oorenk Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) voghchuyner! The 1st issue of OOrenk bilingual (armenian and english) book series, which explores various armenian communities around the world, is finally LIVE! It took us a while to complete, but now it's something that we can proud of. it really is beautiful, informative and fun: meaning we're not full of ourselves nor do we waste your time by writing about celebrities and other such fluff. We really worked hard on this one and covered a lot of important topics that are neglected in media (especially armenian press). Please check out OOrenk.com for more details. Oh, and make sure to check "Amelia's Journal" in "extras" for an interesting/controversial essay on the 1915 Armenian Genocide. Thank you! :::we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves::: Edited August 23, 2007 by oorenk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 23, 2007 Report Share Posted August 23, 2007 (edited) voghchuyner! The 1st issue of OOrenk bilingual (armenian and english) book series, which explores various armenian communities around the world, is finally LIVE! It took us a while to complete, but now it's something that we can proud of. it really is beautiful, informative and fun: meaning we're not full of ourselves nor do we waste your time by writing about celebrities and other such fluff. We really worked hard on this one and covered a lot of important topics that are neglected in media (especially armenian press). Please check out OOrenk.com for more details. Oh, and make sure to check "Amelia's Journal" in "extras" for an interesting/controversial essay on the 1915 Armenian Genocide. Thank you! :::we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves::: Nice article on San Francisco's Armenian community! It really is the premier Armenian community of the U.S. I also like the banner from Aushwitz you've got: "Work Will Bring You Freedom". That is the big MYTH of the U.S.A... They've turned 99% of the population into wage slaves, as the 1% of the capitalists loan out their money to them on interest and they own the corporations the 99% toil for... I know that "goshgagar" the article is talking about! Very nice guy active in the community! I also appreciated the comparison of public space in Northern California (particularly the S.F. Bay Area) to Southern California. Having lived in both parts of California for long periods of time, I've come to conclude that Southern California is a corporate dystopia, with barely any public space. (The only real sizeable public space in Los Angeles city is Griffith Park which was donated by a man in the late 1890s... And I can't really compare Griffith Park's dry & dusty trails to the beauty of Marin Headlands just north of the Golden Gate bridge...) Anyway... Well done magazine! "Work To Shop to Work" --- nice... (that's life in Los Angeles and American consumer culture in a nutshell) Buy things you don't need with money you don't have to impress people you don't know. P.S. The following in your article is misleading: “Do you guys know any working class Armenians?” For a few seconds one could only hear the children playing. While there might not be unskilled Armenian laborers, there is an Armenian working class -- these include lawyers, high-tech workers, and educators, among others. So I guess by "working class" you meant unskilled laborer. Edited August 24, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oorenk Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 thank you for your positive review. if you can, check it out in print - it's beautiful. we use the traditional definition for "working class" - pretty much meaning "order takers," people who do what they are told in return for a wage: taxi drivers, clerks, mechanics (ones who don't own the shop), etc. it can be skilled or unskilled. usually, this refers to people in the lower socio-economic bracket. lawyers, and educators are usually considered middle class since they have some leeway in determining how to do their job... although nowadays most of them pretty much do as they are told by the higher ups also, so i see your point. some of my lawyer friends seem to be just about as miserable and powerless as some of my working class friends... i'll try to bring this up (re-defining “class”) when we start working on the 2nd issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 24, 2007 Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 (edited) Midway into the conversation, we realized that this group of internally integrated, fairly affluent professionals was representative of the majority of Armenians in this area. For us this was a bit surreal. In LA, we are surrounded by a variety of Armenians... I speak from experience in living many years in both the S.F. and L.A. Armenian communities when I say... The reason you found San Francisco Armenians to be more pleasant and living a higher quality of life is that you interviewed mostly Diasporan Armenians (all of the people in the pictures in the article are diasporan Armenians -- except maybe the 17 year old guy who isn't familiar to me); San Francisco's ratio of Armenians from Armenia to the total Armenian population there is not as high as it is in Los Angeles (which turns out to be beneficial to SF Armenians -- and I would say to San Franciscanites in general). Hence, in Los Angeles, Diasporan Armenians are "over shadowed" and "over looked" by the mostly noisy, rude, and involved-in-illegal-activity Armenians from Armenia, who "stand out" more in the crowd since they call attention to themselves. In turn, these Hayasdantsis have had a negative effect upon the local Diasporan Armenians of Los Angeles, since the name of the Armenians in general has been tarnished not only among Americans, but among Diasporan Armenians. And for the first time, something unheard of is happening: Diasporan Armenians are feeling ashamed of being Armenian due to their association with Armenians from Armenian... And low morale is what destroys organizations; in this case, diasporan Armenian organizations in L.A. (The effects are less more so in the Valley, but particularly highlighted in Glendale and Hollywood and L.A.) In comparison, the Armenians of San Francisco are mostly Diasporan Armenians: either immigrants from around the 70s from Lebanon, Syria, Iraq, and Iran, or third generation American-Armenians whose grandparents came during the genocide. You'll still find those same types of problematic Armenian youth from Armenia in San Francisco; but given their low numbers and sparse locations where they live, you don't notice them as you do in Glendale or Hollywood where there is a high concentration of them. (They also stay away from Armenian organizations -- as they do in L.A. -- and they have their own Etchmiadznagan church that most of the diasporan Armenians don't attend.) So the community there is divided; and the demographics of division are quite obvious. The Los Angeles Armenian community hasn't been the same ever since the 1990s when that very enormous wave of immigrants from Armenia, whose "goghakan"/"koghakan" (mafia) culture and corresponding antisocial activities has tarnished the name of Armenians both externally and internally (possibly irreversibly). Given that the wave of immigration from Armenia has calmed, I'm hopeful that the S.F., Toronto, Montreal, and Lebanese diasporan Armenian communities won't suffer from this contamination... Edited August 24, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oorenk Posted August 24, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 24, 2007 (edited) Wow, Shahan, my brother, there seems to be a lot of anger in your message. i hope it’s not coming from personal experience of having been victimized in any way. if that’s the case, please let it out – talk to a friend, an elder, post it here, something – i think it will make you feel better once you get it off your chest. I mean, when i read, "that very enormous wave of immigrants" and "suffer from this contamination" - I was afraid you were about to follow it up with "vermin" and exclaim your plans for another "Final Solution" – i am not joking, i am worried about you. i think reading our book will benefit you greatly, because this is one of the issues that we address in many of the pages – in places explicitly, in places implicitly (and as usual, to catch the implicit, one has to read with the intention of understanding another’s viewpoint, rather than focusing on finding ways to reinforce what one already believes). after you are done reading, i will gladly discus this topic with you. If, by any chance, you have $ problems and can't purchase the book, please, please email us "My name is Shahan, give me a free download please," and we will gladly give you a free download of the whole book. (which applies to everyone, by the way) much love astghik Edited August 24, 2007 by oorenk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I feel sorry for you Shahan, I really do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) i hope it’s not coming from personal experience of having been victimized in any way. Nope. I mean, when i read, "that very enormous wave of immigrants" and "suffer from this contamination" - I was afraid you were about to follow it up with "vermin" and exclaim your plans for another "Final Solution" – They're already killing each other anyways, and are insignificant in the grand scheme of things -- they were imported to the U.S. and handed out free welfare for a reason; it is simply part of the program of the U.S.A. i am not joking, i am worried about you. I'm doing very well; no need to worry... i think reading our book will benefit you greatly, because this is one of the issues that we address in many of the pages – in places explicitly, in places implicitly (and as usual, to catch the implicit, one has to read with the intention of understanding another’s viewpoint, rather than focusing on finding ways to reinforce what one already believes). after you are done reading, i will gladly discus this topic with you. There's nothing to discuss or understand another's viewpoint. They are what they are; personal experiences over a wide range of training set trumps anything that a person reads. I have more experience than you in the matter of S.F. vs L.A. Armenian communities; I've lived it -- I don't need a magazine to tell me the reality... I don't wish to understand the psyche of hayasdantsi koghakans or other villagers brought to the U.S. from Armenia; indeed, there's more than a necessary amount of neural connections devoted to understanding them and there's nothing of value to learn there that will be beneficial to someone to put it bluntly. If, by any chance, you have $ problems and can't purchase the book, please, please email us "My name is Shahan, give me a free download please," and we will gladly give you a free download of the whole book. (which applies to everyone, by the way) That won't be necessary dear. Thanks for the thought though. Edited August 25, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I feel sorry for you Shahan, I really do. Nice come back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Shahan, your second post in this thread does not help the Armenians in the U.S. one bit. On the contrary, it further divides us. Such hatred towards your fellow Armenians is very sad to witness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 voghchuyner! Hello Astghik! Welcome! I liked your website at first glance. Very creative and modern. I'll read more in a couple of hours when I have the time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Nice come back If you think about it, that was a great comeback. But it wasn't a comeback, I really do feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 If you think about it, that was a great comeback. But it wasn't a comeback, I really do feel sorry for you. Learn to come to terms with reality instead of "feeling sorry" for me. I'm doing quite well in life... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yervant1 Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 I'm doing quite well in life... Thanks to whom or what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ED Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Thanks to whom or what? to Artificial intelligence Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boghos Posted August 25, 2007 Report Share Posted August 25, 2007 Shahan is the resident cry baby.Pay him no heed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVO Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Shahan the reality is that you're full of hate, and I see no reason why I should waste my time and energy on you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ani Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Wow, Shahan, my brother, there seems to be a lot of anger in your message. i hope it’s not coming from personal experience of having been victimized in any way. if that’s the case, please let it out – talk to a friend, an elder, post it here, something – i think it will make you feel better once you get it off your chest. I mean, when i read, "that very enormous wave of immigrants" and "suffer from this contamination" - I was afraid you were about to follow it up with "vermin" and exclaim your plans for another "Final Solution" – i am not joking, i am worried about you. i think reading our book will benefit you greatly, because this is one of the issues that we address in many of the pages – in places explicitly, in places implicitly (and as usual, to catch the implicit, one has to read with the intention of understanding another’s viewpoint, rather than focusing on finding ways to reinforce what one already believes). after you are done reading, i will gladly discus this topic with you. If, by any chance, you have $ problems and can't purchase the book, please, please email us "My name is Shahan, give me a free download please," and we will gladly give you a free download of the whole book. (which applies to everyone, by the way) much love astghik He did let it out in several threads...Its hopeless ...He doesnt get any better... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Shahan the reality is that you're full of hate, and I see no reason why I should waste my time and energy on you. Oh yeah? So I'm "full of hate" when I write about my experiences? Perhaps they are true? Does it have to be that I'm "full of hate" to write the truth? No one is asking you to spend time or energy "on me"; that is entirely your personal choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 (edited) [d] Edited August 26, 2007 by Shahan Araradian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shahan Araradian Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Shahan, your second post in this thread does not help the Armenians in the U.S. one bit. On the contrary, it further divides us. Such hatred towards your fellow Armenians is very sad to witness. Just giving some background to oorenk's article... I don't intend to "divide" nor "unite" us. Just writing about things the way they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MosJan Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 voghchuyner! The 1st issue of OOrenk bilingual (armenian and english) book series, which explores various armenian communities around the world, is finally LIVE! It took us a while to complete, but now it's something that we can proud of. it really is beautiful, informative and fun: meaning we're not full of ourselves nor do we waste your time by writing about celebrities and other such fluff. We really worked hard on this one and covered a lot of important topics that are neglected in media (especially armenian press). Please check out OOrenk.com for more details. Oh, and make sure to check "Amelia's Journal" in "extras" for an interesting/controversial essay on the 1915 Armenian Genocide. Thank you! :::we aim to expand worlds without being full of ourselves::: Astghik Jan Welcome to HyeForum I wish the best for you and for your project / OOrenk.com MOvses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Hey I want to jump on the bandwagon and add one more "Shahan is" post!!!! As Shahan has said over and over, the US is made of "the ruling class" (very small percentage) and the "brainwashed victims". Since he is not part of the ruling class, we can only conclude he considers himself one of the victims. Although he claims he has "woken up", that doesn't change what he is (has to be based on his own dichotomy that he keeps repeating over and over and over and over). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sip Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Oorenk, welcome to the forum ... I really liked the "anti-copyright" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anoushik Posted August 26, 2007 Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 Just giving some background to oorenk's article... I don't intend to "divide" nor "unite" us. Just writing about things the way they are. There's the problem then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oorenk Posted August 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 26, 2007 thank you so much for all the warm welcomes – clearly, hospitality IS still one of our greatest suits. Are these topics common in the threads here? it's eerie , but the "Unity" issue is another one that we addressed - explicitly... our take is a bit different than the ones i've heard so far... so i guess, considering the way that most people read things (to find ways to confirm their own beliefs), we will end up pleasing no one... maybe just a few. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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