuz-Ara (Babylo/Assyrian-Armenian)?

 

Why didn't I think of that??? LOL

[hagopn]

It's fascinating that this odd meter dance, one of a favorite dances for us Armenians,

is rooted in the redundant deity name of Tammuz-Ara (Babylo/Assyrian-Armenian)?

 

Why didn't I think of that??? LOL

 

Oh, here's another nice classicesque arrangement that features a Shvi

 

Nice, nice, nice.

[MosJan]

Hagop jan es der ardun es ??

 

Arax@ iskapes Hoyakap gorts e katarel

 

iys a anush Zullal HAykakan Meghedy e

 

Hagop yerb es handipelu ?? achq@s jampit mnats, tnashen

[Ani]

Es gisher..Lusnyak gisher...

 

[hagopn]

Es gisher..Lusnyak gisher...

 

 

Nice. Thank you.

[hagopn]

Hagop jan es der ardun es ??

 

Arax@ iskapes Hoyakap gorts e katarel

 

iys a anush Zullal HAykakan Meghedy e

 

Hagop yerb es handipelu ?? achq@s jampit mnats, tnashen

 

Araxn a nvagum? Զուլալ կատարում է, իսկականից:

 

Այ, աղբեր, այց մի աքանի օրերը պետութիւն, մետութիւն ենք խաղացնում, հարկ են տալիս... Մի քիչ էլ տանջվեմ, ու կգամ--

[Ani]

It's fascinating that this odd meter dance, one of a favorite dances for us Armenians,

is rooted in the redundant deity name of Tammuz-Ara (Babylo/Assyrian-Armenian)?

 

Why didn't I think of that??? LOL

 

 

Anush & Inga have a song called Tamzara, with Vanush Khanamiryan in the video...Not on youtube...

[hagopn]

Anush & Inga have a song called Tamzara, with Vanush Khanamiryan in the video...Not on youtube...

 

I know which one you're talking about. It's a nice song, but it is not really a Tamzara--- The Tamzara is a 9/8 rhythm dance, and has numerous variations among Armenians. According to Mr. Chookasian there, the name of the dance comes from Tammuz and Ara.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tammuz Are any of us going to create a Wiki article on Ara??

[Johannes]

Չուկասըզեանը Սեբաստացի է ծագումով: Սեբաստիոյ նահանգին մէջ մեծ գիւղ կար «Թամզարա» անունով:

 

 

[Harut]

It's fascinating that this odd meter dance, one of a favorite dances for us Armenians,

is rooted in the redundant deity name of Tammuz-Ara (Babylo/Assyrian-Armenian)?

 

Why didn't I think of that??? LOL

 

i dont' understand what's so great about tamzara... i never liked it... it's one of the most boring dances that armenians perform... i've yet to see a tamzara performance which has soul and passion it... plus, "if there is a dance that's synonimus to armenian dance, that's tamzara"??? i REALLY don't think so...

[Zartonk]

The Armenian heart gets bored with regular meters Edited January 19, 2008 by Zartonk

[hagopn]

i dont' understand what's so great about tamzara... i never liked it... it's one of the most boring dances that armenians perform... i've yet to see a tamzara performance which has soul and passion it... plus, "if there is a dance that's synonimus to armenian dance, that's tamzara"??? i REALLY don't think so...

 

Ah, but there are many varieties of this dance. I think we'll be playing a Tamzara piece that I will be arranging on the telethon. watch us there--

[Anoushik]

Ah, but there are many varieties of this dance. I think we'll be playing a Tamzara piece that I will be arranging on the telethon. watch us there--

That's so cool. Definitely let us know what time you'll be playing so we (or I) won't miss it!

[hagopn]

The Armenian heart gets bored with regular meters

 

Yes sir, you are correct! -- OK, since

 

The 6/8 we play is actually a polyrhythm of 2 dotted 1/4s over 3 1/4 s.

 

Here's a good one for you, a rhythm (10/8) that Kharberttsi's love to death, but one that was popular in the entire belt from Tsopk to Balu:

It's a very bad example of this, but here is the only one from UToob I could find.

 

Here is a 7/8, also categorized by Soviet "commissars" as simply "fishermen's dances", which is actually more than likely Hamsheni,

, Why do I say this despite the fact that our musicians here choose to label it "Laz havasi"? Because the Hamsheni are the ones who have the greatest variety of improvised standards, and they are the ones who dance the darn thing the best. They have 5/8/, 7/8 versions of all these improvisations. Babert/Sper has some fantastic music.

 

These are so badly played and recorded, that there is no way you'll get the true spirit of these dynamic dances from these videos. yet, since this is the only examples they have posted, so be it. At least you get the idea.

 

Harut says Tamzara is boring. He's right, if he judges it from what they customarily perform in these "kef time" outings here. But, I tell you that Spiridon Melikian, Komitas' student who collected these things more than his contemporary peers, described something else entirely. Also, the 9/8 rhtythm is not the only Tamzara form. There are 5/8, 11/8, 13/8 forms and combinations of these in improvisations collected. It's absolutely amazing stuff. I haven't run across anything else like it.

 

Melikian has collected kocharis that will blow you away if performed correctly and with the absolutely raw energy that they were performed with in their native regions.

 

Remember, these rhythms are native to our region, but for some reason much of our culture has been truncated out by policy during soviet times. Some very interesting stuff is left neglected, under-represented, or simply ignored.

Edited January 19, 2008 by Zartonk

[Harut]

when it comes to dances, i'm more of a zurrna-dhol person...

[Zartonk]

Anush & Inga have a song called Tamzara, with Vanush Khanamiryan in the video...Not on youtube...

 

Yup, good video.

[Zartonk]

Here is a 7/8, also categorized by Soviet "commissars" as simply "fishermen's dances", which is actually more than likely Hamsheni,

, Why do I say this despite the fact that our musicians here choose to label it "Laz havasi"? Because the Hamsheni are the ones who have the greatest variety of improvised standards, and they are the ones who dance the darn thing the best. They have 5/8/, 7/8 versions of all these improvisations. Babert/Sper has some fantastic music.

 

Good observation. The well-known fishermen's dance is most reminiscent of the rhythmic structures of the Black Sea coast, e.g. "Laz music".

 

I wish more study and record keeping would be done on the music of the Hamshenq. The way I see it, they have preserved in their traditions aspects of Armenian music that are all but entirely forgotten. By the fragments of the rhythmically complex dances that have reached us, we can make a leap and embrace the diversity of a lavish musical continuum and the pieces that once might have been. I mean, honestly, "Anatolian" and "a la Turk" are well recognized as having some of the best and most intriguing rhythmic pattern, so why don't we REALLY look into it?

 

Harut says Tamzara is boring. He's right, if he judges it from what they customarily perform in these "kef time" outings here.

 

You read the the script in my head. Really. These detuned-oud imitaions are injustie, I tell you! AND I LOVE OUD AND LUTE!

 

But, I tell you that Spiridon Melikian, Komitas' student who collected these things more than his contemporary peers, described something else entirely.

 

Which would be....?

Edited January 19, 2008 by Zartonk

[hagopn]

That's so cool. Definitely let us know what time you'll be playing so we (or I) won't miss it!

 

I played all day. Did you see it??? We didn't have a schedule, but the Tamzara quickie arrangement was played at around 4:30. They are going to release this stuff in CD and DVD format (and, even though they say $250 donation for CD and $500 for DVD is the going price, I think they will release it for public viewing on Utube and such.)

[hagopn]

Here is us at the Telethon

 

It's a rough brodcast (live) mix. The clean version is now being distributed to donors.

[vartanUSA]

I heard too many adaptation/version of tamzara especially in bands performing in our popular western world's Պարահանդէս so I was wondering if anyone has the actual or official sheet music score on this?

I want to learn to play it right on my KORG

If anyone can help me to dig out from internet in a picture or pdf format or tell me where to buy it I would appreciate.

 

[Zartonk]

Vartan jan, given that the folk dance is a single, basic melodic theme in compound triple meter (played by the clarinet

), regardless of tempo changes by THE 'barahandes' oud bands, that is essentially the common tamuzara if left without improvisation. I'll try searching for sheet music, so meanwhile, lets both tamzarify those keyboards

[aghzar]

there's no "official" sheet music to the tamzara....it's called a "folk song" buddy...its not like gomidas himself sat down one day and composed it on a sheet of paper lol......i mean it was passed down by oral tradition and every village or region has its own version, some of which dont even sound like the others. offhand i can think of the kghi tamzara, kharpert tamzara, yerznga tamzara, which are all different melodies. im sure there are many others. the one in this telethon video sounds like the version tom bozigian has on his cd...lyrics go "akhchig ndsadz ge garer siroon kouynavor khali", not sure where that one comes from.

 

the "standard" one as far as i am concerned is played here, this is the one played most often that i have noticed, also used on the oldest recordings i own (1920s). although this band needs some work, clarinet players not very good...

 

 

heres the kghi tamzara, played by some real masters, richard and khachig:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX6eZx9u4KQ

 

tom bozigian's version (music should play when site is opened):

 

http://www.bozigian.com/index.html

 

 

try going up and down the scale of A minor, its not too hard to figure out.

----------------

ok i found some sheet music, but i tried to play this on my clarinet and its seems like someone transcribed it the way someone else played it, with all the embellishements, etc, so its not very good for getting the simple melody...

 

http://folkloretanznoten.de/armenian.html

 

i dont know how trustworthy this website is but you can always test this sheet music by seeing if it sounds like other recordings.

 

zartonk how do you know the "barahantes oud bands" decreased the tempo? maybe these saxophone and electric guitar guys in the video increased it (no offense to them)...maybe its like every other armenian song, you keep getting faster and faster as you play....as far as i know so called barahantes oud bands are the main proponents of the tamzara anyways.

[vartanUSA]

there's no "official" sheet music to the tamzara....it's called a "folk song" buddy...its not like gomidas himself sat down one day and composed it on a sheet of paper lol......i mean it was passed down by oral tradition and every village or region has its own version, some of which dont even sound like the others. offhand i can think of the kghi tamzara, kharpert tamzara, yerznga tamzara, which are all different melodies. im sure there are many others. try going up and down the scale of A minor, its not too hard to figure out.

as i know so called barahantes oud bands are the main proponents of the tamzara anyways.

yes I know buddy this was not a trick question.

 

I play tamzara but I don't want to become another improvisator that's my whole point

each barahantes band do an improvisation which is not necessarily the same or either correct version of the original folk song even if this folk song has

1000 variations depending on the region in which it was invented!

actually I agree that the word "official" is an oxymoron I should never said that

I just wanted to know if there is an "accepted official" basic "skeleton" pattern scored on sheet that you know, that's all I asked.

(And that could have been published in a music lecture book or study guide somewhere who knows)

I am a big admirer of Gomidas Vartabed, I started singing in NY Gomidas Choir recently

and attaching his glorious name to tamzara in order to make a point is not even funny and failed totally

I need a sheet music because although I would guess the notes I will not accept to learn something by the ear period!

my focus is way beyond playing the music but also exploring our folk culture understand influences and be educated about it

 

Thanks for the posted replies links and help extended

I will study them

 

[vartanUSA]

I listened to some more tamzara from U tube

I found some more interpretations from Turks and they all sound as if they own this "halay"

klarınet

bağlama saz

here ıs a Turkısh wedding in Urfa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4XTssOXCs8

balıkesir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZkiUagr1I the drum here doesnit sound as a 9/8 to me

 

and below ıs really the worst ınterpretation by some greek players ın Mezzo Mezzo club in Astoria Queens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MERCOHASO48

 

 

 

 

here is some fantastic play by Frounjian

 

 

[hagopn]

I listened to some more tamzara from U tube

I found some more interpretations from Turks and they all sound as if they own this "halay"

klarınet

bağlama saz

here ıs a Turkısh wedding in Urfa

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4XTssOXCs8

balıkesir

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miZkiUagr1I the drum here doesnit sound as a 9/8 to me

 

and below ıs really the worst ınterpretation by some greek players ın Mezzo Mezzo club in Astoria Queens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MERCOHASO48

 

 

 

 

here is some fantastic play by Frounjian

 

So keyboard/drum machine "Nintendo" Tamzara is more appreciated than 7 piece band. LOL

 

As I HAVE ALREADY INDICATED ABOVE, there are collections of Tamzara and other odd meter dances by Spiridon Melikian, a student of Komitas. He's the best source, if you can find his publish material, for Tamzara. I can scan them and sent them to you if you wish.