Arpa Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 From Turchunland With (No) Love. ?? Yeah, yeah. We love you too. See first highlight. Where does he get the idea that our music and theirs are “similar”? What kind of music? The ones that feature the oud and dumbek? Then the outpouring of “love”, when the glove comes off. See second highlight. “our ultra-nationalist nuts will go crazier than ever…” Who are those “nuts”? Hamid, Talaat and Enver resurrected to finish the job? A threat is a threat, a blackmail is as black, no matter how one tries to soften and whiten it. ====== An open letter to the Armenian Diaspora TDN An open letter to the Armenian Diaspora Thursday, October 18, 2007 If we will start listening to your narrative, that will not be because we are pushed into a corner by the politics of a powerful lobby, but because our hearts are touched by the memoirs of a terrible tragedy Mustafa AKYOL Dear all, A few days ago a new friend of mine who happens to be an American Armenian played some beautiful songs for me that come from the deepest roots of her ethnic tradition. While I enjoyed the numinous rhythms of that magnetic Armenian music, I realized how similar they were to the tunes of the Turkish classical music that I have grown up hearing. `Despite all the political warfare,' I said to myself, `alas, look how similar we are.' I actually have a similar feeling when I drive along the magnificent mosques and palaces of Istanbul, some of which were built by Armenian architects - men in fez who devoutly worshipped Christ and proudly served the Sultan. Well, we were the children of the same empire, weren't we? We actually lived side by side as good neighbors for centuries until the modern virus called `nationalism' descended upon us. And then hell broke loose. A war of two narratives: I know what you think about that hell, especially about its most horrific episode, the one that took place in the year 1915. Your grandmothers must have told you about the plunderers, killers and rapists who attacked them and countless fellow Armenians. You call the whole tragedy `the Armenian Genocide' and try to convince the parliaments of the world to accept that definition. You also think, I presume, that we Turks are monsters who not only committed that horrible crime, but also refuse to take responsibility for it even after nearly a century. This is how you see history and the present moment, right? Well, as a Turk, let me say that I understand you. Because I see that you sincerely believe in the accuracy of the historical narrative that you were raised on. How else could you have responded to that? However, please note that there is another narrative about the tragedy of 1915, and that is what we Turks have been raised on. Our grandmothers told us that Armenians of the time collaborated with the Russian invaders and started to kill our people. Then, the narrative goes, our people started to kill the Armenians in order to both to protect themselves and to take revenge. `They killed us and so we killed them' is the summary of what 99 percent of the Turks know and think about what you call genocide. And just like you do, they sincerely believe in the accuracy of their historical narrative. So there are two different accounts of what really happened in 1915. I know that in the Western academic world your narrative has gained much more support, but there are serious non-Turkish scholars who tend to agree with the Turkish version, too. When I read the works of professor Guenter Lewy recently, for example, I was convinced that what my grandmother told me was really true. Of course I am no expert on the issue. I don't have enough knowledge to decide whether the truth lies in your narrative, in our narrative, or somewhere in between. But I am open to learning more and reconsidering my position. `Follow the evidence,' one of my core principles reads, `wherever it may lead.' And, believe me, that there are so many people in Turkey who think the same way. Pushing the wrong way: Now since we are getting to know each other, let me be a bit more blunt and take on what you have just done by convincing the U.S. Congress to pass a resolution on `the Armenian Genocide.' If you think that acts like these will push us Turks to be more self-critical and initiate an internal discussion that will lead us to consider your narrative about 1915, you are daydreaming. The reality is quite the contrary. Foreign pressure will make Turkish society only more reactionary. Grounds for internal discussion will vanish. Moreover, our ultra-nationalist nuts will go crazier than ever. Their most militant ones might well target, once again, liberal intellectuals and our Armenian citizens. You are simply fuelling the fire. The leaders of Turkey's Armenian community, including Patriarch Mesrob Mutafyan II, have been warning you about these dangers and urging you to stop playing this resolution game. But sadly, you don't ever listen to them. You accuse them for lacking courage and having a defeatist psychology. But how do you know that you yourselves are not the victims of another psychology - that of the diaspora? Social scientists repeatedly say that diaspora communities tend to go fanatic. Have you ever considered taking a hint? If you would like to hear some friendly advice, here it is: If you really want to see more Turks reflecting on your narrative about the tragedy of 1915, initiate a genuine dialogue. Try to convince not Mrs. Pelosi and her colleagues, but us, the Turks. Write more books and articles, create better movies and Web sites, and organize fair conferences and seminars telling us about your story. And do these not as propaganda tools against the Turks, but as communication efforts toward them. Convey your message calmly, in other words, and it will be heard. But don't try to impose it onto us. We are not a nation of monsters, but we do have a stubborn side. When foreigners start to dictate our history to us, we tend to revert back to our grandmothers' stories. And if we will start listening to your narrative, that will not be because we are pushed into a corner by the politics of a powerful lobby, but because our hearts are touched by the memoirs of a terrible tragedy. Sincerely, Mustafa Akyol A fellow Anatolian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I read this letter in the early morning and I thought about putting it in the children forum but we don't have one, because even a 10 years old kid would have reasoned better than this so called kind hearted person. The second best I thought may be the humour forum because I couldn't stop laughing at the naivety of the letter writer or maybe the lack of it, since this seems to me is nothing but soft AG denial disguised as friendly and full of threats if you don't see as I see mentality. First we didn't live side by side as good neighbours but master and slaves, we lived as providers of food, government administerators, Doctors, musicians, accountants, architects, bridge builders, art, ect. as second class no third class citizens with heavy taxes. Second the story of the grandmothers respectively, but he fails to mention the countless turk grandmothers telling stories which agrees with the stories of Armenian grandmothers. Maybe he should read the recent books by turkish citizens about those stories where turkish grandmothers talk about it with a whispering voice so that the ear of the government does not hear it. My friend mustafa shamelessly recites the story of Genocide according to the textbooks of the government. Hey mustafa if you truly believe that those stories told by your grandmother were true why the government does not allow the discussion freely without punishment between the turks themselves. Third there are no two accounts, it's gaining support by the western world because of it's accuracy believe me no country will support us if it were not true, even all the congressmen who voted against the resolution admitted that Genocide occured. MR. mustafa we waited long enough for you to come to terms with your own history that's 92 years and how long do you want us to wait so that you may consider free discussion of this issue in your country? You have only yourself to blame if Armenians are pushing this too hard. Mustafa you are the one who is daydreaming if you think that you will soften up our resolve and determination for justice, before you lecture us about understanding you fix your own disease with your nationalist cowards. Fourth put your advice where your mouth is and instead of talking about threats and doomsday if we don't forget this, you tell your goverment to implement free speech about AG. If you are looking for honest dialogue start with one and get rid of that BS that 99% of your society is in denial, let them all express their opinions freely without reprecussions than we will see if it's 99% or not. Fifth you don't need our grandmothers narratives in order to be touched by it, you go ask your own grandmother(s) but honesty is a must here then you will know the truth. But then again I don't think that you are interested with the truth but the denial of it. Because I'm sure your grandmother told you the truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 Mustafa AKYOL Dear all, A few days ago a new friend of mine who happens to be an American Armenian played some beautiful songs for me that come from the deepest roots of her ethnic tradition. While I enjoyed the numinous rhythms of that magnetic Armenian music, I realized how similar they were to the tunes of the Turkish classical music that I have grown up hearing. `Despite all the political warfare,' I said to myself, `alas, look how similar we are.' I actually have a similar feeling when I drive along the magnificent mosques and palaces of Istanbul, some of which were built by Armenian architects - men in fez who devoutly worshipped Christ and proudly served the Sultan. Well, we were the children of the same empire, weren't we? We actually lived side by side as good neighbors for centuries until the modern virus called `nationalism' descended upon us. And then hell broke loose. A war of two narratives: I know what you think about that hell, especially about its most horrific episode, the one that took place in the year 1915. Your grandmothers must have told you about the plunderers, killers and rapists who attacked them and countless fellow Armenians. You call the whole tragedy `the Armenian Genocide' and try to convince the parliaments of the world to accept that definition. You also think, I presume, that we Turks are monsters who not only committed that horrible crime, but also refuse to take responsibility for it even after nearly a century. This is how you see history and the present moment, right? Well, as a Turk, let me say that I understand you. Because I see that you sincerely believe in the accuracy of the historical narrative that you were raised on. How else could you have responded to that? However, please note that there is another narrative about the tragedy of 1915, and that is what we Turks have been raised on. Our grandmothers told us that Armenians of the time collaborated with the Russian invaders and started to kill our people. Then, the narrative goes, our people started to kill the Armenians in order to both to protect themselves and to take revenge. `They killed us and so we killed them' is the summary of what 99 percent of the Turks know and think about what you call genocide. And just like you do, they sincerely believe in the accuracy of their historical narrative. So there are two different accounts of what really happened in 1915. I know that in the Western academic world your narrative has gained much more support, but there are serious non-Turkish scholars who tend to agree with the Turkish version, too. When I read the works of professor Guenter Lewy recently, for example, I was convinced that what my grandmother told me was really true. Of course I am no expert on the issue. I don't have enough knowledge to decide whether the truth lies in your narrative, in our narrative, or somewhere in between. But I am open to learning more and reconsidering my position. `Follow the evidence,' one of my core principles reads, `wherever it may lead.' And, believe me, that there are so many people in Turkey who think the same way. Pushing the wrong way: Now since we are getting to know each other, let me be a bit more blunt and take on what you have just done by convincing the U.S. Congress to pass a resolution on `the Armenian Genocide.' If you think that acts like these will push us Turks to be more self-critical and initiate an internal discussion that will lead us to consider your narrative about 1915, you are daydreaming. The reality is quite the contrary. Foreign pressure will make Turkish society only more reactionary. Grounds for internal discussion will vanish. Moreover, our ultra-nationalist nuts will go crazier than ever. Their most militant ones might well target, once again, liberal intellectuals and our Armenian citizens. You are simply fuelling the fire. The leaders of Turkey's Armenian community, including Patriarch Mesrob Mutafyan II, have been warning you about these dangers and urging you to stop playing this resolution game. But sadly, you don't ever listen to them. You accuse them for lacking courage and having a defeatist psychology. But how do you know that you yourselves are not the victims of another psychology - that of the diaspora? Social scientists repeatedly say that diaspora communities tend to go fanatic. Have you ever considered taking a hint? If you would like to hear some friendly advice, here it is: If you really want to see more Turks reflecting on your narrative about the tragedy of 1915, initiate a genuine dialogue. Try to convince not Mrs. Pelosi and her colleagues, but us, the Turks. Write more books and articles, create better movies and Web sites, and organize fair conferences and seminars telling us about your story. And do these not as propaganda tools against the Turks, but as communication efforts toward them. Convey your message calmly, in other words, and it will be heard. But don't try to impose it onto us. We are not a nation of monsters, but we do have a stubborn side. When foreigners start to dictate our history to us, we tend to revert back to our grandmothers' stories. And if we will start listening to your narrative, that will not be because we are pushed into a corner by the politics of a powerful lobby, but because our hearts are touched by the memoirs of a terrible tragedy. Sincerely, Mustafa Akyol A fellow Anatolian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 An interesting post.At timers I also questioned the Diaspora tactics as well. Would like to hear your views guys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamavor Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 I wonder when exactly Turks have been good neighbors. Good neighbor in the way Turks understand is someone who is wearing a fez and serving the sultan. Another gem was the "Turkish classical music"!!! What? Classic and Turkish in one sentence does not make sense at all. Or maybe he meant the "music" played by his ancestors on one string firmly held in one hand and the other end between the teeth, punching with the other hand and whatever sounds are produced is called music! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1492 Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 An interesting post.At timers I also questioned the Diaspora tactics as well. Would like to hear your views guys My view is that everything that guy said was bullcacka. "write more books..movies"...that's his answer? Armenians have to be patient with the Turks? We have to convince them? C'mon, it hs been 92 years. There's a reason western scholars side with the "Armenian version" : IT HSTORICAL FACT backed up by many "books and movies" This guy is using an old Turkish tactic of looking like the "nice guy". This is just another way to prolong justice and white wash Turkey's sordid pass. Armenians need not try to help make Turks understand their past; Armenians need to work to bring Turkey to justice...Turks will never be able to do it on there own due to there instiutionalized denialism. In my opinion, the only way Turkey will come to terms with the Armenian genocide is if the Turkish State is torn down paving the way for a new and enlightened Turkish state. Until that happens, Armenians owe nothing to turkey except our indignation to sentiments posted in that denialist article printed above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted October 19, 2007 Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) Mass genocide flowers. Same old kaka, only this one is gift wrapped. Edited October 19, 2007 by Avo47 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpa Posted October 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2007 (edited) I don't blame Armat for not rcognizing this post. I deliverately chose the Subject Topic of Diaspora since the letter is directed to the Diaspora and I deliberately used ambiguous subject title so as to not attract parasites the like of the that Mustafa, musakka. Shoud we merge them so some comments will not go unnoticed? Plus, when that idiot invokes (classical? Huh? Is he talking about allahouekber?)"music", he must be referring to that so called diasporan "armenian" dumbek garbage. Edited October 19, 2007 by Arpa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armat Posted October 20, 2007 Report Share Posted October 20, 2007 I don't blame Armat for not rcognizing this post. I deliverately chose the Subject Topic of Diaspora since the letter is directed to the Diaspora and I deliberately used ambiguous subject title so as to not attract parasites the like of the that Mustafa, musakka. Shoud we merge them so some comments will not go unnoticed? Plus, when that idiot invokes (classical? Huh? Is he talking about allahouekber?)"music", he must be referring to that so called diasporan "armenian" dumbek garbage. Arpa We know what happened but in Turkey I assume (I can't be sure 100%) ignorance level is profound and with section 301 in place basically AG is a taboo so in the end result don't you think Hrant Dink's comment. Armenian's being Turks Doctor and Vise versa makes sense? The letter is honest as how Turks think about this issue and it is obvious Diaspora thinks otherwise.It is estimated 70-100K illigal Armenians working in Turkey in addition to Armenian Turks so we should be concern about their safety? What do we really want! Apology?Money?Land? all three? Not going to happen! Lets be real Armenia with 3.5 million people verses Turkey 80 million with the latest military hardware and 5th largest army in the world.What do you think we will get with out unrealistic demands. I say we better find alternative approach.We have no choice! Obviously whatever we have been doing last 92 years is not working... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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